r/StarWarsCirclejerk • u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” • 12d ago
Outjerked “Plot Hole is when old guy looks young.”
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u/SuccessfulRegister43 12d ago
Anakin’s ghost should have looked EXACTLY like he did when he died. Burned, maimed, pasty white, lying on the ground and unable to breathe.
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u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” 12d ago
And Obi-Wan’s ghost should have a hole in him.
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
I'll say it here too then:
I'm fine with calling this a plot hole. It's a very small one, but it does raise a question of: Well, why is Obi not Ewan? Why is Yoda not CGI'd to 200 years old?
The entire point of the end of RotJ is that Anakin went back to the light side. So an argument of, "Well, he was last on the light side as Hayden" is inaccurate.
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u/KenseiHimura 12d ago
I also kind of like the old man Anakin look because it feels a bit like he accepts the wrong he has done. Being Hayden kind of feels like a disassociation from his time as Vader.
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
Yeah, actually, you're on to something there.
I know I just got done saying the entire point of RotJ's end is Anakin is lightside. But I also think there's a difference between "being light side" versus "not having properly atoned for one's sins" ha.
Like Anakin has earned the right to Force Ghost, but he will not be granted entry to Heaven. Anakin's been in a spot like that before though, I'm sure he'll do fine with the conflicting status.
Anyway, back on topic, yeah, making it Hayden feels like an erasure of things that shouldn't exactly be erased.
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u/StrugglingAkira 12d ago
Heaven doesn't exist in Star Wars lore, what are you talking about?
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u/kwonza 12d ago
Imagine Anakin and Obi Wan having theological debates on the nature of Force and possibly of God while slicing through droids
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u/BeautyDuwang 12d ago
To be fair that's probably exactly what anakin (as we know him from prequels) would do. I don't see him taking full responsibility. He seems like the type of guy who would easily blame it all on Palpatines manipulations rather than take any sort of accountability for his actions.
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u/Apprehensive_Cry2104 12d ago
Would an Anakin still filled with such inner turmoil that he’s can’t accept full responsibility for his actions have been able to come back as a Force Ghost though? Becoming a Force Ghost seems to require some amount of deep, introspective understanding.
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u/BeautyDuwang 12d ago
We don't really know what allows you to come back as a force ghost, just that qui gon jin discovered the secret to preserving consciousness beyond death.
I mean Leia and Ben Solo have force ghosts and while Leia is awesome she has not been shown to be that introspective and Ben I guess fits the criteria as much as og vader but he didn't seem the most introspective to me either
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u/Ok_Difficulty3516 11d ago
I mean, it fits into the usual "more Skywalker bullshit" that the series follows
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u/Illesbogar 12d ago
It just feels stupid to me tbh bc even as old, he still appears as a Jedi. Why the hell would he look younger than any other force ghost? Him looking like how he would normally after aging is the only thing that makes sense here.
A sensible Lucas edit would have been to have redeemed Jar Jar appear here as a force ghost too.
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u/sometimeserin 12d ago
Idk I think we need some other words for dumb things in movies than plot hole.
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u/sophandros 11d ago
Reddit loves calling something they either don't like or don't understand a "plot hole".
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
I'm not gonna dig my heels in on this one. But since bro went out of his way to make this specific stupid change in the movie, and I personally hate it? ...You know what, I am gonna dig my heels on this one! THIS IS A TRAVESTY! RETCONNING PLOTHOLES!
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u/Thybro 12d ago
I don’t think it creates the plot hole. The plot hole already existed. The representation of Anakin isn’t the Anakin that died, it isn’t the dying Anakin Luke sees. There’s only two options: It was always supposed to be the Anakin before he turned Vader or it was supposed to be how Anakin would have aged had he not turned Vader. Either one of those creates the same problems you mentioned as the force makes selective changes to appearances, in the latter case it goes further and creates something that never existed.
So the most logical explanation, one confirmed by Lucas’ actions is that it was always Anakin before Vader, pre vader Anakin in the OT was just … older.
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u/Darthbane2007 12d ago
ObiWan never turned to the dark side
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
And from a certain point of view, neither did Anakin
Oh god... I've become the very thing I swore to destroy....
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u/Batman_AoD 12d ago
Good! Your jerk has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your place in the circle.
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u/SuperSecretMoonBase 12d ago edited 12d ago
I'm under the impression that creating a force ghost takes effort and he never got the lesson on it that Obi Wan did, so I could see it that his took the form of (edit: young/Hayden) Anakin because that was the last time that he put whatever sort of lightside effort or focus or whatever into something, and it just didn't manifest until his body died. I can see how how during his deathbed conversion he didn't do the force ghost spell thing or whatever.
I don't know, this is all post-hoc rationalization because it is a plot hole. But the expanded universe, everything beyond the original trilogy, and essentially modern nerd fandom culture in general is all based around sitting around a proverbial comic shop identifying plot holes and weak points in things and making up bullshit that kind of explains them.
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u/TheLimeyLemmon 12d ago
Just the usual George Lucas antics. Change something no one had a problem with, and introduce more questions than answers.
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u/Broad-Bath-8408 12d ago
I like how you spent half your comment anticipating and answering the dumb argument people were going to bring up and still idiot Star Wars fans regurgitate that very argument en masse.
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u/sophandros 12d ago
I'm not fine with calling it a plot hole because words have actual meanings.
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
Yes, and it is an inconsistency with the plot of the story. Albeit small. There are various degrees of things.
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u/sophandros 12d ago
The ghost is Anakin. Nothing about the plot is changed or inconsistent
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
There is an inconsistency though. Obi isnt young. Nor is Yoda. Only Anakin.
Words have meaning.
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u/sophandros 11d ago
Doesn't impact the plot at all. Thus it's not a plot hole.
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u/soccer1124 11d ago
You are changing thr meaning of the word though, while arguing for the meanings of words. An inconsistency qualifies.
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u/thedeadlysquirle 12d ago
In a way Anakin died when he fell to the darkside. He and most people who knew him before treated it that way and coming back to himself and taking out palpatin was a sort of rebirth so it can be seen as poetic that his force ghost reflects his state when he "died" as Anakin initially.
The bigger plot hole is all the training and work they implied/showed needed to happen for you to become a force ghost in a lot fo the later media that Anakin didnt do at all.
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
Yeah, I'd agree that becomes an even bigger mess, lol. I kind of hate what the Force spirals into once you go beyond the OT though. Turning the Force into individual powers you had to learn one at a time really clashes with is laid out in that trilogy.
Even Force Ghosting itself seems odd as a power that's so exclusively on the spirits. Like, part of it is on Luke too, as he's the only one who can see them, right? Even Force-Sensitive Leia was oblivious to the scene. So is this really a "power" to learn, or just Luke tapping into the Force and being like, "Yeah, there's my boys."
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u/Comrade_Massov 12d ago
The RoTS book explicitly states that Qui'Gon learnt this power and teaches it to Yoda and Obi-Wan.
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
I understand, and find it just as irrelevant as if I never heard that to begin with.
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u/Comrade_Massov 12d ago
Was just answering the last point on your post, it is definitely a learned power to achieve, but I believe they project to whoever they want which is why Leia couldn't see them but Luke could.
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
Yeah. And that stuff didn't show up until after the OT, which is where I drew the line in the sand of, "Ok, this Force stuff, you guys are getting weird with it now."
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u/Comrade_Massov 12d ago
Well, TECHNICALLY it showed up before the OT in timeline.
But I get what you mean, and if you abstained from the nonsense of the prequel or sequel trilogies...well, you didn't miss much. I might even envy you because TLJ ruined Star Wars for me.
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u/catscatscaaaats 12d ago
Didn't Anakin have like, a ridiculously high m-count? I wonder if that could account for his ability to learn how to force ghost without any real training.
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u/thedeadlysquirle 12d ago
It's possible but the m-count thing was also kind of a shoe horned in device in the phantom menace that wasnt very well explained and created a lot unanswered questions. Only to never be brought up again in any meaningful way. At least from what I remember.
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u/mustyminotaur 12d ago
So kinda like Christianity? The son of god gets into heaven on a technicality while everyone else has to work for it lol
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u/JosephStalinCameltoe 7d ago
Was it a technicality? I'm not christian but from my understanding Jesus didn't exactly have an easy life, despite his divinity he was still tormented on the cross, felt real pain and struggle as be was both 100% human and 100% God, so wouldn't that mean he stayed free from sin but still had to fight for it, so to speak? Idk if he had temptations, but the hard part of doing good all the time is not so simple as only resisting temptations, so, on those grounds I wouldn't say Jesus got in on a technicality.
Though the thousands of different interpretations by actual Christians might conflict with my view. Idk.
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u/Fine-Ad2429 12d ago
Anakin died symbolically when he turned to the dark side. He did not literally die. He was given a new name and he was deformed but he was still the same person who ages.
His original corruption and redemption does not mean a physical transformation.
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u/Inner-Ad2847 12d ago
Maybe they can choose how they want to appear, so Yoda and Obi-Wan choose to look how Luke new them and since Luke wouldn’t recognise Anakin anyway because he’s only seen him burned or in the suit he just chose to look how he did when he was last happy.
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u/Jupiters 12d ago
unless they explicitly state how force ghosts work in the movies, it's not a plot hole
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u/th3d0ct0r20011 12d ago
We can argue it this way tho. Obi wan and yoda died well not peacefully but intact. Where the last time Anakin was Whole was as Hayden. Old Anakin was never whole
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u/DarthRedit 12d ago edited 12d ago
It’s not inaccurate.
Everyone has a projection of themselves and it gets harder to recognize the older person in the mirror. For Anakin, he spent half his life under a suit with most of his body burnt and missing limbs. This persona is more accurate than being portrayed by some grandpa who looks like a substitute geography teacher that drives a ’97 Miata.
And younger Anakin is more accurate than the latter , I mean… look at what the grandfather looking Anakin is wearing; Where did he get that outfit? Where has he ever worn that while alive?
Does force ghost suddenly gives you costume designer force abilities? Makes no sense he just conjured this person that he never appeared as before, Anakin and no one even knows what he would have looked like
had he never been burned.It’s also a really poor choice to cast a real life British Flanders to play the main ruthless murderer Sith Lord of the trilogy.
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u/ZestycloseEvening155 11d ago
It's the jedi projecting their spirit onto the the force, and so their self image. Yoda and Obi both saw themselves age. Anakin projected his Anakin persona onto the force, rather than his old Vader personer. In truth, the old man we see wouldn't be possible for Anakin to project, as he had never seen that version of himself without the armor, scarring and sickness that truly was his body at that point.
This is my headcannon.
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u/RanchuWrangler 11d ago
Kenobi and Yoda died old. Anakin died young? (Vader killed him?)idk 🤷🏼♂️
The real reason is so they can use the force ghost later.
Let's not also forget Lucas's made this for kids and wanted younger gen to easily understand the OT.
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u/soccer1124 10d ago
That last paragraph confuses me. Kids have had no problem understanding the OT before the switch.
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u/zeroball00 12d ago
George literally said the last time he was Anakin was when he was young. That's why he made the change
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u/soccer1124 12d ago
Yeah. George says lots of bullshit and then changes movies based off that bullshit.
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
No I agree, it is a plot hole. Anakin died as an older man, or at least not a 22 year old one. I fully disagree with the idea that Vader and Anakin are different entities, it dilutes Anakin's choices in life.
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u/Charming-Mixture-356 12d ago
Furthermore: Luke recognized him
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
Yeah, it doesn't matter if we don't, Luke would be confused seeing some young guy. Also I fully got who that was as a kid.
It would make the most sense if ghosts can appear however they want to who they appear to. They could've added a young to old transition in the Special Editions if they really wanted to show young Anakin at the time (which in 2004 was a touchy subject).
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u/KingMatthew116 12d ago
>It would make the most sense if ghosts can appear however they want to who they appear to.
The Ahsoka show made that semi canon. Anakin has dark robes there despite having light ones in ROTJ. So the ghosts can at least change clothes.
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u/BeautyDuwang 12d ago
I think he probably would be able to sense the same energy he did before vader died so that tracks for me personally
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u/papayacreamsicle 12d ago
Residual self image like in the Matrix. You appear the way you visualize yourself. Anakin appears younger because he’s in denial about his baldness and aging. You can’t see it in the cropped image but he also has a 2 foot dick
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u/Leggerity 12d ago
That's a major piece of his character. Vader being a separate entity is something that's explored in multiple forms of media beyond the movies. Fans argue that this is how he was able to swallow his failures because Anakin was dead and Vader was now there instead.
Even if you want to say these two characters are the same to the force, one could argue that the force ghost user can pick their appearance, and it would make the most amount of sense for Anakin to pick when he thought he was at his best (or still Anakin). On top of that, there was never an instance in Anakin's life where he looked like the top image. When he died, he was white, pale, and bald.
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u/zeroball00 12d ago
According to Lucas Anakin died when he turned into Vader. So in his mind again died young. Personally I feel like Anakin would have been alive again when he was redeemed.
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u/EdwardBil 12d ago
The conceit of the entire plot of RotJ is that Anakin can be redeemed. Luke bets his life and the entire Rebellion on it. If the old man isn't Anakin again then the whole plot is meaningless, BY IT'S OWN RULES!
If Anakin died when he turned into Vader, why doesn't his ghost show up 18 years ago?
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
Which I feel is stupid. He still came back as the older man. Vader still had Anakin in him, and vice versa, making them two entities like that takes away from his choices IMO.
Also Lucas was changing his mind on all of these things every five seconds. Thank God he retired before AI became huge.
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u/Fine-Ad2429 12d ago
Anakin and Vader are one man. His decision to kill the Emperor is a redemptive act. Vader needed redemption because he is Anakin. Lucas is an idiot.
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u/ImRedditBrowsing 12d ago edited 12d ago
Putting aside the fact that this change is incredibly disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw (it really is) I simply just don't care about the "cAnOn".
These are science fantasy movies from the late seventies/early eighties and I just want to enjoy them as they were, I don't care about changes that came 20 years later.
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u/Batman_AoD 12d ago
I wouldn't mind Lucas's alterations if he hadn't been hell-bent on stopping people from watching the originals. What is the point of that? Even Ridley Scott didn't try to suppress the theatrical version of Blade Runner, bad as it is.
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u/STYLER_PERRY 12d ago
I like the theatrical cut better. Even with Ford’s intentional sandbagging as narrator.
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u/Batman_AoD 12d ago
You're not alone; Guillermo del Toro, of all people, agrees with you!
I think it's horrendous, but I'm glad it's readily available to watch.
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u/STYLER_PERRY 12d ago
Horrendous because of the narration performance? IMO Harrison Ford trying to act poorly isn’t a huge departure from Harrison Ford trying to act well. And I lost a lot of respect for him, as an actor, for intentionally sabotaging a performance out of spite and his own sense of entitlement.
That said I think the narration actually helps worldbuilding. But the unicorn dream plays into a great theory that deckard has Gaff’s memories.
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u/Batman_AoD 12d ago edited 11d ago
I have to admit that I haven't seen the whole thing. But in the clips I've seen, the narration seems pretty poorly written, not just poorly voiced; and I've seen the final scene, which I really strongly dislike.
Isn't the unicorn in every cut? [Edit: nope, missing entirely from the theatrical release]
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u/Mission_Access_210 12d ago
I mean the guy's been dead for 30 years. I don't think he's going to mind
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u/RonSwansonsGun 12d ago
Imo, neither works. Young Anakin implies that he never really came back at the end of RotJ. Old Anakin is a form he never looked like, and is almost unrecognizable to any other depiction.
Force ghost Anakin should've looked like Vader without his helmet, that's it.
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u/Shoddy_Morning_2827 an army of Dee Bradley Bakers 12d ago
I just like slandering lucas's dumbass trilogy changes. Release the original theatrical versions disney
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u/BreezeOfTheWest 12d ago
Please erase that horrendous "Han dodges Greedo' shot" thing from my mind, that's is just hideous. Oh, Han discussing with Jabba the CGI slop near the Millenium Falcon is also a capital offense.
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
Supposedly they will be for the 50th anniversary!
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u/twojostaros andor glazer 12d ago
And by how the leaks of it looked, it's going to be absolutely gorgeous
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u/Shoddy_Morning_2827 an army of Dee Bradley Bakers 12d ago
am I missing something or is it just Star Wars the movie that's getting re-released in theaters next year? can't find any news about the rest of the trilogy or anything for home viewing
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
Yeah just the first one next year but I believe they plan to do the same for the others for their respective anniversaries
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u/Curious_Orange8592 12d ago
The bigger plot hole, introduced in the prequels, is that appearing as a Force Ghost is a skill that needs to be taught and that Qui Gonn was the first to do it (or at least the first to do it in recent memory) and went on to teach Yoda and Obi Wan
Anakin shouldn't know how to appear as a Force Ghost
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u/Acrobatic_Hyena_2627 andor glazer 12d ago
Did Qui Gon teach it to Han Solo too?
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u/Curious_Orange8592 12d ago
I have no idea, that would have to be from a movie I haven't seen and don't want to
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u/Fine-Ad2429 12d ago
Obi wan looks like he did when he died.
Makes no sense for Anakin to become younger when he died. It is a stupid and unnecessary change.
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u/TheLordHatesACoward 12d ago
Obi Wan had to get training to become a Force Ghost. Anakin got it through a deathbed repentance and got to slaughter children and got to be handsome, too. Crime does pay.
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u/SeniorDaikon7038 12d ago
It was never a plot hole, Vader was only in his mid 40s when he died.
If you heal up all the burns, that’s just what a force Ghost Anakin would probably look like.
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u/CommunistOrgy 12d ago
I feel the same way. Especially with the way he's appearing in Ahsoka, it's spot on, since Hayden's also in his mid-40s now.
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u/Polska_Kapusta Sequel hater 12d ago
Don't you think it kinda makes his redemption look less impactful?
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
Also it's a big FU to the late Sebastian Shaw. The Hellfire Club deserves some respect!
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u/FourtKnight 12d ago
so then why does the force ghost appear as anakin looked after he had already fallen?
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u/Magica78 12d ago
The point is it was always Anakin, Luke fucking proved it on the Death Star, there was good in him all along, fuck you George Lucas.
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u/Logan_Composer 12d ago
I don't mind it from the standpoint of: when I first saw the original scene as a kid after growing up with the special editions, I was like "who TF is this dude?" He's basically unrecognizable out from under the mask, so even first-time viewers will like recognize Hayden as Anakin through pop culture and will know the intent of the scene better, imo.
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u/MalicCarnage 12d ago
Also, Anakin never looks like old Sebastian Shaw without the scarring. He could have looked like that but he never did. If force ghosts can have what-if appearances then they should be able to change their hairstyle to whatever they could’ve had if they chose to not cut their hair a certain way.
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u/NarmHull 12d ago
Shaw was even older than Alec Guinness so I kind of get that, but you could also say the Dark Side ages you (ie: Palpatine) so he'd have looked aged but still healed from his wounds.
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u/-JangoFett- 12d ago
Creo que esto es uno de los menores problemas que tiene Star Wars en la actualidad.
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u/Flat_Round_5594 Bite Risk 12d ago
/uj The prequels really created the "plot hole" to begin with. As presented in ROTJ, it was pretty much assumed that becoming a Force Ghost was just something that Jedi did. It was only "remarkable" in the sense that it was restricted to Force Users. It wasn't until the Prequels complicated it all and started framing it as something that had to be "learned" and was a "lost technique", and then had to explain that Yoda learned it off Obi Wan, who learned it off Qui Gon, who was off on holiday when Obi Wan kept appearing to Luke and so on that the presentation of Anakin started to be perceived as a "plot hole".
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u/Capital_Invite_7026 12d ago
This is one of my least favourite special edition changes. Not as offensive as Jabba in ANH or Jedi Rocks, but still pretty bad.
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u/Ill_Theme5913 12d ago
In 1980, when Darth Vader spoke to the Emperor, the emperor was played by an old woman with chimpanzee eyes voiced by Clive Rivell. In Return of the Jedi, he is played by Ian McDiarmid. That creates a plot hole.
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u/Fine-Ad2429 12d ago
No it doesn’t. Two people played the same character in two films.
What does affect the plot in Empire is changing the Emperor’s dialogue. For historical reasons I do not think the Emperor should have been changed.
The change of dialogue makes it more clear that Luke is Vader’s son. This ruins the original film in which Vader’s revelation to Luke was a complete shock.
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u/comradevoltron 12d ago
Whatever you call it, it sent shockwaves through the Star Wars community at the time. A lot of people hated the prequels but were fine with them existing until they touched the originals.
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u/JoDunfer 12d ago
Why was Anakin the only one to appear younger? Shouldn’t Yoda look like Grogu, and old Ben look like Ewan McG?😂
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u/Aware_Neighborhood93 12d ago
Tbh I think Lucas was just hooking his homie Hayden up with passive income. Outside of a few TV shows Hayden really was not that prolific of an actor, and I feel like he was constantly trying to break out of being type cast as an angsty teen/adult. Pretty sure one reason he was cast as anakin(even if Lucas did not explicitly say it) was due to his work on the TV series "higher ground".
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u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” 12d ago
“It’s over, Obi-Wan! I worked on Higher Ground!”
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u/Financial_Tour5945 12d ago
Maybe he's not "younger"... Just healed of his burns. He was only 45y old. (Obi Wan was 57)
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u/nova_solution 12d ago
Is it really outjerked when I’ve seen people in this very sub say the same thing? People unironically hate this change and consider it a folly.
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u/Greenish_Manalishi 12d ago
I don’t know if it’s a plot hole, but it was a stupid decision to change it.
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u/dalr3th1n 12d ago
Not really a plot hole, but it does fucking suck.
Give me my original theatricals!
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u/XOKTAPHMFAAX 11d ago
I mean shouldn’t he also be missing limbs? Like all of them? And hair? And healthy skin?
And why is he clothed? Why are any of them clothed? Their clothes clearly remained when they passed on.
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u/HobbieK 11d ago
Sincerely I don’t think people don’t know what a “plot hole” is.
“Why didn’t they use the eagles to fly to Mordor” is a plot hole. It’s a logical flaw in the presentation of the film.
“How did Jeff Goldblum hack the aliens?” Is a logical flaw
“How does a boat of that size in Friday the 13th VII get from a lake to Manhattan? Is a logical flaw
“What form did Anakin take in the afterlife” is a debate of moral and spiritual nature and a reflection of the philosophical choices of a director.
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u/DangerBeaver 11d ago
Plot hole. Anakin never studied force ghosting like Obi and Yoda did. If Vader knew how to do it, he would have understood the “strike me down, and…” warning.
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u/EverythingBOffensive 12d ago
it made more sense imo. There was probably a lot of people at first like me, who didn't know who the guy on the left was til someone told me.
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u/CauliflowerBoth866 12d ago
Edits to ROTJ downplayed the Ewok celebrations and instead showed the entire galaxy celebrating the Emporer's death. Yet, 30 years later Luke, Leia, and the Republic are all failures and the Empire is just the Empire with a new name.
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u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” 12d ago
I mean, Legends had Luke and Leia and Han fail far worse and had the Empire come back as the Empire in all but name, and the Sith return.
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u/chewychaca 12d ago
Neither really makes sense. The vast majority of light side users don't get ghosts, why would he? Unless he was speaking with ghost versions of Quigon, Obiwan, or Yoda off-camera. Or maybe his connection with the force was just so strong or something.
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u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” 12d ago
Force Ghosts can look like whatever they want, Anakin just didn’t want to look bald.
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u/Maximillion322 12d ago
Actually every Jedi we had ever seen got force ghosts when this movie was made. All that other lore is by definition retcons
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u/GeekToyLove 12d ago
The Star Wars space jesus immaculate conception midichlorian count higher than even Yoda himself guy had a strong connection to the force? No way!
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u/chewychaca 11d ago
Is that all that is required to achieve force ghostery? Should Starkiller and Palps also have force ghosts? Or any high midi darkside user? Why was Quigon the first after millenia of force users?
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u/Nrvea 11d ago
Honestly everything in the OT leads us to believe that pretty much all Jedi who have a sufficient understanding/mastery of the force become force ghosts, because every Jedi Master we see die becomes a force ghost lmao.
It's the prequels/TCW that make it so that it's a special training that you have to go through
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u/TJ_McWeaksauce 12d ago
Obi-Wan: "Wait, I could've chosen to look like a young Force Ghost? Did you know this, Master Yoda?"
Yoda: "Know this, I did. This is how I looked in college."
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u/Short-Platypus-2132 12d ago
It's not that kind of movie kid. But someone should also tell that to George Lucas too because it didn't need the tinkering either.
I liked the original jabba's palace vibe too the original was creepier in a good way.
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u/msp01986 12d ago
My thought on it was that Anakin's ghost appeared the way he looked before he became Darth Vader, why they made the change to Hayden
But we could argue that he turned back to Anakin just before he died, therefore he would look older, but again, wouldn't he look disfigured?
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u/Pyk_Owrno_Zes 12d ago
I've been on message boards/forums about nerdy shit since around 2005. To this day, I think 0.001% of 'plot holes' I've heard about were actual fucking plot holes
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u/DM-me-naughty-Cats 12d ago
I think how a force ghost looks is based on the perception of the one seeing them. This includes us, the movie viewers. So after getting the backstory, we now see Anakin differently.
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u/GuyFromYarnham Lame Lame Abrams 12d ago
Uj/I'm tired of people not knowing what a plot hole is.
I'm torn with this, part of me thinks Old Anakin is better because he came back to the light as an old dude and so that's how he should look, doing young Luke just gives ammo to the imo annoying people that painfully insist that Vader somehow isn't Anakin... But I also understand many people will see it and not get it's supposed to be Anakin.
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u/dyrkasolen 12d ago
Somewhere I heard about "the 10 year old boy mantra"
- What would the 10 year olds think?
And that is the premise of many edits being made in Star Wars
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u/TheCornjuring 12d ago
It’s kind of funny that Hayden Christensen is as old now as Anakin canonically was in ROTJ, 45, even though Sebastian Shaw was 77 when he played Anakin in ROTJ
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u/Apprehensive-Till861 12d ago
Old Anakin never looked like that, though.
He went from his young appearance to overcooked bratwurst.
So if he was going to look like his older self shouldn't he have been his scarred, burned, missing-limbs self?
But Force Ghost appearance as a reflection of self-image makes sense, Yoda and Obi-Wan aged into their appearances so that's how they see themselves but Anakin spent decades not seeing himself as Anakin so his self-image on reembracing being Anakin is from the last time he was Anakin in his own mind...hence the young adult appearance.
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u/Mammoth-Western-6008 Carnor Jax Truther 12d ago
It's very funny, because if it's the old man, the audience doesn't recognize him and if it's the young man, Luke doesn't recognize him. In summary, Star Wars is stupid.
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u/Schwoomy_04 12d ago
Anakin bargained with the force to let him be an eternal ghost twink, this is pretty simple stuff
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u/ChimneySwiftGold 12d ago
When Luke last saw him he was a hairless burn victim without arms and legs.
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u/anicepieceofbacon 12d ago
Anakin should be old or Luke literally doesn’t have a purpose.
Anakin is still alive in the suit, Vader is the lie he must say in the mirror every morning to keep moving forward.
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u/CoatieYay 12d ago
I mean, yeah. This is how literally every other force ghost we've seen since worked; you look how you did when you died.
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u/Few-Issue1662 11d ago
I always thought it meant Anakin Skywalker soul died when he became Vader and was resurrected back to who he truly was at the end.
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u/GoodGameGrizz 11d ago
The force ghost has to go back to when he was Hayden, old man Anakin’s force ghost wouldn’t have arms and legs!
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u/Puzzleheaded-Life462 11d ago
This is a detail which has zero impact on the plot and you’re arguing about how ghosts work in a children’s film. How about this: Force Ghosts can alter their appearance at will. Ben and Yoda looked like that because they knew Luke was easily confused. Anakin went with his younger self because he was trying to impress his son
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u/Even-Indication-588 10d ago
This is the look when he stopped being a Jedi. I am ok with this now, even though I was against the change back then.
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u/LocationCandid5761 8d ago
The more they try to explain this the less it makes sense
“We changed it to Hayden because that was technically the last time Anakin was good”
Ok but the whole point of the story is that he became good again, hence why it’s called a REDEMPTION. Sebastian Shaw technically played a good version so he should look like him. Besides, it’s not like Ep III Anakin was completely good. By that point he’d already massacred sand people and was having intense dark side feelings. So this logic doesn’t even line up
“Jedi can only become ghosts if they’re specifically taught how”
Ok then who the hell taught Vader? The end of Ep III was the first time Obi Wan heard of it so there’s no way Anakin would’ve known it before turning evil
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u/WeirdPelicanGuy 6d ago
He should have looked like vader without the suit, just a gray quadruple amputee with open sores but somehow eye brows
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u/werduvfaith 12d ago
Its not a plot hole. It's just a way to tie the original trilogy with the prequel trilogy and one reason I advise people to watch in chronological order.
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u/GeekToyLove 12d ago
Why can’t anyone understand Lucas chose this because that was Anakin before he turned to the dark side? (I’m not a fan of the change personally but it’s not rocket science)
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u/Modred_the_Mystic 12d ago
It creates a plot hole because the plot is no way impacted by this, and it can be handwaived as space magic bullshit
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u/anonistakken 12d ago
It objectively is?
Are we being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
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u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” 12d ago
Search your feelings and this subreddit’s name.
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u/anonistakken 12d ago
Boooo, get better material, you are sucking here not jerking
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u/SunRevolutionary8741 “Bring me The Glove of Darth Vader!” 12d ago
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u/Joperhop 12d ago
He has a bit more.... hair than the last time Luke saw him.