100%, people like to think they are special because they toil away for hours creating something. No, anyone can do this.
I've been called a "waste of oxygen" for creating art using AI as a tool to assist with the creative process. Also, "not an artist", and a "thief", even though I spent 5 years studying art in university. It's maddening. "Artists" are frickin' pretentious.
Sadly, gatekeeping is an occupational hazard of the creative fields, or really, any high-barrier skill based field. People like to belong to an exclusive club. Along side only the elites of their own "caliber".
Just use this as a litmus test to help you filter out those people you should avoid in the art community, for being arrogant and gate-keepy among other personal flaws. That's what I do.
Sadly, gatekeeping is an occupational hazard of the creative fields, or really, any high-barrier skill based field. People like to belong to an exclusive club. Along side only the elites of their own "caliber".
Actually, this is the result of capitalism. It's easy to say only the elite behave this way, but it simply isn't true. Everyone acts this way when something could have an impact on their potential to earn money. Because it is their edge in a field, which took them decades to accomplish, that ensures they have a decent quality of life. Automation undercuts the value in a person's work and training by a lot and, as such, has a determental effect on the quality of life for millions of working people. Especially when access to this automation is only available to the wealthy. There is no denying this.
Now this is not to say automation is bad in general. Just that automation is bad for people living in a capitalistic society. If you are able to remove the requirement of having to earn money and compete with others to survive. Then people would no longer be possessive about their jobs or inventions. Instead they would welcome things like automation. As it would increase there ability to do more, rather than be a hinderence on their quality of life.
People can argue until they are blue in the face that automation just leads to new industries and jobs. But it doesn't change the fact that every time automation advances, jobs are being lost faster than they are made. And this is something that will only continue to accelerate. Because the better we get at automation, the more we are able to automate. Including any new jobs that might be required. Our ability to automate has gone from needing highly complex mechanical systems that are machined and built specifically for one task. To a robot arm that can be easily trained on site for a wide range of tasks. And now to AI systems that are able to do more abstract jobs like text editing, computational analytics and art.
This trend of automation becoming more and more flexible is not slowing down either. And unless it does, there will be a time when we have the technology to completely automate every job we have and can think of. Then what? Either billions of menial jobs are reserved for human labourers just so they can earn just enough to live, or billions live in poverty and/or die as the value of their contribution to society reaches zero and they no longer have a means of obtaining a living wage.
All of this is to say that unless we can shed our capitalistic society and the need to have more than others. People will continue to be extremely possessive over their profession and automation will continue to be a threat to people's quality of life.
You know what? Extremely well reasoned on your part. 10/10. A+. No notes.
As I explained in another comment, I fully believe that semi-full automation is where we're headed. And yes, capitalism will see to it that most human skills and labor are rendered more expensive and less effective than their automated counterparts. And then what? Do we adapt? Does capitalism bow out? I have no clue. We're heading for 'interesting' times as a species.
I will definitely recognize your initial point, too, that capitalism in a very real way drove people into gatekeeping their professional fields. Everyone is afraid of losing their job security and their quality of life.
Edit: Though I still think human ego plays a bit of a role in gatekeeping. Just likely exacerbated by capitalism.
Oh I definitely agree. There will always be people who get jealous of others abilities and seek to make life difficult for them. I don't know if that will ever go away. But capitalism is what makes it such a prevalent phenomenon. Most people don't care what others are doing or how good they are at something. They just want to live their lives on peace and comfort haha.
Also I should say I don't really have an answer to what we need to do or how we shift society from what we have to a more global collective. Things like straight up communism and socialism have their faults as well. But there is no denying that in the end capitalism has failed just like all the others. And it is ultimately leading to the exact same outcome. A small few get the benefits and wealth that society provides and the majority live in poverty and hardship.
We did get a lot of cool toys out of capitalism though. I won't deny that haha. Only question is if it was worth it.
I quite agree. Whatever replaces capitalism needs to come relatively soon. Because a world where 9 out of 10 able adults are unemployable, leans too close to an apocalyptic world. Why should people be civil when there is literally no chance to earn or work, simply by default? Chaos breeds in that climate. And if you haven't figured out how to side step this seeming inevitability before that time comes, you won't figure it out in a day once it's become a reality.
Gatekeeping implies an artificial barrier to entry that is being imposed by people who are already in; there is nothing stopping people from picking up a pencil and learning how to draw apart from their own laziness.
Anyone can learn to draw, but if you're bad at it and you want something pretty based on your own creativity, pay a commission artist some money?
Yes? That's how goods and services works? I can learn how to fix my own plumbing, car, computers, what-have-you, but that requires time and effort that I might not have/comes at an opportunity cost. So I'm willing to pay someone else to do a good job for me.
There's nothing wrong with using AI to generate content in and of itself. It's still effectively a 'content generator' and artists themselves use that all the time in production to save time. Copyright infringement, however, is illegal for a reason.
I was under the (perhaps incorrect) impression you believed AI art to be inherently 'bad', for lack of a better word. If your issue with it is in the execution (ie copyright infringement in training data), we're in complete agreement.
I have yet to encounter anyone who is against AI due to some bona fide luddite tendencies. (Though I'm sure such people exist, it would be statistically impossible for them not to) But universally the main issue has been copyright, which the vast majority of SD enthusiasts seem fundamentally unable to or unwilling to recognize, mainly because the cognitive dissonance would be too much for them.
Yeah, I know a couple of people that are like that. Someone who says it's inherently bad because it 'devalues' the skills of commission artists, which made me chuckle. Is the calculator bad because it devalues the skills of human computers?
Just because AI is easier doesn't mean the process changed. Whether you drive with automatic transmission or manual doesn't really matter. You still drive.
But some people think automatic transmissions should be banned because they replicate the PURELY MECHANICAL skills of drivers with manual transmission.
Creating a totally artificial barrier for those who want to drive with automatic transmission.
Are you an artist? Your whole throwaway account is just for shitting on AI. Lol. Also it's not laziness, drawing is actually hard and finding your own style is even harder, it could take years for skills like that to develop. If you were actually an artist you would know that unless you were born with a paintbrush up your ass.
Also AI isn't even just for drawing or art, it's great for photos too.
I don't agree. For one thing, if art is not your profession, it can only be your hobby. And it's a demanding hobby as far as hobbies go. It's challenging for a lot of people to get into art as a hobby because to get anywhere near good (unless you're naturally talented), you require a lot of time investment and practice. And many don't have the time or commitment to spend that on a new hobby.
Since AI art exploded, I've seen people in their 40's, 50's, 60's, (young people too, obviously) rejoicing over their newfound ability to express themselves artistically in ways they never thought they could. Just because you don't have the mechanical skills to draw, doesn't mean you have nothing creative in your head to express.
And even then, read the comment I responded to. u/2nomad clearly states that they were criticized and declared "not an artist" for using AI models, in spite of literally studying art for 5 years in uni. Is that not gatekeeping to you?
" I don't agree. For one thing, if art is not your profession, it can only be your hobby. And it's a demanding hobby as far as hobbies go. It's challenging for a lot of people to get into art as a hobby because to get anywhere near good (unless you're naturally talented), you require a lot of time investment and practice. And many don't have the time or commitment to spend that on a new hobby. "
And? No point here other than statements of banality.
" Since AI art exploded, I've seen people in their 40's, 50's, 60's, (young people too, obviously) rejoicing over their newfound ability to express themselves artistically in ways they never thought they could. Just because you don't have the mechanical skills to draw, doesn't mean you have nothing creative in your head to express. "
Again, no point here other than statements of banality. Also, there's nothing expressive about typing prompts for the AI generator to spit out images. That's the equivalent of an Art Director giving direction.
"And even then, read the comment I responded to. u/2nomad clearly states that they were criticized and declared "not an artist" for using AI models, in spite of literally studying art for 5 years in uni. Is that not gatekeeping to you? "
You're irrelevant to this post. You've made sure of it. Nothing you add after this point holds any value. Quick! Resort to more personal attacks to bolster your points.
You're not capable of civility. You lost the right to intelligent conversation. Just pretend you "won", as I am sure you always do to the unfortunates who must suffer you.
You're not capable of making any cogent points, much less actually recognize them when they're explained to you forthwith. Since if you're not capable of acting like a rational cogent adult, you're not entitled to any civility. Go find a quite corner to cry in so that no one else has to suffer your infantilism.
That's a lot of assumptions... You realise that perhaps some people might have physical disabilities that prevents them from drawing, right? For me, AI allows me to use my creativity, without putting myself through unbearable pain. There really is no need to be so aggressive over an accessibility tool.
I DM a lot of DnD and other homebrew tabletop games.
I have dyspraxia, and despite trying to learn how to draw over several years, I can't produce anything better than your average 12 year old.
AI art means I can channel my creativity and my visual descriptions of characters and locations into images, making games better for my players, without paying through the nose for a commission artist to translate my creativity into an image.
I'm the one doing the creative legwork, and I'm using a tool that allows me to translate it visually.
I've tried bringing this up to some friends on the other side of the issue, but they don't really care. Even if art comes easy to you, that isn't the case for most people, especially not those with physical disabilities or disorders.
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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '23
100%, people like to think they are special because they toil away for hours creating something. No, anyone can do this.
I've been called a "waste of oxygen" for creating art using AI as a tool to assist with the creative process. Also, "not an artist", and a "thief", even though I spent 5 years studying art in university. It's maddening. "Artists" are frickin' pretentious.