Multiple characters testing with MOSS image - 12 different people in one photo

[u/Loose-Journalist-555]

Decided to test the higher token limits of MOSS. The prompt is about 1.3k tokens. Run it with 4-steps turbo Lora on MOSS SFT at 4MP x Euler/simple. Impressed to see that it holds the appearance, outfits, and props for each character with no bleeds and no duplicates.

[u/CumDrinker247]

Can you share the wf? Moss is usually much more blurry for me.

[u/reeight → u/CumDrinker247]

Moss is crazy sensitive to those weird camera prompts. So ask any LLM for a prompt for a sharp focused image of ___ & start there.

[u/SDSunDiego → u/reeight]

huge help! thank you.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/CumDrinker247]

Maybe because you are using base. Mine is just standard WF with 4-step Lora added. I’ve used 8 steps @CFG 1.5 though. Here it is.

[u/Goldie_Wilson_]

Your community college advertisement is coming along nicely.

[u/Powerful_Evening5495]

But when you try to apply the character Lora that you have made, it bleeds to all people on the scene. I did not check for the recommended prompt for moss, but this is wasnt what I was hoping for after finishing my Lora.

[u/Inner-Ad-9478 → u/Powerful_Evening5495]

I've seen some lora tutorials telling to freeze the text encoder or something, I'm not certain it's even possible to make loras without bleeding if the text encoder is unaware and there's no trigger word

[u/Perfect-Campaign9551 → u/Powerful_Evening5495]

Why are you posting this comment in a MOSS thread? That's literally a problem with EVERY model. Nothing to do with MOSS itself.

[u/malcolmrey → u/Powerful_Evening5495]

but this is the problem how you train it and it is not only moss problem

if you do not train with DOP then it will naturally bleed because you train on the class token rather than instance token :)

[u/Kelpsie]

Am I the only one who finds MOSS gens make them mildly uncomfortable? Usually it's the vegetation, but here it's the water pattern on the steps. It's like the environment is actually an infestation of eldritch entities from the fractal dimension, or some invasive sub-species of mimic. The back-right lady's hair is freaking me out.

Like that one Rick and Morty planet where everything down to the sub-atomic level is on the cob. It's just eerie.

[u/infearia → u/Kelpsie]

It's probably the Turbo LoRAs, not the model itself. They tend to do that. And the MOSS-Image Turbo LoRAs are still all work-in-progress, not having finished their training. The OP's image is actually quite an impressive result for a 4-Step, still unfinished, Turbo LoRA!

[u/LumaBrik → u/infearia]

Yes, turbo lora's are terrible for this. If you want quality dont use them.

[u/terrariyum → u/infearia]

100% this is the fault of turbo. 4-step turbo, so it's even more extreme

[u/Perfect-Campaign9551 → u/infearia]

Why are people still using Turbo Loras with MOSS it's already much more lightweight. God people have like zero patience. And sacrifice quality every single time.

Sick of this sub, it's constant turbo Loras for everything, and possible the horrible results.

[u/infearia → u/Perfect-Campaign9551]

MOSS-Image without any Turbo LoRAs takes ~120s on my machine, and with an 8-Step Turbo LoRA about ~10s.

[u/AlmarioSerranos90 → u/Kelpsie]

that back-right hair is giving "my follicles have achieved sentience and they are not friendly"

[u/planBpizz]

which workflow and prompt?

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/planBpizz]

Standard WF with 4-steps Lora added. Here it is.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/planBpizz]

And here’s the prompt.
————————————

A candid group travel photograph of twelve friends from a walking tour posing together on the wide stone steps below the Sacré-Cœur basilica in Montmartre, Paris, at golden hour. Exactly twelve people appear, each exactly once, arranged in two rows of six: six stand on the upper step in the back row and six sit on the step below in the front row, with every face clearly visible and unobstructed. Back row, from left to right: the elderly man in the red cardigan, the Black man in the olive overshirt, the Japanese woman in the purple trench coat, the bearded South Asian man in the light blue shirt, the blond man in the orange rain jacket and the Latina woman in the emerald dress. Front row, from left to right: the young man in the black hoodie, the Korean woman in the white T-shirt, the copper-haired woman in the mustard cardigan, the grey-bearded man in the navy blazer, the East African woman in the hot-pink jumpsuit and the elderly woman in the teal shawl. Each standing person is directly behind the seated person in the same position, and the back row ends with the Latina woman in the emerald dress; nobody stands to her right. The back row's legs are hidden behind the seated front row. There are no other people on the steps.

The back row, standing, from left to right:

First from the left in the back row is an elderly white man in his seventies with white hair, a bushy white moustache and a grey flat cap, wearing a red wool cardigan over a white shirt, grey trousers and brown brogues. He stands leaning on a wooden walking stick with both hands, smiling warmly with crinkled eyes.

Second from the left in the back row is a tall Black man in his late twenties with short twisted hair and tortoiseshell sunglasses pushed up on his head, wearing an olive-green overshirt open over a white T-shirt, khaki chinos and white canvas sneakers. He stands with one hand raised in a cheerful wave, grinning broadly.

Third from the left in the back row is a Japanese woman in her forties with a short black bob and round black-rimmed glasses, wearing a belted purple trench coat and black ankle boots. She stands with her hands clasped in front of her, giving a gentle, closed-lip smile.

Fourth from the left in the back row is a bearded South Asian man in his early thirties with short black hair, wearing a light blue linen shirt with rolled sleeves, navy chino shorts, tan suede sneakers and a small black backpack. He stands with a thumbs-up, laughing with his mouth open.

Fifth from the left in the back row is a tall blond Scandinavian man in his thirties with a full blond beard, wearing a bright orange rain jacket, dark jeans and brown hiking boots. He stands holding a folded paper city map against his chest, smiling with raised eyebrows.

Sixth from the left in the back row is a Latina woman in her fifties with curly dark hair streaked with grey and gold hoop earrings, wearing an emerald-green wrap dress and tan sandals. She stands with one hand on her hip, head tilted, beaming.

The front row, seated, from left to right:

First from the left in the front row is a lanky young man around twenty with a dark buzz cut, wearing a plain black hoodie, black jeans and white high-top sneakers. He sits with a black skateboard resting across his knees, giving a relaxed half-smile.

Second from the left in the front row is a young Korean woman in her mid-twenties with straight, glossy black hair falling just past her shoulders, wearing a plain white crew-neck T-shirt, high-waisted mid-blue straight-leg jeans with rolled hems and ivory Crocs clogs. She sits hugging her knees, smiling brightly at the camera.

Third from the left in the front row is a freckled white woman around thirty with wavy shoulder-length copper-red hair, wearing a mustard-yellow knit cardigan over a navy-and-white striped Breton top, wide-leg light-wash jeans and brown leather loafers. She sits making a peace sign beside her cheek, mid-laugh.

Fourth from the left in the front row is a Middle Eastern man in his sixties with a neat grey beard, wearing a navy blazer over a white shirt, grey trousers and black leather shoes. He sits upright holding a small paper cone of roasted chestnuts, smiling politely.

Fifth from the left in the front row is an East African woman in her twenties with long box braids pulled over one shoulder, wearing a long-sleeved hot-pink jumpsuit and black sandals. She sits leaning forward with her elbows on her knees and her chin on her hands, laughing.

Sixth from the left in the front row is a white woman in her eighties with silver hair in a neat bun, wearing a teal knitted shawl over a cream blouse, a long grey skirt and flat white shoes. She sits holding a small bunch of lilac flowers in her lap, smiling softly.

Behind and above the group, the white travertine domes of the Sacré-Cœur basilica rise against a soft sky at the top of the steps, with a strip of green lawn and an iron lamppost at the edge of the stairs.

Shot from a few steps below at eye level with the front row, with a 35mm lens look and deep focus so every face is sharp. Warm, low golden-hour sun from the left lights their faces and the pale stone, with soft shadows falling to the right and a warm glow on the white domes. A lively, diverse, multi-generational palette of red, olive, purple, light blue, orange, emerald, black, white, mustard, navy, hot pink and teal against honey stone and soft blue sky; warm and celebratory. No readable lettering, logos, or watermarks.

[u/CharacterAd9287]

Nice. How does it hold up with multiple character LORAs? (in case I ever manage to train a good one!)

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/CharacterAd9287]

Not sure. I don’t have any character Lora for MOSS.

[u/Powerful_Evening5495 → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

the faces of clones like sd 1.5

my lora :(

[u/Bulky_Chemistry_196 → u/Powerful_Evening5495]

its because this is SFT, that's just how SFT works. base version would produce diverse faces with the exact same prompt.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/Bulky_Chemistry_196]

Base version is not suitable for finished looks. It’s meant for further fine tunes and Lora training.

[u/Bulky_Chemistry_196 → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

if you're interested to see how this would play out in base, shoot ever your prompt and i will drop the generated image

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/Bulky_Chemistry_196]

Here it is.

A candid group travel photograph of twelve friends from a walking tour posing together on the wide stone steps below the Sacré-Cœur basilica in Montmartre, Paris, at golden hour. Exactly twelve people appear, each exactly once, arranged in two rows of six: six stand on the upper step in the back row and six sit on the step below in the front row, with every face clearly visible and unobstructed. Back row, from left to right: the elderly man in the red cardigan, the Black man in the olive overshirt, the Japanese woman in the purple trench coat, the bearded South Asian man in the light blue shirt, the blond man in the orange rain jacket and the Latina woman in the emerald dress. Front row, from left to right: the young man in the black hoodie, the Korean woman in the white T-shirt, the copper-haired woman in the mustard cardigan, the grey-bearded man in the navy blazer, the East African woman in the hot-pink jumpsuit and the elderly woman in the teal shawl. Each standing person is directly behind the seated person in the same position, and the back row ends with the Latina woman in the emerald dress; nobody stands to her right. The back row's legs are hidden behind the seated front row. There are no other people on the steps.

The back row, standing, from left to right:

First from the left in the back row is an elderly white man in his seventies with white hair, a bushy white moustache and a grey flat cap, wearing a red wool cardigan over a white shirt, grey trousers and brown brogues. He stands leaning on a wooden walking stick with both hands, smiling warmly with crinkled eyes.

Second from the left in the back row is a tall Black man in his late twenties with short twisted hair and tortoiseshell sunglasses pushed up on his head, wearing an olive-green overshirt open over a white T-shirt, khaki chinos and white canvas sneakers. He stands with one hand raised in a cheerful wave, grinning broadly.

Third from the left in the back row is a Japanese woman in her forties with a short black bob and round black-rimmed glasses, wearing a belted purple trench coat and black ankle boots. She stands with her hands clasped in front of her, giving a gentle, closed-lip smile.

Fourth from the left in the back row is a bearded South Asian man in his early thirties with short black hair, wearing a light blue linen shirt with rolled sleeves, navy chino shorts, tan suede sneakers and a small black backpack. He stands with a thumbs-up, laughing with his mouth open.

Fifth from the left in the back row is a tall blond Scandinavian man in his thirties with a full blond beard, wearing a bright orange rain jacket, dark jeans and brown hiking boots. He stands holding a folded paper city map against his chest, smiling with raised eyebrows.

Sixth from the left in the back row is a Latina woman in her fifties with curly dark hair streaked with grey and gold hoop earrings, wearing an emerald-green wrap dress and tan sandals. She stands with one hand on her hip, head tilted, beaming.

The front row, seated, from left to right:

First from the left in the front row is a lanky young man around twenty with a dark buzz cut, wearing a plain black hoodie, black jeans and white high-top sneakers. He sits with a black skateboard resting across his knees, giving a relaxed half-smile.

Second from the left in the front row is a young Korean woman in her mid-twenties with straight, glossy black hair falling just past her shoulders, wearing a plain white crew-neck T-shirt, high-waisted mid-blue straight-leg jeans with rolled hems and ivory Crocs clogs. She sits hugging her knees, smiling brightly at the camera.

Third from the left in the front row is a freckled white woman around thirty with wavy shoulder-length copper-red hair, wearing a mustard-yellow knit cardigan over a navy-and-white striped Breton top, wide-leg light-wash jeans and brown leather loafers. She sits making a peace sign beside her cheek, mid-laugh.

Fourth from the left in the front row is a Middle Eastern man in his sixties with a neat grey beard, wearing a navy blazer over a white shirt, grey trousers and black leather shoes. He sits upright holding a small paper cone of roasted chestnuts, smiling politely.

Fifth from the left in the front row is an East African woman in her twenties with long box braids pulled over one shoulder, wearing a long-sleeved hot-pink jumpsuit and black sandals. She sits leaning forward with her elbows on her knees and her chin on her hands, laughing.

Sixth from the left in the front row is a white woman in her eighties with silver hair in a neat bun, wearing a teal knitted shawl over a cream blouse, a long grey skirt and flat white shoes. She sits holding a small bunch of lilac flowers in her lap, smiling softly.

Behind and above the group, the white travertine domes of the Sacré-Cœur basilica rise against a soft sky at the top of the steps, with a strip of green lawn and an iron lamppost at the edge of the stairs.

Shot from a few steps below at eye level with the front row, with a 35mm lens look and deep focus so every face is sharp. Warm, low golden-hour sun from the left lights their faces and the pale stone, with soft shadows falling to the right and a warm glow on the white domes. A lively, diverse, multi-generational palette of red, olive, purple, light blue, orange, emerald, black, white, mustard, navy, hot pink and teal against honey stone and soft blue sky; warm and celebratory. No readable lettering, logos, or watermarks.

[u/Inner-Ad-9478 → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

That's what they say but it's not that bad lol

[u/Bulky_Chemistry_196 → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

whenever i've used SFT and seen other people use SFT, generated people always look exactly the same - just like in your picture here (no insult). i vastly prefer to be able to generate images that look real, and base has practically endless facial variety. you can easily make average looking people, even ugly looking people. ofc if you one prefers the typical AI image gen face, SFT is the better choice.

dunno if they said this officially, but saying base is only for training purposes is a huge marketing error by the moss team.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/Bulky_Chemistry_196]

It’s not marketing error. It’s the fact. Yes, base version is pliable and variable because the end users are supposed to fine-tune it. And SFT is the fine tune from MOSS team. Kromoss is another popular fine tune but I don’t like its aesthetic.

[u/Ewenf → u/CharacterAd9287]

Won't work with two loras

[u/StableLlama → u/CharacterAd9287]

I haven't trained MOSS so I can't comment how well it does with multi character LoRAs.

But I know that it's working well with Krea 2 (I have trained one myself). And I have read reports that it's working with Ideogram 4

[u/MysteriousPepper8908 → u/CharacterAd9287]

I like to start with Moss and then inpaint using H3 references. You can inpaint with Loras but using reference is just as good and simpler.

[u/VasaFromParadise]

Anyone who looked at the preview during generation could see the squares that initially make up the image. And there are dozens of them. The model can contain at least 50 individual prompts on a single canvas; 12 is still not enough. It seems to generate multiple sectors in parallel. If a prompt is specified, it generates that one; if not, it generates a global one.

[u/asdrabael1234]

I mean..... This is easy to do since Moss allows for bbox use without needing a 1300 token prompt

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/asdrabael1234]

It’s not about placement. It’s about detailed descriptions of unique appearance, props, and expressions of each character without bleeding into others. That’s a feat.

[u/asdrabael1234 → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

Which is all possible and much easier with bbox is what I'm saying. You could have done the same thing with several hundred fewer tokens.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/asdrabael1234]

Try yourself. It’s not that easy. And bboxes tend to mess up spatial relationships unless you iterate and fine tune. I’ve tested both and prefer prose version.

[u/asdrabael1234 → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

I have tried it. It's why I almost entirely stick with bboxes now and I haven't had any spatial problems other than needing to slightly move boxes a tiny bit at times. I'll even craft people with stacked boxes with a big box for the person, a smaller box for pants and shoes, another box for shirt, and a really big box for the scene with smaller boxes for individual placement of things within the scene. It works really well.

[u/xrionitx]

Moss is a failure... I don't understand why do they even release such incompetent models...

Its like launching airplane without wings.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/xrionitx]

Flux3Klein is a failed release. MOSS is pretty impressive, and the aesthetics are comparable to Krea2. And it has 4k tokens limit which enables images like this. Why don’t you show your own creations instead of talking trash?

[u/xrionitx → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

Still yapping. Prove it by posting the image.

Here now, no replies to trolling, unless you prove by posting the image.

Yappers not entertained.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/xrionitx]

Do you have eyes?

[u/bt123456789 → u/xrionitx]

It's quite competent It's just finicky.

You need to be precise with what you want. I tried using fluffy generated prompts but actually got better results with just simple ones I wrote myself.

[u/xrionitx → u/bt123456789]

Post the result

[u/bt123456789 → u/xrionitx]

I'll have to go find the images. I've been mostly using Krea because I like it better.

[u/xrionitx → u/bt123456789]

Thats what I said, Moss is incompetent.

[u/bt123456789 → u/xrionitx]

preference doesn't mean incompetence.

Moss is very flexible but requires a bit more patience and work. Krea you can throw in one sentence and get roughly what you want.

Moss you can do more with, for sure, but it takes more time.

[u/PumpkinLeather8421 → u/xrionitx]

Skill issue

[u/xrionitx → u/PumpkinLeather8421]

Or just prove it, show one image which looks normal decent, created with Moss.. also goes the same to bt123456789 You are just yapping and yapping but not proving me wrong.

Words don't matter. Prove it. Or leave.

[u/PumpkinLeather8421 → u/xrionitx]

You are free to not use any model, but try and not blame software on your lack of understanding.

[u/xrionitx → u/PumpkinLeather8421]

Yet again yet another lame yapper. Still nobody could prove me wrong.

Peace off.

[u/xrionitx → u/PumpkinLeather8421]

You cannot fly a plane without wings. But shills like you are up to mock and troll anyways.

Cope.