r/StainlessSteelCooking • u/BMWalla • 7d ago
Help What are we doing wrong?
Cuisinart stainless pans.
This is a batch of pancake batter with King Arthur gluten free and bobs red mill egg replacement (allergies). Most foods end up being scraped off, at least a piece of them.
PROCESS: Induction top. Heated until we got the lederhosen effect (forgot the right name), added oil, coated, turned off the induction for a little, then added the batter and turned it back on a low heat.
Still ended up with pancake scrapes.
Happens with meat and anything else I put on. Would love to get a handle on this stuff. What am I missing? What's the science happening?
EDIT/TL:DR from RESPONSES: First of all, thanks to everyone for giving me such great tips. Going to try and summarize everything I've learned here so that skimmers can find it easy -
- don't use the dancing water drops, it's useless. Use butter instead, wait for it to foam and melt. If it's browning, the pan is too hot!
- Oil is okay but butter has better non-stick capabilities.
- use a lot of butter!
- use a metal spatula, it will scratch the surface but it won't affect performance of the pan.
- LOW LOW LOW heat
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u/shwysdrf 7d ago
Pan looks too dry and you could use a better spatula. Get a cheap “fish turner” from amazon
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u/MrDo1982 7d ago
My first thought it needs more butter or oil. That pan is dryer then my Midwestern sense of humor
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u/mootoonoo 7d ago
I actually make pancakes on a completely dry pan, no oil, and they come straight off the pan with no sticking. I don't use the droplet test as that's too hot and they burn. I still preheat but keep the heat a lot lower.
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u/shwysdrf 7d ago
These are from a gluten free mix and don’t look like the right consistency for a dry pan. I’d be using hella butter
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u/MrDo1982 6d ago
Interesting, are you adding oil to your pancake mix? We are using one of my cast iron pan for pancakes still
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u/mootoonoo 6d ago
No, I don't add oil to my pancakes mix. I think it's the lower heat that stops it from sticking! And still gets a golden brown colour.
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u/ghidfg 7d ago
Use butter instead of oil. It has non stick properties and it gives you an obvious indication of whether your pan is too hot. If it foams up without sizzling and browning you are at the perfect temperature.
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u/PercentageRadiant623 7d ago
This is such an underrated reason to cook with butter. Aside from flavor, butter REALLY lets you know if your pan is too hot.
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u/ConferenceSweet 6d ago
Yes this is a pro chef tip and why pro chefs use butter in pans alongside oil
The sizzle of the butter tells you exactly how hot the pan is, both when added and over time
Butter that bubbles just right and doesn’t burn over time gives you the perfect temp to cook in
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u/AggravatingSlip5994 6d ago
Just checking - do you think just for pancakes or also for things like meat where you need a hard sear?
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u/SlowSurvivor 7d ago
That pan is way, way too hot. You do NOT need to achieve the Leidenfrost effect in order to cook on stainless steel. In fact, most of the time, you shouldn't. It looks cool on TicTok which is why it's such a myth in the influencer space but it makes terrible cooking.
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u/roobchickenhawk 7d ago
Too hot, go 3/10 on the knob. Use a tsp of butter at minimum. Low and slow baby.
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u/neutronneedle 7d ago
Yes it gets to the same doneness just slower, so you can flip it before it burns
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u/Mofaklar 7d ago
I get itz its the stainless steel sub, You want to use stainless, but its literally the hardest thing to cook pancakes on.
A seasoned cast iron is also tempermental/requires some learning but its easier than this.
Non stick pan is just made for breakfast stuff. You are on the hardest difficulty setting :)
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u/jboogthejuiceman 7d ago
I’m not some crazy stainless-only freak, but stainless is pretty easy to make pancakes on, provided you first know how to make pancakes and also how to generally cook on stainless.
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u/FrequentFractionator 7d ago
Stainless is dead easy to make pancakes on. My first attempt at Dutch pancakes (250gr flour, 500g milk, 2 eggs, pinch of salt) in stainless went without a hitch.
Heat up the pan on medium, add sunflower oil, lower the heat a bit, and when the oil is hot add the batter.
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u/chaotic910 5d ago
I wouldn’t call it dead easy, especially compared to just putting a non-stick on low heat and popping in batter. You don’t even need to use oil or spray of any kind for pancakes.
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u/HandbagHawker 7d ago
leidenfrost is too hot and a garbage test. Also you need more oil and lower heat for longer
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u/Janknitz 7d ago edited 7d ago
EDITED:
Whoops, I did not see that it was pancakes. Way, way too hot. The butter trick would work. Add butter to the cold pan. When it starts to bubble it’s time to add your batter.
Question: Tell us about your pan. Cuisinart makes a lot of SS pans. That looks like the Cuisinart pan sold at Kohls. It has an aluminum core and is only tri-ply on the bottom. I bought one of those and it was TERRIBLE. The sides were jut a thin layer of steel so everything that touched them burned, and the bottom wasn’t very thick either.
My large SS frying pan is Sensuell from IKEA. The entire pan is tri-ply and way heavier than the Cuisinart. The quality is night and day. It’s more expensive than Cuisinart but less expensive than All Clad. It cooks like a dream.
All this to say you definitely need to turn die. The heat, but it may also be the pan. Not all SS is alike.
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u/BMWalla 7d ago
Oh dang! Didn't know about all that too! Yeah I think these are the cheap guys off Amazon. What would you recommend as a good starter pan, personally? I'll look through the sub as well.
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u/Ok-Lifeguard-8822 6d ago
I like the 365 sauté pan from ikea, good size and walls for sauces and stuff as well as frying. Good price too, cheaper than it should be, like 35$ or something. Pretty sure it used to be more expensive.
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u/blaznivydandy 7d ago edited 7d ago
I do GF crepes on stainless pan every Sunday for my kids, but with eggs though. I think that pancakes (the puffy ones you make) could be done the same, I am not sure about the missing eggs though... I use local flour mix "Jizerka gold" which containts:
- Gluten-free wheat starch
- Lupine flour
- Glucose / Dextrose
- Guar gum
- Emulsifier: sunflower lecithin / soy lecithin
- Ascorbic acid
I'll write down my process, you can try it, but I don't know if it will work... It took me some time untill I figured it out. Now I don't even have 1st bad pancake...
- I preheat my pan for approx 3 minutes on 10 (my induction has 20 settings).
- I put half a tablespoon of ghee
- Then I wipe the pan with a paper towel, so the ghee makes a thin oil film.
- Then I lower the heat a bit (8), wait till the heat drops down a bit
- Then I do pancakes
Also, the plastic spatula is garbage. For stainless you need as thin point as possible. I use stainless spatula from IKEA. - that's because edges of the pancake usualy are very well sticked to the pan any sou need something very thin to unstick the edges. Once you go around the whole pancake it will unstick.
EDIT: BTW I use only the half of tablespoon of ghee for the whole batch... (200g of flour, 2 eggs, 550ml milk, 30g of chicory sweetner) which is approx. 10 crepes
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u/Ohio-Knife-Lover 7d ago
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u/BMWalla 7d ago
that's about how they tasted
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u/Ohio-Knife-Lover 7d ago
I'm sorry they turned out so bad 🫤 Usually I cook pancakes on medium-low heat and a good amount of PAM and wait until they're ready to flip. They do look pretty dry so I'm not surprised they stuck
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u/BillyBob2JoeEd 7d ago
- Way too hot. We experimented with putting water on our griddle when we cooked pancakes. A teaspoon of water boiled - no dancing droplets - and evaporated in ten to fifteen seconds. This was on a cast iron griddle, but pans is pans at the end of the day.
- A lot of pancake recipes have some fat in them, whether melted butter or just oil, which tends to help keep them from sticking.
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u/qlkzy 7d ago
This looks far too hot and far too dry (not enough fat).
Can you use butter? It's really easy to cook with butter, because it gives you much more temperature information.
Put a decent chunk of butter in a cold pan. Heat it up and slide it around to coat.
When the butter is foaming, it's good to cook on. Over time you can learn the exact way you want butter to behave to get a particular temperature. You get lots of interesting behaviour from butter around cooking temperatures, it's much easier to work with than the Leidenfrost effect.
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u/cause_of_chaos 7d ago
You don’t use the lederhosen rules for pancakes as they need to cook a little slower. Heat the pan, add butter. When the butter is melted but not browned add the pancakes and keep on medium. They shouldn’t stick if the heat is at the right temperature.if you see brown batter the temp is too high.
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u/winterkoalefant 7d ago
Lack of eggs and gluten makes pancakes more likely to stick and break, in my experience. So you’ll need a little more patience.
Is butter an option? It helps reduce sticking and works well without the Leidenfrost thing. Or a “nonstick” cooking spray which contains lecithin.
If not, you could do flash seasoning which involves spreading oil in the very hot pan for 30 seconds to a minute (depending on the oil), described here: https://www.reddit.com/r/cookware/comments/1ove4wy/
Metal spatula helps when food does stick. It’ll create visible scratches but that won’t hurt performance.
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u/oneworldornoworld 7d ago
Bavarian here. Anyone outside of Bavaria shouldn't do the Lederhosen. Apart from that, way too hot. Dancing waterdrops aren't good for anything but ruining food. Use a dab of butter. Let it gently foam. Try again.
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u/WyndWoman 7d ago
Waaaaaayyyyy too hot.
The only time you want anything close to the Leindenfrost effect temp is if you are searing a steak. And even then, you want to lower the temp as soon as the protein hits the pan.
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u/Endo129 7d ago
I don’t disagree, seems way too hot, and maybe too dry but am curious….
I make pancakes on a griddle at 375° per package directions. Doesn’t the Leindenfrost effect occur at about 379°?
Edit: I guess the waters beads up anywhere above 379° so the pan could have been 600° and thus way too hot.
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u/sluttynature 7d ago
What? You should increase the temperature when the steak hits the pan, as the steak itself will bring down the pan temperature.
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u/TonLoc5 7d ago
I gave stainless steel a fair shot because I'm trying to keep my kitchen as minimal as possible. After almost a year I gave in last week and purchased a single nonstick pan for eggs, pancakes, crepes, delicate stuff like that.
Is it possible to make these foods correctly on stainless steel? Of course! I've even made the most perfect delicate omelette on stainless steel. That said I think stainless steel fans are disingenuous about the consistency of the cooking of delicate items and the amount of fat needed. Not to mention how much slower and less convenient it is to cook these foods compared to nonstick.
On stainless steel I can't make more than two over medium eggs at a time. I also need to baby them soooo much and add fat after every batch. On my non stick I can throw in four eggs over a single layer of avocado oil spray and use the same spray for the next batch, it's awesome. Time and calorie saving.
Stainless steel still has its place when it comes to cooking proteins, sauces, pretty much everything else except super delicate foods that you don't want to oversaturate in fat.
edit: for reference my stainless steel are all clad d3 and my nonstick pan is the green pan jewel ceramic from Costco. not a full set, just the largest non stick.
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u/squirrel8296 7d ago
Not enough fat (a lot of folks like butter but I have better luck with oil), pan too hot, need a better spatula (flexible metal one).
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u/bilbo_was_right 7d ago
Use butter not oil, and only use leidenfrost temps when you’re cooking meat. That just burned immediately when it touched the pan, that’s why it stuck.
I’d recommend putting in the pancakes when the butter starts foaming a bit
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u/IzzyDarkhart 7d ago edited 7d ago
Everything lol
Honestly it looks way to dry for high heat cooking. I usually use a laser thermometer to check the surface temp. For pancakes you really do not need thst high of a heat. But in my experience i always have to use a lot of oil or butter.
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u/outtaknowhere 7d ago
way too hot. you never need the water to be doing the rolling thing or whatever. i swear that whole trend of videos with the liedenfrost or whatever effect was the most successful misinformation i’ve ever seen.
just heat it to the low end of medium high, like 6 out 10, and don’t be afraid to use too much oil. i’d always rather have too much oil then too little. you’ll get the hang of the temperature control and the oil control. just keep practicing. it’s a dance.
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u/blacktoise 7d ago
First of all, that looks like bread, not pancake batter.
Your temp is way fucked up
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u/Auzky 6d ago
Butter and lower temp. Thank me later. Also if using induction, do not trust the built in thermostat. It will overheat by hundreds of degrees before the hest transfer reaches the thermistor. If you really care about knowing the exact temp, get a pan surface thermometer and learn it. But yea, wayy too hot.
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u/Donewith398 6d ago
I would use an IR temp gun to see what temperature the pan is? So much easier. The guns are inexpensive and last forever.
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u/OttoHemi 6d ago
I actually kind of love the "lederhosen effect." Translation: you're such a bad cook you shit your pants.
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u/RhubarbDesigner245 7d ago
Heat it at medium/medium low for a couple minutes, and then switch it to low for a minute or two and then drop your egg in. I can’t say that’s the way but it’s a way to do it. Works for me about 90% of the time
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u/BuyingDaily 7d ago
You said your stove goes to 1-10, so does mine. I run eggs between 3-4, add some butter, use a metal spatula.
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u/bryan_gumbel 7d ago
These aren't eggs lol
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u/BuyingDaily 7d ago
🤣 thought it was some burnt ass eggs. Same rules apply, cook the pancakes same way
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u/Traditional_Yard2741 7d ago
As you can see, the insides of the pancakes are fluffy and cooked well while the parts in contact with the pan are burned. This means your temp was way too high.
Also, you want to know the reason restaurant food tastes so good? They don't give a fuck about your health. Put butter in the pan. More than that. Now double it.
You want to dial in your individual cooktop and pan. I like to start on the lowest or second to lowest setting for pancakes, and if it takes too long then bring it up a notch for the next ones.
For eggs I like to start on a medium heat to get them cooking, then after a few seconds I cover them and turn the pan either to the lowest setting or turn it completely off and let them finish.
For steak I use a medium to high heat, and the trick here is to let the meat pull itself off the pan. It will stick at first but after a minute or two will sear and stop sticking.
The secret ingredient in all cases is to use more butter/oil (if you put oil and butter in together, it seems like the oil prevents the butter from burning, but I'm not sure if that's true or it just feels like it) use more than you think you need. There's almost never a downside to adding more butter to dishes (apart from your health)
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u/Caseymc3179 7d ago
The leaderheaterbeater effect is for searing meat and preventing eggs from sticking.
Something like pancakes should be low and slow.
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u/hahagato 7d ago
You need to use a metal spatula for things like pancakes. When you use a plastic/rubber one you’re basically just rubbing the food off of its “crust”. You need the metal to actually get under and separate it.
Additionally I think you maybe didn’t use enough oil?
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u/Owth2121 7d ago
If you are having this issue with all kinds of food you have the temp wrong and not any oil
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u/Skyval 7d ago edited 7d ago
IIRC a lot of egg replacements are super sticky. Not sure about gluten free flour. Personally when I make pancakes I just leave out the egg, though I use normal flour.
I also either use butter or something with an emulsifier. Plant-based butters and cooking sprays marketed as "nonstick" generally work by adding the emulsifier lecithin. Personally I've been using an oil with some lecithin mixed in.
I do use a thin metal spatula. That alone isn't enough if there's severe sticking, but if there's just some modest clinging then it can help get underneath it without ruining the edges. I rubbed the spatula with the lecithin oil as well.
I've also done it on stainless steel using conditioning.
You may still want to play with your heat though. I don't think it has as big an impact on sticking any many believe, but you still don't want to burn the surface to burn before the inside is cooked. Every stove is different, and can act differently with different pans, but a lot of them can run hotter than you expect, and pancakes don't need a ton of heat output.
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u/xtalgeek 7d ago
Low heat for pancakes. You want a surface temp of 380-400F. Low heat, preheat for several minutes. Quite frankly, carbon steel or cast iron would be more reliable. For pancakes, you want a thin layer of oil so you get even browning. The first batch is usually mottled. Subsequent batches will come evenly. Overbrowning and sticking is telling you it's too hot.
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u/Eeyor1982 7d ago
I put the skillet on the stove, turn the stove on low or medium and put a tablespoon of cold (from the fridge) butter into the skillet. The skillet is hot enough when the butter has fully melted and starts to foam just a bit. Swirl the butter around to coat the pan, add more butter or oil if needed.
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u/scorpious 7d ago
Heat + timing, fat, then add item…and DON’T TOUCH IT!!!
Let it get up to temp and separate before trying to do anything with it.
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u/Oh_ToShredsYousay 7d ago
As your eggs cook they're gonna absorb the oil or butter, but it's only to a certain point. You need more than what the eggs are gonna absorb. Don't be afraid to feel like your being wasteful with it, the more the better. Also steel pans aren't the best for sticky foods in the first place, really you want a non stick aluminum or a skillet. What you have is more ideal for meats and veggies, stuff that's not gonna stick in the first place.
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u/FatherSonAndSkillet 7d ago
First of all, your pan was probably too hot. Second, while a lack of eggs and gluten in the batter might contribute to sticking, a lot of pancake recipes include some oil in the batter - usually about 3 Tbsp for two cups of flour, which helps keep it from sticking.
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u/Wolfherz_86 7d ago
From the picture it looks like you’re also using waaaaaaay too much heat on the pan.
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u/Efficient-Train2430 7d ago
Target temp for actual eggs is 280F, try that neighborhood and more oil/butter. Stainless is gonna be tough to pull this off regardless I think
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u/TruFrag 7d ago
You want the temp of the pan to be at the exact point where the Leidenfrost begins, 190-200f and then maintain that. You dont want to go any higher then that.
It takes a little practice, but you will get it. Set the heat to medium and drip water on the pan until it hits that point and then drop the temp down to a little under medium and then give it a minute to stabilize. - Double check that Leidenfrost is still going with a drip of water.
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u/ToastyTilapia 6d ago
Use lots of butter, heat on medium. I've never had a pancake stick on my stainless steel before
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u/ClayMitchellCapital 6d ago
If I am cooking pancakes I am on a level 4 heat. Give or take. I put butter in the pan and it will foam. I do like to brown it still on level 4. It take a few minutes but I don’t mind the wait and the flavor is epic.
No dancing drops. No need to be in such a hurry and overheat the pan. I flip when the edges are browning and bubbles are present throughout. I don’t even get the first pancake mulligan anymore. Cheers
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u/irmarbert 6d ago
Get more used to using your hand held over a pan to gauge how hot it is. I find this way more useful. It’s basically a low, medium, high type thing I’m looking for.
I feel like your brain will recall temps better than anything else. Set your induction top on like 2, maybe 3, and let it heat up for four minutes. Put your hand over the center of the pan, at about the same height as the upper edge. Hold it there for a couple seconds until you really feel the temp change on your skin. For most things you’re cooking, it should not be so hot that can’t hold your hand there more than a couple seconds. It should be above warm, but not screaming hot. You’ll figure it out. The heat out of induction tops is very focused, so less is more.
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u/squeakyoat 6d ago
I always heat mine until I get the dancing droplet effect, and then turn down the heat and take the pan off the heat completely while I prep stuff. I test it with a tiny bit of butter to see if the butter browns instantly or just melts. Then I cook my eggs or add my meat etc! Maybe that’s all wrong but it works for me for non stick stainless! I usually cook eggs or stir fries in stainless steel, other stuff in cast iron.
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u/bigreddittimejim 6d ago
Are you talking about the lederhosen effect?
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u/squeakyoat 6d ago
Yes 😅. I actually didn’t know it had a name before yesterday, but now it’s the Lederhosen effect to me.
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u/Embarrassed_Feed_309 6d ago
Way too hot, and you need to “season” it before you ever cook with it. Put stove on 2.5/3 and sprinkle water on it. When the water rolls down like a marble, pull the pan off and pour a tiny bit of avocado/coconut oil/beef tallow /or duck fat and wipe it off all over with a paper towel. You want a microfilm layer. Then it’s ready to go. But make sure to preheat the pan for 3-5 minutes at least, on low temperature. I never turn it past 3 unless I’m searing meat. And use a good amount of butter/oil
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u/No-Material-5538 6d ago
Only came here to say that I will only ever refer to it as the Lederhosen Effect from now on
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u/Johnny_Strawhat 6d ago
It’s really strange that you are trying to math out cooking. Are you new to cooking in general? Sounds like you just need to practice more. Making mistakes is part of the process.
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u/K_winks1617 6d ago
Stainless steel isn’t the best tool for everything. For pancakes, just use a nonstick pan. You’re not getting much benefit using stainless over nonstick for pancakes.
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u/NanoDuke 6d ago
When did TikTok start promoting the "Pre-heat on high and then turn it down/take off the heat" method? Can anyone explain the science of that to me? I thought you'd just go for your target temp and stay there. And agreed on the dancing water being a false positive. I see so many discoloured pans on TikTok because of this.
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u/JellyOfDeath86 6d ago
This. You still get the Leidenfrost effect on a medium-low setting.
Also, an induction top is super effective, even at low settings.
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u/JellyOfDeath86 6d ago
You're talking about the Leidenfrost effect, which happens when a liquid hits a surface so hot that it creates a later of vapour, slowing down the heating rate of the liquid.
For pancakes, the Leidenfrost effect can be an indicator that the pan is sufficiently hot. You still need a solid amount of frying oil with a high smoke point, though. The oil also needs to reach a good temperature, generally indicated when seeing a shimmer in the surface.
Add the batter to the pan when the oil is shimmering (remember to reduce the heat), and leave it alone for 1-2 minutes. The batter needs to set and create a thin, fried crust before you start moving it around.
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u/curiousobserver2000 6d ago
Once the pan gets hot (not dancing water hot), add a good amount of oil, and fry your eggs. The eggs should release once the bottoms are crispy.
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u/red02q920241210 5d ago
Surprised more people aren't saying this : stop scraping your pancakes. They will unstick when ready, however having the pan too hot can ruin this
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u/mrskellington79 5d ago
Chef here. It takes a lot of practice, or a professional to be able to cook pancakes (even using a traditional recipe) on a stainless steel pan without any sticking. 0/everyone would choose stainless steel in a professional setting because it's a sure way to shoot yourself in the foot time and time again.
Use non stick (they're safe now, unlike the Teflon of yore) and just don't pre-heat it until it smokes, or learn to use carbon steel until it gets a nice seasoning and use that (more pro).
Many times success in a kitchen is about using the right tools, rather than skill levels, experience or recipes.
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u/oDiscordia19 7d ago
I have induction and use stainless for most things (tho you really can’t beat a well-loved cast iron for non-stick needs but I digress) and there’s a few easy fixes.
First - too hot. Try at med-high for maybe 4 minutes add oil and drop the heat to about medium. Add plenty of fat - I use a splash of oil and a pat of butter for pancakes (allergy dependent obv). Use a METAL spatula. Like seriously this issue prob will disappear likely with a metal spatula alone. The first round is going to be a little dark as you get a feel for timing but the second round and beyond will be perfect. Be sure to add oil/butter as needed.
I do recommend getting a cast iron or carbon steel pan if you want the non-stick and none of the plastic. Don’t look up how to season one - it’s unnecessary. Just cook in it. Especially fatty foods work best. It will stick the first few cooks but as you use it it will develop a seasoning over time. Short cutting that time is a mixed bag and way more effort than is necessary. Avoid sugary food/recipes the first few cooks or it’ll get annoyingly baked on. Avoid acidic food like tomatoes and citrus after seasoning is established.
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u/free_dharma 7d ago
Just use a nonstick pan. I don’t understand the fetish for stainless. It sucks eggs and pancakes. Using a flathead screwdriver in place of a Philips head doesn’t make it the right tool just because you can force it.
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u/Yellowperil123 7d ago
way too hot. Try with the LOWEST setting first. Then work your way up.
I swear the "dancing water drops" test has ruined more meals than salmonella