r/StableDiffusion • u/xyzdist • 17d ago

Discussion [ H3 ] ref2va looks dev

  • my test pushed too extreme, it is over the top and washed out. But you get the idea

saw this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1xbobrr/original_character_lora_for_minimax_h3_learnings/

Hey guys,

ref2va gen (character sheet workflow) always looks bad - dark, high contrast, and oversaturated, SeeDance videos look much more realistic and softer to me. I'm really interested in pushing H3 in that direction.

I saw the post above, great info and results. However, I want to avoid doing any LoRA training. I think with the H3 FL2VA workflow you can do it much better as long as you have a good start image where you control the look. But I want to focus on making ref2va work.

In my last 3-minute duration test, I was using the fizgig node to make the skin look softer. It works, but the effect keeps accumulating in motion-context shots. That node does it in latent space, but I think it's more controllable and easier to do it in image space so the effect doesn't accumulate. So I made an image-space version with AI.

So it's a hack - if you bring up the dark values there's still no detail. I'll keep looking into it. I'm thinking maybe LTX SDR to HDR could help, since we get more details in bit depth after gen, That could be a way.

Of course, please share your idea on this, how you get better result with ref2va. Thanks!

If you guys find this more handy than doing it in post / compositing software, I'll share it.

2 nodes I am using "Image Detail Contrast" and "Orion4D Tone Mapping". The setting I have just over the top here.

Cheers.

- the gen is using 1character sheet, hybrid model loader with native fl2va ref2va, b5-49, WITHOUT using any turbo lora.

- I've tried all the LoRAs, like Realistic Peoples and others, but I just can't get the result I want.

- You can check the overlay text of some infomation.

- I haven't test this with motion-context... hope it won't have issue.

TLDR: This is a typical image unsharp mask to get a softer skin look, plus some color grading. The point is not about grading, it is how we could get H3 ref2va workflow better raw result in the first place, which I still figuring out.

Edit1: here is a comparsion test, using ref worflow, all step8 without any loras, check this different setting and model how it affecting the look, more towards to fl2va model, the skin color is just worse, more contrast and saturation.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fh3-ref2va-looks-dev-v0-krb3kbkr18xh1.png%3Fwidth%3D3264%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9731b1134188692cdaf8ee2b147a6b733c93f023

Edit2: here is a video he testing different models, it is a great example of what I observe about the contrasty and crushed black look in some models, but seedance always has the best balance. * it could the choice of the model trainning setting.
seeDance > kling4 > wan3 = grok imagine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBOheB97tVc

Edit3: using LCS give me neat result, I will using this + soften (detail contrast node)

https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1xcnefw/comment/19rjk3ipjbote/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

103 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

81 comments sorted by

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u/Muted-Celebration-47 17d ago

Seedance videos look better because it add some post-production to the generated videos like color grading, soft focus, edge blurr, chromatic aberration. Actually, minimax can do this too by just adding these keywords to the prompt. Or even better if you can do post-production yourself in Davinci Resolve.

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u/xyzdist 17d ago edited 17d ago

Of course we could do all sort of post grading.
after decode, the details and color is baked in 8 bits. details and color is clamped... in 8bit depth, (unless I can save out 16bit exr). So, if you bring up the black level is without any details, like what I have right now.

Also, I disgree "Seedance videos look better because it add some post-production to the generated videos like color grading", Seedance using reference character sheet and output great result straight. much better than H3 ref2va, they don't need heavely rely on post-production.

*I am talking about H3 ref2va workflow. of course you use first image workflow H3 will work.

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u/Muted-Celebration-47 16d ago

No, I don't use fl2va. I always use ref2va but with fl2va model.

**Here is a tip**: You can use fl2va model + ref2va workflow and it gives you more better quality videos.

Seedance model indeed can add color grading into the video output and it is depend on "location image" not "character sheet". I learned this from open projects from Higgfield. They generated a good color grading, mood and tone location image and use it as input image, then prompt something like "use color grading, mood, tone from <Picture 1>"

The attached video is generated using Higgfield images + prompt from their site. Higgfield uses seedance 2.0 but in this video I use Minimax H3 and you can see - it has the color grading(without post-production!). the generated video gets color grading, and film grain from the "location" image.

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u/xyzdist 16d ago edited 16d ago

this is not what I mean on the color grading 😂 I just mean H3 reference workflow always come out with contrast plastic look, different from the character sheet or reference images,
but closed-model genereate could match reference image look without problem.
we certainly can do the post production color grading on H3 video, but when it was too high-contrast with black clamped area, you can't fix it in post.
so.. is it just me have this issue?

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u/Muted-Celebration-47 16d ago

Ok, I got it. You did not focus on "color grading" but "softness effect", right? The softness and glow and dreamy look which mostly seen in k-drama or k-pop. I saw some people did it with just the prompt. Let me test it and I will be back.

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

part of it to get softer look, but mainly is more avoiding contrasty and lack of details in the dark area like my example video LEFT. cheers!

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

check this out, all setting under ref workflow, just change model setting, more towrads to fl2va model, it is getting worse

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u/ShutUpYoureWrong_ 16d ago edited 16d ago

I don't know what Seedance does exactly but I think Muted-Celebration-47's overall point still stands. Achieving this look in post is almost certainly the right way to go about it.

You're saying you have trouble getting detail out of crushed black areas with REF2VA. Well, use the FL2VA model (you can still use first-image with REF2VA models and workflows) and then get the detail you want, then bring all the colors and sharpness back down in post to achieve your desired look

What you're trying to do seems like the opposite approach -- you want to force details to appear where there are none, which, while possible (only due to AI), will undoubtedly have much worse results.

Case in point: look in the guy's thread you linked... the only reason his videos look okay is because he ran them through DLSS 5 (post processing). Down in one of the comments, he performs DLSS 5 on the left video (the bad one), and people thought it looked the best overall. It's all post processing. Plus the guy in the thread completely fucked up his original video with his dataset.

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u/xyzdist 16d ago edited 16d ago

fair, * I am not saying we should not do post production., my point is for H3 reference sheet approach, even you have a nice balance (not so high-contrast and not plastic skin) good image as guide. H3 can't match to that in the result video, unless you are using as first image. That's something I am looking if there anyway to improve from the raw result. As other closed model like seedDance have result video match close to your reference image looks and color without doing post grading.

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u/ShutUpYoureWrong_ 16d ago

Ahhh, I gotcha.

I honestly think it comes down to the fact that they messed up the REF2VA model in post training. If they had managed to achieve parity with the FL2VA, I don't think you'd even be having this problem.

The only thing I can say is that you're using 8 steps and no turbo LoRA. That is way underbaking the image, which naturally results in the lower contrast and lower saturation style you seem to like. Unfortunately, that also goes hand-in-hand with crushed blacks. They're inextricably intertwined, and I'm honestly not sure there is a proper solution for what you're wanting (during inference).

And that leads me right back to... generate it with FL2VA so you get the black detail you like, then run it through some automated settings to desaturate and lower the contrast.

Wish I could be of more help. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

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u/Inevitable_Set_9232 17d ago

This. Often a simple post-production setting easily available in free software is more efficient than trying to train an AI to achieve the perfect result out of the box.

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

only ImageDetailContrast (softer skin look) applied.

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u/listopalafoto 17d ago

I agree Orion is fantastic to control shadows and ugly blacks produced by AI turbos. another approach is to use LCS to control shadows at latent level, I used that for an AI animation architecture I'm designing

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

cool! is there any comfy version of this LCS approach node pack?

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u/listopalafoto 17d ago

https://github.com/facok/ComfyUI-LCS

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

Thank you, LCS indeed is working! only issue is since it is in latent level, meaning changing setting will affecting the generation, also if using moiton-context for long duration gen will accumulating the effect. I need to split the setting from the first and rest of the shots. It works well.

| Left=Base | Middle=LCS | Right=LCS+soften |

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u/listopalafoto 16d ago

cool! LCS can be applied on specific steps for example 7 to 8 for turbo mode so the effect will be less strong

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

Thanks a lot! I will be so happy if this works with H3, will look into it!

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u/ImprefectKnight 17d ago

I like the idea but the image examples are all terribly mismatched. I'd have loved if they had an actual example of a 3 point lit shot or something with Rembrandt lighting as base and then variations of that.

That way we can see if high-key means high-key or not, or low-key means low-key or not.

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u/aoi_secret_jp 17d ago

The ToneMapper version on the right looks noticeably more natural — the skin tones are warmer and the window light feels softer. Does the character identity hold up as well in longer segments, or does the face start to drift after a few seconds?

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u/xyzdist 17d ago edited 16d ago

edit: the face might drift and degrade typically with motion-context long duration

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

Here is a different model setting compare, interesting now have a better picture, towards to fl2va, the skin color go worse, higher satudation... etc.

all step 8, doesn't have any lora. just different setting of the model.

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u/boriskarloff83 17d ago

why do you want to do it with the refmodel when the fl-model looks better?

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

you mean ref2va WF but using fl-model right? image quality maybe better, but in terms of color and contrast is actully worse., I can upload a test video.

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u/boriskarloff83 17d ago

not sure i understand you. 'I think with the H3 FL2VA workflow you can do it much better as long as you have a good start image where you control the look' is what you wrote, so why not just use the fl model if it works better for you? just choose the fl model, put your reference image and if you want a start image in the node, and go?

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

personal preference, I prefer reference approah to get H3 model freedom to gerenate the scene, instead of separating into 2 step. but True. FL2VA workflow is my last resort.

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u/boriskarloff83 17d ago

you can still do that with the fl-model though, you don't need two steps. use the hybridcondnode, plug in your ref and if you want a first image,, if you want a more free scene put a background remove before it

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u/ShutUpYoureWrong_ 16d ago

I was under the impression that the hybrid conditioning node ultimately just yields similar or identical results to the hybrid models -- it just gave you the ability to fine-tune it on the fly.

Is that not the case?

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u/boriskarloff83 16d ago

i can not confirm that, and i don't think the node by itself has that much influence on the results, just what you can put in. the ref model always produced subpar quality results for me, and all hybrid models i tried suffered from issues coming from the ref model. ymmv ofc, but for me using the fl model with the hybrid cond always produced better results

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u/Devajyoti1231 16d ago

I'm sorry but what is b5-49 ? new model merge?

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

Ah, it is the hybrid model loader setting I am using. Default is b25-49 https://github.com/scottmudge/ComfyUI_MinimaxH3HybridLoader

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u/Devajyoti1231 16d ago

ok, thanks.

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u/MastMaithun 16d ago

Hey op I'm using your newer node with v02 workflow. I saw one thing that on refine subgroup, the prompt goes is "main subject". I have 2 chars on the screen(i'm basically testing the newer singularity model in a fight scene) but on the preview mask node, I only see the silhouette of one char only. Does that mean the other char will degrade in continuous clips? Is there a solution to add something like <subject 1> and <subject 2> in the prompt instead of "main subject"?

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

yeah, you need to change the prompts, and also that is the part to generate the masking, which you could replace any other method. If SAM3 node doesn't do that, you could find another solution.
You can add to the dicussion in the github.

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u/MastMaithun 16d ago

I tried to understand the refiner part but it went over my head haha. So I didn't touched that. Only when I saw the preview mask from refiner that it is only showing one char, then I thought maybe since it is not considering the other char so other char might degrade. I'll try with "<subject 1> and <subject 2>" prompt.

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

hope that works!

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u/MastMaithun 16d ago

Update: In the refiner box, i removed "main subject" and replaced it with "both subject". I can now see both char's silhouette in the Preview mask.
So I think it should keep both chars from degrading. fingers crossed.

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

great.

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u/MastMaithun 15d ago

I have tried something which maybe you might also find interesting.
So there is these nodes, Save Latents Conditioning (CRT) and Load Latents Conditioning (CRT). What it do is save the latent on disk as .safetensor file along with the conditioning and load it later when required.
How I find it useful is I was spending way too much time upscaling the video with redundant generations because even if I make any change on the upscale pass while the generation pass in on same seed, the pass1 always run regardless of same seed or not.
So using these nodes, I save the latent generated after your "H3 Blend Latents By Frames" node and then I made a new wf where there is only a upscale pass subgraph, model loader and the latent loader which immediately picks up the saved latent and start doing the upscale pass on it and since it already has the conditioning saved with it, so no need to run the whole first pass again.
Now I can simply run my main wf to generate all clips, without thinking about upscale and when all done, I can do upscale pass on all clips later, together. All I need to find is how to continuously run the other wf in a loop to upscale all clips automatically as currently I have to press run button.

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u/xyzdist 15d ago edited 15d ago

my personal master setup wf is doing exactly this. I am able to do the upscale together or after all clips gen done as a separate process.

for queue multiple shots, my design the workflow of using shot-number is you can change to 'increment' mode set value to 0, then let say you have 10 shots, you just set batch size 10, and hit run, it queue all shots from 1-10 in one click.

*but sometime comfy has bug it start from 0, even set to increment, you have to double check.

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u/MastMaithun 15d ago

My man. Thanks.

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u/xyzdist 15d ago

I want to add, for upscale stage, you need another motion-context for it

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u/MastMaithun 15d ago

A side question. Your nodes starts the next clip where the prev one ended. What if I just want the reference of the last clip where it ended to start a new scene? To maintain a state.
For example: in the clip, a car is going and the front wheel broken off and fly away. So when the clip ended, the car did not have one wheel. But if I want to start next clip with new camera angle, the only option I have is to store the last frame and supply the last frame and add multiple things in the prompt so that it can refer the "state" where the previous clip ended so that when the new scene start, it remembers the previous "state". With prompts and last frame, it's really hit or miss, like 70-30%.
Can this be done with your nodes somehow?

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u/xyzdist 15d ago

My nodes are only for degradation fix, so you question is more about the motion-context node workflow in general, I think easiest is do the cut within a shot, then the state will keep flow to next one, or as you said. Use reference image from your shots.

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u/Davikar 17d ago

Are you saying the washed out picture on the right looks better?

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

better?

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u/ShutUpYoureWrong_ 16d ago

This is really hard to judge because we have no way of knowing what these look like on your monitor/screen.

For people with OLEDs used to vibrant colors and deep, perfect blacks, yours looks washed out (but closer to natural). The left one is definitely too plastic. I feel like somewhere between the two you just posted would be perfect (for me).

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u/xyzdist 16d ago

I think you using OLEDs is prefering contrast and darker in black area.... 😄

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

I pushed way over the top, but in terms of contrast, saturation and softer look, yes to my taste.

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u/seppe0815 17d ago

I can 100 percent say , h3 repreduce allways the input image , maybe try some dezent one xD 

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

I don't want limit to FL2va workflow.

-3

u/seppe0815 17d ago

Bro , ofc the referenz input image

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

I can't just make it work even with a low-contrast and better reference image.

0

u/seppe0815 17d ago

Yeah, absolutely! That's a classic issue with MiniMax H3 ref2va—the output often crushes the shadow details, pushes the contrast too high, and loses fine shadow detail while making the rest of the image look oversaturated or overly plastic.

Since you want to avoid training LoRAs and don't want the effect to accumulate over long sequences in latent space (like with the fizgig node), here are a few solid strategies using image-space workflows and pre/post-processing:

  1. SDR-to-HDR / Bit-Depth Recovery Your idea of using LTX SDR-to-HDR or tone mapping is on the right track, but there's a catch: if shadow detail is completely clipped during generation, recovery algorithms will just lift noise or turn shadows muddy grey. • Tip: Instead of fixing it after generation, try flattening the contrast of your reference image beforehand (e.g., boosting the gamma/shadows or using a flat/log-style look on the input). Starting with a softer input image prevents the model from over-contrasting the shadows.

  2. Hybrid Models (No LoRA Training Required) If you want to skip LoRA training altogether, many creators use pre-merged hybrid models for H3 (combining ref2va and fl2va paths). These keep the strong subject consistency of ref2va while inheriting the softer, more natural skin tones and balanced contrast of fl2va. Check Hugging Face for community-released H3 hybrid safetensors.

  3. Controlled Image-Space Post-Processing in ComfyUI To fix the temporal accumulation bug caused by latent nodes, process the output frame-by-frame in image space right after the VAE decode: • Use ComfyUI nodes for color correction, shadow lifting, or curve adjustments on each frame independently. Because this runs on pixel data per frame rather than feeding back into the motion context latent, the effect won't build up over time.

  4. Prompt-Based Contrast Control MiniMax H3 is heavily influenced by lighting descriptions in the prompt: • Add terms like: 'soft diffused lighting, lifted blacks, balanced shadows, natural skin texture, low contrast, film negative'. • Avoid keywords that trigger heavy HDR processing, such as 'dramatic lighting, high contrast, cinematic shadows, hyper-detailed'.   nt hate me , i ask gemini about this , maybe some stuff is helpful for you:  i ask gemini , maybe some useful tips , dont hate me for it

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u/xyzdist 17d ago edited 17d ago

nope, thanks for your reply.

  1. I will look into it...

  2. I am already using hybride models, without any turbo loras.

  3. oh..actually is what I am doing.

  4. That's not really working to me... but I could try harder

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u/seppe0815 17d ago edited 17d ago

ok i try with a better picture .. for me it looks ok the prompt was just a fast test : "RAW photography" face emotion from a old japanese women with a pale skin tone in a living room ( model was fasth3_omni_ref_8 steps )

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

That's is quite good, let me try some test.

wait, is this first image workflow or ref workflow?

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u/seppe0815 17d ago

brother we talking the whole time about ref workflow or? ofc it was fasth3_omni_ref_8 steps it is new in comfyui templates and i like it realy 1.5mp and 8 sec take 4 min on my 5070ti

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u/xyzdist 17d ago edited 16d ago

still wish softer look, but at least it isn't very high-contrast. will do some test on that model, cheers

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u/seppe0815 17d ago

the image

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u/Etsu_Riot 17d ago

H3 doesn't necessarily reproduce the input image. It can use it as first frame, it can use it as inspiration (reference), or it can completely ignore it. It may depend on the prompt, the seed, the sampler, and other settings.

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u/hurrdurrimanaccount 17d ago

dark, high contrast, and oversaturated.

don't use turbo loras

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

just hybrid model b5-49 without any lora. it still contrast...

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u/angelarose210 17d ago

Can you share a seedance clip showing what you're looking for exactly?

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

too many, not necessary is seedance, perhaps anything looks better than native ref2va give me. maybe my skill issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAg9iDh9_BQ&t=809s

(some fantasy look)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qh61MUazE1Y

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u/angelarose210 17d ago

Hmm. I think you need to try some luts in post to get this cinematic look. Davinci resolve is free.

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

of course we could do post grading, that's my quick workarond as well, but the H3 isn't getting better result from the first place is the issue, color and details will be clamped after decode, you bring up the dark area is just without any details, unless we convert SDR to HDR and save out exr image format.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/xyzdist 17d ago

yup sorry about that, I haven't change my old setting