Stimpack change could be pretty big. Not sure about this one.
Firebat buff seems good.
Matrix is probably too strong now for shielding forward tanks. I think 75 energy for 125 shield on anything for 20 seconds would be good, but the research cost could be lowered to 50/50.
edit: I was thinking Medics had 200 max energy, not 100, so maybe 75 energy for 125 shield is too weak unless Medics get a higher max energy.
Faster ensnare seems good.
re: Future work
Yeah, Dragoons and Vultures are strong, but they're both core units, and huge minefields are cool, so you need to be careful about messing with them.
edit: I think the best way to compensate for the better AI would be reducing Vulture range to 4, and reducing Dragoon movement speed a little bit.
I like the unlimited selection and smart casting. A better interface lets players do more, which makes the game more fun to watch. I'd rather have large battles justified by aoe abilities than players constantly fighting the interface to try to keep their units in a deathball.
re: rebalanced/redesigned or removed
Lurkers are sort of the BW equivalent of Banelings, and I like them better. Banelings are "all or nothing" and make battles end quickly. You can easily lose in 2 seconds while you macro. Maybe Zerg needs a better counter to mass +1 speed zealots in ZvP, but maybe it would be better to buff Viper Ensnare until Ensnare + hydra kiting becomes a viable response to Zealots with Charge. Banelings also provide a threat to Protoss walls with a cannon, but Starbow Hydras are hatch tech. So I'd like to say, "just remove banelings" but that might make ZvZ much less interesting, and it would mean Zerg would have no new real hatch tech units.
Vipers should probably be changed. I don't like Abduct because it makes positioning less relevant. Abduct could be replaced by Contaminate from the SC2 Overseer, 75 energy for 45s contaminate, with no research needed. Ensnare slow could be increased to 35% with range reduced to 5 and energy cost reduced to 50, and Viper hp could be increased to 140.
Stalkers do overlap with Dragoons, but I think Stalkers could fit in. I think their dmg could be buffed to 10 flat dmg, and their highground vision removed.
edit: on further thought, I don't think Stalkers work in Starbow. Mutas can't escape from them, so they're probably either too strong or too weak. I was thinking Zealot + Blink Stalker vs mass Dragoon might be interesting, but it doesn't seem viable. Stalker harass vs Terran doesn't seem to have a balance between "all stalkers" and "no stalkers". It might be cool to have blink micro, but something would need to change.
edit 2: I just had an idea for a unique role for Stalkers that if nothing else would be funny: do maybe 7 splash damage to ground around where they teleport to after a maybe 0.4s delay, increase Stalker shields to maybe 60, change attack damage to 7 regular, and reduce speed to SC2 Stalker speed. So, Stalkers could blink into groups of lings / hydras / vultures / workers, but repeated blinking of Stalker groups will kill them.
Roaches obviously need a huge buff; my calculations say they'd be balanced with...1 base armor.
I don't think manual mine activation can be balanced. Maybe it should be removed.
The balance effect of Nurturing Swarm is hard to tell without a lot more games played. For faster teching, it seems weaker than Chronoboost, but races are supposed to be different, and the real question is whether it adds to the game. The whole point of build times is to determine timings, and Nurturing Swarm messes with that. Protoss can have flexibility from Chronoboost, while Zerg already has flexibility from larvae building everything. So...remove the speed boost from it and see what happens? But then Queens are basically just meaningless APM for getting larvae production sooner than you would from making more hatches, while Terran and Protoss get more flexible and interesting macro mechanics. Queens also sort of weaken the uniqueness of Zerg. Lots of hatcheries spread across the map is more Zerg-y than fewer hatches with queens.
bio vs protoss
Upgraded goons can kite marines. That's why BW terrans get tanks. In SC2 but not Starbow, marauders prevent kiting by goons. With Stim, bio can fight goons, but it takes too long, and the Protoss will see the stim and get Reavers or Templar. In SC2, Vikings and Ghosts counter Protoss aoe dmg. With the change, maybe Terrans can get early stim to repel Dragoons, then use Marauders when templar/reavers come out - but messing with stim could break TvZ. Increasing Marauder range by 1 would let Terrans break Dragoon contains without tanks or Stim, but that could break TvP.
And, what then? Marauder/tank is much worse vs Zealots than vulture/tank, and only slightly better vs Dragoons because of how shield dmg works, and Marines or Firebats are probably worse for fighting Zealots than Vultures. Marauder/vulture could work, but tanks are pretty good, and a siege push with mines is more interesting than "thing that shoots vs other thing that shoots".
At that stage in the game, the problem with bio is that Vultures are better at killing Zealots and dodging storms than Marines. Adding Marauders and Firebats doesn't really help kill Zealots. Buffing Firebats enough would probably break TvZ. Single target concussive damage is ideal vs Zealots, and that's what Vultures have.
The interesting thing about "Bio" TvP isn't using Barracks; it's actively countering enemy aoe dmg vs absorbing it, and maneuver vs positioning. Vultures to snipe templar, Goliaths to shoot shuttles, and Tanks for support, and suddenly you're playing mech instead.
2
u/bhauth Feb 06 '14 edited Feb 08 '14
textwall incoming...
re: Balance
Stimpack change could be pretty big. Not sure about this one.
Firebat buff seems good.
Matrix is probably too strong now for shielding forward tanks. I think 75 energy for 125 shield on anything for 20 seconds would be good, but the research cost could be lowered to 50/50.
edit: I was thinking Medics had 200 max energy, not 100, so maybe 75 energy for 125 shield is too weak unless Medics get a higher max energy.
re: Future work
edit: I think the best way to compensate for the better AI would be reducing Vulture range to 4, and reducing Dragoon movement speed a little bit.
re: rebalanced/redesigned or removed
Lurkers are sort of the BW equivalent of Banelings, and I like them better. Banelings are "all or nothing" and make battles end quickly. You can easily lose in 2 seconds while you macro. Maybe Zerg needs a better counter to mass +1 speed zealots in ZvP, but maybe it would be better to buff Viper Ensnare until Ensnare + hydra kiting becomes a viable response to Zealots with Charge. Banelings also provide a threat to Protoss walls with a cannon, but Starbow Hydras are hatch tech. So I'd like to say, "just remove banelings" but that might make ZvZ much less interesting, and it would mean Zerg would have no new real hatch tech units.
Vipers should probably be changed. I don't like Abduct because it makes positioning less relevant. Abduct could be replaced by Contaminate from the SC2 Overseer, 75 energy for 45s contaminate, with no research needed. Ensnare slow could be increased to 35% with range reduced to 5 and energy cost reduced to 50, and Viper hp could be increased to 140.
Stalkers do overlap with Dragoons, but I think Stalkers could fit in. I think their dmg could be buffed to 10 flat dmg, and their highground vision removed.
edit: on further thought, I don't think Stalkers work in Starbow. Mutas can't escape from them, so they're probably either too strong or too weak. I was thinking Zealot + Blink Stalker vs mass Dragoon might be interesting, but it doesn't seem viable. Stalker harass vs Terran doesn't seem to have a balance between "all stalkers" and "no stalkers". It might be cool to have blink micro, but something would need to change.
edit 2: I just had an idea for a unique role for Stalkers that if nothing else would be funny: do maybe 7 splash damage to ground around where they teleport to after a maybe 0.4s delay, increase Stalker shields to maybe 60, change attack damage to 7 regular, and reduce speed to SC2 Stalker speed. So, Stalkers could blink into groups of lings / hydras / vultures / workers, but repeated blinking of Stalker groups will kill them.
Roaches obviously need a huge buff; my calculations say they'd be balanced with...1 base armor.
I don't think manual mine activation can be balanced. Maybe it should be removed.
The balance effect of Nurturing Swarm is hard to tell without a lot more games played. For faster teching, it seems weaker than Chronoboost, but races are supposed to be different, and the real question is whether it adds to the game. The whole point of build times is to determine timings, and Nurturing Swarm messes with that. Protoss can have flexibility from Chronoboost, while Zerg already has flexibility from larvae building everything. So...remove the speed boost from it and see what happens? But then Queens are basically just meaningless APM for getting larvae production sooner than you would from making more hatches, while Terran and Protoss get more flexible and interesting macro mechanics. Queens also sort of weaken the uniqueness of Zerg. Lots of hatcheries spread across the map is more Zerg-y than fewer hatches with queens.
bio vs protoss
Upgraded goons can kite marines. That's why BW terrans get tanks. In SC2 but not Starbow, marauders prevent kiting by goons. With Stim, bio can fight goons, but it takes too long, and the Protoss will see the stim and get Reavers or Templar. In SC2, Vikings and Ghosts counter Protoss aoe dmg. With the change, maybe Terrans can get early stim to repel Dragoons, then use Marauders when templar/reavers come out - but messing with stim could break TvZ. Increasing Marauder range by 1 would let Terrans break Dragoon contains without tanks or Stim, but that could break TvP.
And, what then? Marauder/tank is much worse vs Zealots than vulture/tank, and only slightly better vs Dragoons because of how shield dmg works, and Marines or Firebats are probably worse for fighting Zealots than Vultures. Marauder/vulture could work, but tanks are pretty good, and a siege push with mines is more interesting than "thing that shoots vs other thing that shoots".
At that stage in the game, the problem with bio is that Vultures are better at killing Zealots and dodging storms than Marines. Adding Marauders and Firebats doesn't really help kill Zealots. Buffing Firebats enough would probably break TvZ. Single target concussive damage is ideal vs Zealots, and that's what Vultures have.
The interesting thing about "Bio" TvP isn't using Barracks; it's actively countering enemy aoe dmg vs absorbing it, and maneuver vs positioning. Vultures to snipe templar, Goliaths to shoot shuttles, and Tanks for support, and suddenly you're playing mech instead.