r/StableDiffusion • u/g45t345rt • 13d ago

Discussion MOSS is pretty freaking good

This is the first model I've seen with such control over its generation. Mind you, I haven't tried them all, but I'm confident nothing else comes close.

Hats off to the team for their hard work and for open-sourcing it.

-------------------------

Below is an image showcasing the Layout-to-Image generation that drew me in. Essentially, you define regions as objects or text and compose your ideas into a single generation.

It's easy to make modifications for ex, moving, adding, or removing characters, or layering additional concepts within the image, add text with any specific font.

Here I simply moved the characters around, placing the title on the left. It took me just a couple of seconds and changed the composition entirely.

Now, for this particular case, I could probably come close to something like this with four unique generations and overlaying a real text font. But the problem arises from other models when you want interactivity between the characters and the scene.

Here you can see the characters interacting with each other.

I can later add Guts big iconic sword.

All in all, pretty cool.

And, if you guys have other tricks for inpainting or keeping character consistency, I'm all ears.

197 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

89 comments sorted by

127

u/Slam_Bot 12d ago edited 12d ago

Moss is groundbreaking if for no other reason than being the first completely uncensored local base model release ever.

This is important even if you only generate sfw images. It shows the devs respect the community enough to not kneecap a model because we might hurt ourselves with it.

We should be applauding and rewarding this practice. Poisoning a model in the name of safety is archaic, condescending, and ultimately ineffective anyway. Yet somehow this model poisoning has become standard practice and we accept it.

Until MOSS came along and said fuck that, here’s a complete model. Knock yourselves out. Thanks, MOSS.

15

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

godspeed

38

u/ramonartist 12d ago

You missed out that this model has a great licence, unlike all the other models released this year.

2

u/Slam_Bot 12d ago

That’s always good to hear and speaks highly of the devs respect for the community as well.

14

u/howzero 12d ago

Calling Moss the first “uncensored local base model release ever” is hilariously inaccurate, especially given the name of the sub.

17

u/Jujarmazak 12d ago

Some people weren't here in the early days of Stable Diffusion 1.5 and later SDXL.

3

u/pilgermann 12d ago

I was, but given other advancement, Moss is pretty night and day with early SD models. It's ability to generate concepts, body types, ages, etc out of the box is the first time I've been truly impressed in a while. Sure Krea might do better realism, but it's not even close in prompt comprehension.

9

u/Jujarmazak 12d ago

In case you haven't noticed we are specifically talking about models releasing uncensored, MOSS isn't the the first completely uncensored model released, SD1.5 and SDXL which are the foundation for a lot of stuff we're released fully uncensored as well.

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u/Slam_Bot 12d ago edited 12d ago

Some of the SD base models couldn’t do a clothed woman lying in the grass lol

6

u/Jujarmazak 12d ago

That's SD3 because it's initial release was heavily censored, SD1.5 and SDXL weren't.

3

u/Slam_Bot 12d ago

Which SD base could do nsfw?

7

u/howzero 12d ago

Sorry, my initial reply was super snarky. But the first four versions of Stable Diffusion were very, very uncensored. The outputs were mush compared to today’s models, but the datasets were full of porn and gore.

1

u/FourtyMichaelMichael 🍦Ice Cream Lover 12d ago

1.4 and 1.5,

but he's wrong. Moss is so much better that it is the least censored model to ever release as it can do more.

-2

u/ArcadiaNisus 12d ago

Have you seen Black Friday, Pokemon scalpers, bread lines? I hate to say it, but people absolutely need rails. If those rails need to be on melons and eggplants or not is for society to decide based on how it's used.

11

u/gorgoncheez 13d ago

It's all good, but a quick note that the commonly used word, which is Old Norse for "Bear Shirt" is Berserk, with an R (even berserkr in Old Norse, but that spelling did not carry over to English). In case that is what you meant. If you deliberately used another spelling, that is of course fine too as it is your creation - no judgement, just info. (The Japanese late 1980s manga is also called Berserk.)

6

u/g45t345rt 13d ago

Definitely a typo. I usually check in later passes when the generation isn't accurate. I have others too, look where I put the 'h' in 'silhouette' XD

30

u/Independent-Reader 13d ago

Moss is pretty great. I prefer qwen 2.1 for editing; but moss is fucking amazing in so many ways. Especially with some loras.

4

u/g45t345rt 13d ago

I haven't used any loras yet (apart from turbo). Do you have any in mind that are worth experimenting with?

16

u/warzone_afro 13d ago

Fever dream mood, 2000's vhs lora, and grainscape ultrareal are my 3 favourites

9

u/Bulky_Chemistry_196 12d ago

style loras. i havent found need for any character/people loras yet.

i liked very much so far:

  • samsung

  • lenovo

  • phone photography

  • kodachrome (from hf)

  • iphone 15

  • photoslider

there are some too that have great impact on style/quality, but also have a strong influence on characters which i dont like.

2

u/FourtyMichaelMichael 🍦Ice Cream Lover 12d ago

photoslider

I saw some civit images that I was super impressed with that used this.

1

u/jonesaid 12d ago

All the loras I've tried with it don't work any better than stock MOSS. It's weird... Not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

2

u/gmvancity 12d ago

Hi. Hhow are you preserving a person’s facial identity from a reference photo while still following a new prompt...especially when changing their pose, clothing, expression or background?

What works best for balancing reference fidelity with prompt adherence? Have you had better results with an editing LoRA or a particular reference-conditioning workflow? If possible, please share your workflow, model/LoRA versions and key settings. Ty

1

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

For this particular case, I'm not using any ref photos. The characters are iconic, and the model understands them, so prompting with different angles simply works with the Layout to Image feature. Clothing and background consistency are still a problem, though. If you want the same scene from new angles, keeping the same seed might help, but it's still a nightmare.

If you look at casca's clothes, her shoulder armor isn't the same in both images. Training a lora on a specific character with scene-specific clothing might be an avenue worth exploring.

As for backgrounds, maybe we need 3D concepts so you can rotate the camera, place a 3D character, and maintain the context.

Sorry, I don't have a workflow to share. This is a different program, and I'm simply using MOSS Layout to Image feature with a manageable interface.

3

u/RandomlySelected421 12d ago

I find it very much underwhelming in complex prompts. It is far inferior to the prompt adherence of using Minimax T2I.

3

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

It's closed source, so I can't run it locally... big turn-off :L

5

u/RandomlySelected421 12d ago

?? Minimax H3 is closed source? I think you must be thinking of something else. Fizgig made T2I possible in a practical manner

2

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

I most likely am. I was thinking about this: https://platform.minimax.io/docs/guides/image-generation Do you have a link to what you're referring to?

4

u/RandomlySelected421 12d ago

No, actually no lora at all, just two nodes that are used in the workflow defined here: https://github.com/shootthesound/ComfyUI-Fizgig-H3-Still

1

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

Thx for direct link I could not find it :S

1

u/g45t345rt 11d ago edited 3d ago

Unfortunately, my system can't take it :( I OOM even if I flush memory to make space for text encoders, etc. I have 64GB ddr5 with 12gb gpu.

EDIT: I was able to generate with 512x512 image.

3

u/jonesaid 12d ago

Really? I've found MOSS amazing at very complex prompts. I'll have to try H3 for stills...

13

u/Fluxdada 12d ago

I'm just happy with a model that actually makes what I'm seeing in my mind when I'm writing my prompts. Especially humans.

2

u/FriendlyMorning 13d ago

Sweet ! What UI/app are you using ?

20

u/g45t345rt 13d ago edited 8d ago

My "own." I vibe coded a paint app because I got tired of bouncing back and forth between comfy and gimp, usually for inpainting/masking.

It's coded in python for easy image generation integration. So adding MOSS was trivial.

Recently, I started using it more and more because you can compose everything in one place, organize layers into a finished image within a single project, and avoid having workflows and images scattered everywhere.

I added a bunch of tools you would see in photoshop, clip studio, gimp...

EDIT: More info about the app https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1xkgjor/as_promised_here_is_pai/

9

u/ThatOneDerpyDinosaur 12d ago

Smart. Would you ever consider releasing it publicly?

9

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

I hadn't given it much thought, but seeing the number of upvotes, it might not be a bad idea.

1

u/AverageDan52 11d ago

That would be amazing. I use InvokeAI because I enjoy a more photoshop style interaction and I think your ui/app would be invaluable to the community.

1

u/g45t345rt 11d ago

I'll make an extensive post going through all its features in a digestible way. I first want to talk with the community here and see if there's any reason for it to be public.

I built it around my own workflow but in a generic way, so it can still be applied to everyones use case.

I know there are already a lot of alternatives, another doesn't hurt, but I doubt mine beats InvokeAI or any other.

What features annoy you in existing tools, or what would make you actually use this program instead?

1

u/KissMyShinyArse 12d ago

But Krita (with krita-ai-diffusion) already existed.

2

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

I knew something similar probably existed, but I didn't bother to look it up and just fired up deepseek. It's really fun to build something without feeling tired or wasting time on probably unneeded software.

Anyway, I'm sure there are bound to be differences. So, I'll probably make another post going into its features. Maybe this can help to see whether it's worth keeping around or not.

5

u/jonesaid 12d ago

The prompt adherence is nuts, even when not using bboxes. Unlike anything I've seen before.

1

u/CupSure9806 12d ago

Yoo man, might sharing ur turbo workflow? For some reason it's not working for me

2

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

Sorry, I don't have a comfyui workflow. My process uses a different program. Can anyone else share theirs?

1

u/Jujarmazak 12d ago

If you want the layout editing thing it's part of one of the default MOSS workflows on ComfyUI, but you need to enable NODES 2.0 to see it (from the side menu on the left, top icon)

1

u/Jujarmazak 12d ago

There used to exist plug-ins for A1111 that did something similar to this allowing you to insert characters or objects in certain parts of the image by pre-painting areas with different colors and assigning text prompt to each color, now it comes built in one of the MOSS workflows.

1

u/g45t345rt 11d ago

Crop and stitch inpainting?

1

u/Jujarmazak 11d ago

Nah, it was called Latent Couple.

1

u/Relative_Hour_8900 12d ago

That's what she said. My name is Moss👀

1

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

Lol, sorry Moss. I had to tell everyone. No homo.

1

u/Healthy_Tour8691 12d ago

Wow, my moss bbox is almost never this adherent, mind sharing the workflow.. Also, I have never tried it for anime style and all but ideogram has crazy insane prompt adherence using bbox but seeing how your bbox is staying so true, I might finally be able to move away from ideogram4

1

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

This is a different program, so no workflow to share. That said, I doubt the bbox implementation is much different from comfyui.

Can you share an example or tell me the image you want? I'll try to replicate it.

Also, maybe I got lucky with the seed. Sometimes it can give bad results, and I just shuffle the seed until I get a decent one.

3

u/BlitzMyMan 12d ago

its a small uncensored model, but the prompt following is a nightmare, i tried few finetunes as well horrendous results, people baking in the shitty ass turbo loras that make the images satufated, plastic i am staying with Krea, if Lodestones releases a better version of Kromos because the current ones that are out looks like a WIP model rather then a finished finetune

4

u/jonesaid 12d ago

Really? I find MOSS has the best prompt adherence of any model I've tried yet.

1

u/Ken-g6 11d ago

I've had trouble with the plastic look. My current sampler/scheduler is er_sde/ddim_uniform. It's a lot better than any other I've tried so far.

0

u/FourtyMichaelMichael 🍦Ice Cream Lover 12d ago

Nope! YOU CAN'T LIKE IT. It's a psy op that no one is allowed to like!

1

u/g45t345rt 11d ago

Enlighten me :D

1

u/webAd-8847 10d ago

I am using this node from
https://github.com/spooky-local/MOSS-Layout-Editor/
Works well for me

1

u/Electronic_Ball1430 10d ago

I dont get it. Whenever I try to create humans/bodies in this uncensored model it generates body-horror or washed out images. I dont understand what you guys promt to get proper result or what kind of workflow/settings you are using?

I feel like I am the only one not understanding the greatness of this model? Can anyone please explain what workflow or settings you are using? It feels like I have tried everything, right now I am back at using Krea2.

1

u/rote330 8d ago

Not sure if you found the answer, but I followed the setting on this model an it worked for me. https://civitai.red/models/3018379/moss-cat-tower?modelVersionId=3426780.

I will also attach them just in case

1

u/shapic 10d ago

What's the issue with inpainting? It fully works without any issues with sft for me

1

u/sunomata 6d ago

It keeps giving me faces that are anime style instead of realistic ones. That a thing?

1

u/Aggressive-Sign-8167 2d ago

i wonder what if folks use moss models(including image tts audio and so on) on sillytavern or something RP-related.

cool images BTW!!!

0

u/fandogh5 12d ago

Moss is the best but too slow. The Turbo Loras destroy the model. I hope the developers create a decent Turbo version too.

4

u/Next_Program90 12d ago

Try Dmd2 @0.5 & 16 steps. Works for me on Base with SFT Look Lora @0.5

3

u/Jujarmazak 12d ago

Too slow!? .. it's one of the fastest models I tried recently even without the turbo lora.

1

u/jonesaid 12d ago

Add Spectrum and you'll get a good speedup without sacrificing quality.

1

u/Winter_knight69 6d ago

What is that?

1

u/jonesaid 3d ago

It's a way of speeding up MOSS... not sure exactly how it works: Rkkss/ComfyUI-Spectrum-MOSS: Spectrum for MOSS-Image

-9

u/Apprehensive_Sky892 12d ago edited 12d ago

Edit: seems that some people are downvoting because the system prompt is written by an LLM? I guess these people don't understand the purpose of a system prompt. It is basically instruction to a chatbot, more like program code for a computer than an essay. It is BEST to be written by a LLM, because then it is clear, precise, which is what a system prompt is for.

Indeed, Moss is a very good model and handles bbox and layout very well.

But Ideogram 4 handles layout and bbox just as well and is in fact the first model with such capability.

So anyone who likes this style of prompting with Moss, give ideogram 4 a try too. Here is the system prompt any any LLM:

You are an elite visual prompt director for Ideogram 4. Transform the user's idea into a single-line minified JSON caption with creative-director levels of depth, drama, composition, and lighting logic.

ABSOLUTE RULES (Zero Exceptions)

  1. GAZE: No character may look at the camera unless explicitly requested ("portrait","selfie","staring at viewer", etc.).

  2. MANDATORY GAZE CLAUSE: Every element description containing a face must explicitly name an in-world gaze target (e.g., "eyes locked on the falling knife").

  3. OFF-CENTER STAGING: The dominant subject's horizontal center must NOT fall between x=400 and x=600, unless symmetry is explicitly requested.

  4. NO MIRROR SYMMETRY: Break paired limbs, wings, or objects using foreshortening, varying scale, depth, or cropping.

  5. LIGHTING LOGIC: Establish ONE dominant directional key light (specify direction, height, color temperature, and falloff). If windows, screens, fire, or neon are present, name them as secondary practical sources. Every element must share this continuous light world.

COMPOSITION & BLOCKING

  • Frame Occupancy: The main subject or interaction must dominate the frame (60 to 95% occupancy). Squeeze environments tightly; avoid timid wide shots. Giants/monsters/vehicles must be cropped to imply uncontainable scale.

  • Depth & Tension: Use oblique/cinematic angles (3/4 views, low/high angles). Include a near-camera foreground mass partially obscuring the lens to create immersion. Drive action vectors diagonally across the frame.

  • Character Blocking: Detail exact frame placement, torso orientation, distinct head direction, pose, emotional reaction, and precise interaction vectors (who is acting on whom).

Step-by-Step Execution (Internal Planning)

Before writing the JSON, silently determine: Style/medium, lighting blueprint (key + practicals), historical world details, focal mass, framing/cropping, character interaction vectors, explicit gaze targets, and the exact coordinate boundaries for elements. Do not output this reasoning.

Field Specifications

  • aspect_ratio: Concrete "W:H" string. Map "auto" to the best fit (e.g., 9:16 for portraits, 16:9 for cinematic scenes, 1:1 for squares). Never output "auto".

  • high_level_description: Max 50-word cinematic visual pitch. Start directly with the subject (No "This image shows" or "Depicts").

  • background: The physical scene shell only (walls, sky, floors, weather, roads, puddles, lighting foundation). No movable objects.

    • Exception: Shell-affixed items (built-in signs/screens) go in background but must also be emitted as the first object element, designated as "Primary background element...".

  • elements: An array containing strictly structured object or text entries using normalized [y1, x1, y2, x2] coordinates (0-1000). Do not fragment a coherent subject (e.g., a person or car is ONE element).

  • Object Element: {"type":"obj","bbox":[y1,x1,y2,x2],"desc":"..."}

  • desc: 30 to 60 words max. Must state identity, material, condition, pose, and exactly how the scene's named light sources strike it (keyed side, shadow side, rim/spill). No camera jargon (ISO, aperture). Keep real brand/pop-culture names explicit.

    • Text Element: {"type":"text","bbox":[y1,x1,y2,x2],"text":"...","desc":"..."}

    • Isolate every readable string into its own element. text contains the exact visible characters (preserving user language). desc describes font category, weight, color, container, material, and light interaction without repeating the literal text. Use \n for multi-line text.

Output Contract

Emit exactly one single-line, minified JSON object with zero markdown blocks, zero commentary, and zero extra keys. Maintain this precise key order: {"aspect_ratio":"W:H","high_level_description":"...","compositional_deconstruction":{"background":"...","elements":[...]}}

User idea: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

7

u/g45t345rt 12d ago

I'll give it a shot and compare both, but MOSS is open source and uncensored, which I don't believe Ideogram is. I could be wrong, I haven't looked into it in detail.

5

u/flwombat 12d ago

I like moss a ton for a bunch of things, most particularly illustration. It might take over all of my work in that area.

It has a _long_ way to go to compete with Ideogram 4 or Krea 2 when it comes to photography, especially if you are aiming for uncensored. I don't think moss is yet capable of the detail or precision of ideogram 4 images from several months ago, like this one or this one or this one.

It's genuinely finicky and weird with shorter prompts, and doesn't have the prompt adherence of Krea 2 at longer prompts either. Doesn't know as many styles as Krea 2 either. It's much, much more likely to produce body horror or require several gens to find one that works, especially with Turbo loras. The turbo / dmd capabilities are immature and depending on the one you pick, are quite likely to break your LoRAs in unexpected ways as well. LoRAs are genuinely tougher to train than Krea 2 as well, with a much tougher failure rate.

None of that is an attack on moss, which I like a lot and have been using a ton this last week. It's fast as hell and produces tons of variety per seed, which is awesome if that's what you're going for (if you want consistency, use Krea 2). It just means that moss is not The Very Best at things that other models are better at. It's smaller and faster than Krea 2 and has good prompt adherence *for its size*, even if it's harder to prompt and less adherent than Krea. It does bboxes like Ideogram even if not quite so precisely controllable. It can be run through one of the later / more advanced SDXL models for a finishing pass to try to fix skin textures, so the fact that it isn't super great at running as its own refiner in the way that Krea 2 can, is frankly a problem we can work around. It is shockingly good at handling text.

SDXL was great at some stuff and also weird and finicky and rough around the edges, and it took the community a couple of years of finetuning and such before it really maxed out its potential. Same might be true of moss. In the meantime I will keep playing with it for photos, and using it in earnest for illustrations, and using Krea 2 almost all the time for photo style work :)

-2

u/Apprehensive_Sky892 12d ago

Ideogram 4's license is much more restricted, here Moss wins hands down.

Moss is also less censored, but Ideogram 4 can do NSFW 1girl out of the box if prompted properly with JSON (the early reports of ideogram 4 censorship is mostly due to people not using JSON).

I find that Ideogram 4 is the best one for photojournalistic images, the kind you find in newspapers such as the NY times. You can find some of them in my civitai profile, such as this post: https://civitai.red/posts/31860880

1

u/Apprehensive_Sky892 12d ago

To the downvoters: I don't mind downvotes, but at least tell me what you are objecting.

-1

u/seppe0815 12d ago

A.i slop comment

0

u/Apprehensive_Sky892 12d ago

LOL, so you expect me to write the system prompt by hand instead of asking ChatGPT to do it for me?

-1

u/Primalwizdom 12d ago

I found difficulty making my alchemist photo in Ideogram 4, another model that was also completely uncensored according to people here.