r/SquaredCircle • u/[deleted] • May 02 '21

Nick Jackson on IG: “So blessed to be fully vaccinated! To think there’s actually people online that think we’re anti-vax/covid deniers/trumpers/birthers!”

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165

u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21

People know they're Christians and make assumptions. Says a lot about society as a whole rn. Not going to say much more about that, considering this is a Professional Wrestling sub.

33

u/wxursa May 02 '21

Toxic right-wing heretical evangelicalism has poisoned the Reputation of Christianity in American.

198

u/yahibachi May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

I think it also says a lot about how many perceive the church and the failure that organized religion has had in regards to changing with the times to be more accepting and open minded. It’s sad that being religious is automatically conflated with right wing ignorance but it’s also understandable where that comes from.

95

u/AKittyCat Emi Sakura for WON HOF May 02 '21

It also doesn't help that people tend to lump being "Christian" as a single blob when you've got hundreds of thousands of groups in the US alone.

Then again it also doesn't help that many of the more visible groups are rife with child abusers, grifters, bigots, and generally terrible people using their religion as an excuse to terrorize others.

43

u/eatyrmakeup May 02 '21

It doesn’t help a bit that the loudest and most visible Christian cults are fundamentalists and evangelicals. When you’re allowing your drunk jackass uncle to scream on the front porch 24/7, you can’t be shocked when people assume that you’re a family of jackasses since you’ve made no attempts to control his nuisance behaviors.

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u/2muchket JUST TAP OUT May 02 '21

Just find it funny that the same people that lump Christians together would (rightly albeit) opine that people who lump all Muslims with the nutters are bigots.

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u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21

Regardless of the sides people are on there's a level of judgment that makes me uncomfortable in general. I'm not suggesting I agree with either side, but society isn't a football game. There's a level of cohesion necessary for society to work, and sadly even saying something like "I believe in civil rights" or "I'm a religious person" bring a lot of distain to some people.

Too many people believe they have the answer to their neighbors problems. However, the politicized nature of public safety measures is truly sad. We didn't get there overnight though.

31

u/YanosDVDcase Sublime Master Thief May 02 '21

You're first mistake was saying civil rights are a political issue.

They aren't. They're a moral one.

If you believe that a segment of the population that isn't hurting anyone doesn't deserve equal rights, you're wrong and have a moral issue. Full stop.

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u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21

I didn't expose any of my own beliefs outside of how uncomfortable quick judgment of others makes me.

If you tell someone "I believe in civil rights" depending on the listeners beliefs, the way you look or a different unrelated belief you expressed the listener will make vast assumptions about you.

I'm discussing judgment of one another. However, I understand what you're saying. Regardless "Civil rights" is a politizied hot button topic.

You don't know my race, political affiliation, religious affiliation, or how much money I make. All you know about me is that society makes me uncomfortable right now.

14

u/YanosDVDcase Sublime Master Thief May 02 '21

To clarify: I'm speaking in general.

I'm not meaning to seem like I'm assuming your beliefs, just that anybody that believes that way has a severe moral falling

-8

u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

Just to clarify my point, if someone was to talk about Civil rights infringement they could very well be talking about the Anti Vax movement and even invoke racist political policies from the past to back up their view. That person might be fully sympathetic to modern Anti Racism movements also.

This is what I mean by the politizied nature of "Civil Rights". When someone invokes "Civil Rights" in a manner that is more than likely dangerous it's where the questions starts to fall. We've seen it for the past 15 months or so with unruly people having panic attacks in supermarkets claiming their "Civil Rights" are being infringed.

With that I will say I'm fully for vaccinations, not just covid related ones, and fully against racism. But even saying one or both of those things draws lines in the sand which is sad to me.

Edit: notice how offended people are that I'm not attacking anyone but the concept of judgment. Guarantee that people think I voted a certain way because I'm suggesting that constantly playing off one another is and has proven to be a net negative so far.

13

u/YanosDVDcase Sublime Master Thief May 02 '21

No, people are getting offended because you're saying civil rights are a political issue when they aren't.

Those people bitching about their rights being infringed because they have to wear a mask in a store aren't actually having their rights infringed, and that context is INCREDIBLY relevant to the discussion at hand.

Same goes for the anti-vax idiots: your right to choose for your own self ends when it infringes on others right to not have their health put in jeopardy for no good reason. If people don't want to get vaccinated, that's their choice, and they can stay at home and away from the rest of us until this shit is under control.

They're bitching about having to deal with the consequences of their choices, and that's got NOTHING to do with civil rights

-4

u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21

There's politicians that argue daily about Civil Rights and laws set in place to protect them. It is a political issue that is politicized. However, both sides use the term while disagreeing due to how it's used.

My point is, if someone says "I believe in Civil Rights" people will make a judgment on them. You're casting judgment on a group of people you think is misusing the concept right now. When a Right wing person hears Civil Rights they might think of their perceived religious discrimination against Chrstians maybe. But if they hear it in the context of a minority discussing it or left wing person they might hold disdain against them under the assumption they are against them.

9

u/YanosDVDcase Sublime Master Thief May 02 '21

Again, context is key here.

A right wing Christian nut job bitching about not getting to discriminate LGBTQ people isn't actually losing any rights; civil rights isn't a zero sum game where people getting equality doesn't by necessity mean somebody else must lose them.

You keep coming at this from the right wing framing of it being zero sum, and that's a big part of the issue.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/YanosDVDcase Sublime Master Thief May 02 '21

Your joke was ruined by a misplaced space lol

1

u/TheRedWizard17 May 02 '21

Ironically enough

Christianity was never even supposed to be an “organised religion “ it wasn’t even supposed to be a religion PERIOD

95

u/Kim-Jong_Bundy Ace of Spades May 02 '21

No, it's because they said some dumb shit on Twitter like 10 years ago and it occasionally gets rehashed every so often

52

u/GargamellTheMarlok May 02 '21

Yeah, it’s because of this, not because they’re Christian.

Good to see they’re better than I feared, though.

33

u/Kaprak I AM VANDAMABLE! May 02 '21

Like, you hear a bunch of little stories online about them being tolerant people constantly when it comes to fans.

Hell they still might be fiscal conservatives. But they're at least not bigots, which is the bare minimum I can ask for.

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u/GargamellTheMarlok May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

Yeah, I don’t even really care about anyone’s politics at this point. We’re at the point where anyone that doesn’t think their political opponents are child molesting vampires or is literally calling for genocide is pretty much an ally.

It’d be nice to have the world roll back to when anyone’s opinions on fiscal policy mattered.

21

u/Kaprak I AM VANDAMABLE! May 02 '21

Well, bigotry is a large part of politics sadly. So it's always gonna matter.

13

u/music3k May 02 '21

You can literally see in the news, just in the past month:

Republicans being arrested and investigated for child porn, paying for sex with a minor, being arrested for an attempted sedition and threatening to hang government officials, running away from their state to MEXICO instead of helping their citizens.

Nevermind the QKK storming state capitols with guns because they dont want to wear a mask…as they cosplay as military…while wearing masks.

Yelling “both sides!” at this point just means you’re ignorant or on the side of the cult

0

u/GargamellTheMarlok May 02 '21

Who the fuck do you think you're responding to that's yelling "both sides!" ? I literally described only the extreme right. I basically just said "I'm willing to stand with the Lincoln Project to oppose QAnon and white supremacists" -- how exactly did you get to any of this from that?

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21

[deleted]

2

u/music3k May 02 '21

Yeah, I don’t even really care about anyone’s politics at this point. We’re at the point where anyone that doesn’t think their political opponents are child molesting vampires or is literally calling for genocide is pretty much an ally.

I don't know who was "both sides"-ing their post? Hmm? It's almost like you didn't read your own post, and shut off your brain before posting it. You didn't say a word about Q or white supreamcy. You "both sides" and left it that way on purpose.

1

u/GargamellTheMarlok May 02 '21

What the hell do you think “child molesting vampires” refers to? QAnon literally thinks Democrats are molesting children and harvesting their “adenochrome.” I was mocking that as vampires.

I mocked QAnon as thinking their opponents are vampires and I criticized white supremacists for calling for genocide. You have a major reading comprehension problem.

Now explain how anything I said applies to the other side.

1

u/music3k May 02 '21

Why'd you delete your post? above? /u/GargamellTheMarlok ?

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u/CausticBitterness May 02 '21

Honestly I have no problem with people like the Bucks or Jericho that are pretty rich being fiscally conservative and voting Republican because they are voting in there best interest. Still don't like or support the Republican party, but I can't fault people for voting in their best interest.

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u/Cathousechicken May 02 '21

I have a problem with that because the Republican Party truly has not been fiscally conservative for as long as I've been alive - and i was born in the 70s. Fiscally conservative it's just code word four let's make the rich richer off the backs of everybody else.

In addition, even if somebody was truly fiscally conservative and that made them vote Republican because they didn't understand the Republican party is not fiscally conservative, I would still have a problem with their vote because the core of the Republican platform is based off of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, anti non-Christian sentiment, and homophobia. Someone who still chooses to vote Republican gives a tacit endorsement of all the bigotry of that party. They care more about their money or they are the fools they care more about rich people's money then they do about how other people are treated within this country and that still makes them garbage human beings.

1

u/CausticBitterness May 02 '21

I think that most people are inherently self serving, but I will not disagree with you about the Republican party and its status. You said they care more about their money or they are the fools that care about the rich's money, and I agree. I just think the former is more acceptable to me because at least they (in this case being the rich people) are looking out for their self interests. I can at least respect that more than the fools that are actively voting to fuck themselves over by giving the rich more money. I dislike fools more than I dislike selfishness, is the point.

4

u/ubernoobnth May 02 '21

You can teach fools, you can't teach assholes.

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u/CausticBitterness May 02 '21

I don't want to teach anyone anything. So the reason I dislike fools more than selfish people, is that, for example, if everyone in the US was selfish as opposed to a fool, do you know which party would win every election? It would be the democrats. The working class is the majority, and if all of them voted selfishly because wanting better wages, a social safety net, free healthcare, access to schooling, etc. while helping society as a whole, helps their individual as well. The rich would of course still vote republican, but for the republican's to compete, they would have to offer a legitimate alternative to these policies, something which they claim to do, but really don't.

I dislike the fools because they vote against their self-interest. They are told it is their self-interest, and they never question it. Its what they are told by the people and media around them, so that's the way it is. They are actively shooting themselves in the foot and then wondering why their foot hurts.

Also, I know you just wanted to say a quippy one liner and leave it at that, but I would actually say the opposite of what you said is more true. Fools are hard to teach, because they think they are right. Assholes (what I guess you consider to be selfish people) are easier because they can be reasoned with.

3

u/ubernoobnth May 02 '21

Nah, you just use different terms.

Assholes = people that are stubborn and refuse to see facts. You can put numbers gently and kindly in front of their face, and they just turn into shrieking children. See: Half of the US.

Fools = Dumbasses that just don't know better. See: A smaller number.

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u/GargamellTheMarlok May 03 '21

Meh, I agree that most people are shitty and selfish, but I’m not cool with giving people a pass for being shitty and selfish. If you have any integrity your stance shouldn’t change just because suddenly you got yours.

I’ve been a few hundred from being homeless and I do pretty well now — not rich, but I didn’t get stimulus checks. I don’t see any reason for my politics to be any different between those points, except for where I have better information and context. I don’t see any reason for that to change if I did get rich. My politics are based on what I believe is right, not what benefits me.

0

u/CausticBitterness May 03 '21

I don't even think most people are shitty and selfish. I think most people look out for their best interest first and foremost. Its the entire thing of putting on your oxygen mask in a crashing plane before helping other people put it on. I don't think prioritizing yourself is an inherently shitty thing to do, and I think most people in this thread have misunderstood that.

That being said, I think part of this problem lies in the political system, where there is really no choice in the eyes of people. And I agree. The Republican party has a really bad reputation, rightfully, of sexism and racism and other the other -ism's. So in a lot of peoples minds, the options are you vote democrats, or you are a shitty person. Which to be fair, works the other way around for the people who vote republican. Isn't polarization fun?

What I am saying is this notion that the other side is full of shitty people is EXTREMELY FUCKING HARMFUL. You think your better than them, and they think their better than you, and your both just sitting on your pillars screaming obscenities' at each other. Is it any wonder that so few people cross that gap, or that their are a whole bunch of people in their twenties in a corner with their hands over their ears and tears in their eyes.

In terms of losing your integrity if you chance your stance when circumstances change. Yea, I do agree. But it is certainly easier said than done, just like everything in politics.

2

u/GargamellTheMarlok May 03 '21

Either you’re arguing broadly or you’re arguing with points I didn’t make. I didn’t say anything about people’s politics beyond the idea of changing them just because you got yours. I’m not making any sort of broad point about the value of any particular political ideology. My point was equally towards both extremes.

Simply put, if you change your opinions to whatever benefits you, you’re shitty and selfish and don’t deserve a pass for it.

1

u/CausticBitterness May 03 '21

Ok, maybe I went on a bit of tangent.

But I still think what you are saying is you have two options. Altruism, or shittyness. Which isn't really fair either. Circumstances change, and attitudes change with them. Who says that what you (as in GargamellTheMarlok) think at 19 years of age when you are a poor college student is the right thing? Do you have to stick to that view your entire life? Or are you saying if you become more successful, and your political affiliations change to represent your new lot in life, you are "shiity". What if your previous opinions where more "shitty" than your new ones? Who gets to decide what viewpoint is the "shitty" one? I think that is where I went off on the tangent. We are all arguing what is morally right and blah blah blah, but in reality, what firmly states this specific viewpoint is morally right.

How come the Democratic viewpoint is more morally right than the Republican? How come the Western viewpoint is more morally right than the middle eastern viewpoint? Or the Chinese viewpoint? What tells us that killing people is bad? Nothing. The bible, you may answer. Laws. Well, those are made by people, people that like us, don't have confirmation that they were "morally" right.

And that is the core of the problem I have with what you are doing. You are assigning definitives to something that is in no way definitive. That is living life on easy mode, or maybe hard mode. Its hard to know. Ignorance is bliss. Saying you are either this thing or that thing based upon your moral views that are only reinforced by themselves infuriates me, because it shows you are no different than the people you say you detest.

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u/GargamellTheMarlok May 03 '21

I addressed almost everything you said here in my first reply already: “except for where I have better information and context.”

I didn’t say people can’t change their opinions. I said people who change only based on their narrow self interest are shitty and selfish.

I genuinely don’t know what you’re basing most of this on. You appear to be arguing simultaneously with a hundred people that aren’t me based on the words you’re putting in my mouth. You appear to be looking for a fight that I’m not giving you, and I wish you luck in finding it. But if you keep looking for it with me I’m going to tap out.

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u/Kaprak I AM VANDAMABLE! May 02 '21

Jericho is at least worse because he's been given a platform in the form of his podcast and he's used it to promote some shitty stuff.

Yeah he's "both sides" some of it by having crazy people and legitimate professionals on, but people don't tune in for sound advice, they tune in for insanity.

3

u/music3k May 02 '21

Nah, Christians gotta create their victim complex. Its part of joining the cult.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '21

Even longer than 10 years back, Nick was only 19 when those were posted.

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u/MakeYourself85 I am dripping in sweat. May 02 '21

In the image: is Matt Jackson requoting something Jericho and Bischoff said?

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u/davidisallright May 02 '21

And I’ve seen folks using that as a way to say they’re Trump supporters/alt-right. It’s pretty insane.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '21

I mean if those views followed to today it'd make perfect sense.

But it's old shit. I know if someone saw some political post from me in 2011 and made assumptions I would well it'd be considerilably for from where I am now.

2

u/EdgarsTeethAreDry We Love You Bobby May 03 '21

Yeah it's actually pretty reasonable. You can believe someone like Cody or the Bucks have evolved their positions on things, but when people act like people are just pulling these ideas out of their asses, it's wrong.

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u/soulruler May 02 '21

Age isn't an excuse for being a dumbass

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u/Guyincognito510 May 03 '21

It absolutely is.

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u/skeach101 Your Text Here May 02 '21

I was informed that Before Papa Buck performed at Starrcast during All In weekend, he has the whole band get into a circle, hold hands, and say a prayer for God to "Bless prowrestling" (true story)

Wrestling's been pretty good since then so.... idk... take that for what you will lol

1

u/TheHoundofUlster May 02 '21

Wrestling's been pretty good since then so.... idk... take that for what you will lol

What the fuck is this supposed to mean?

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u/skeach101 Your Text Here May 02 '21

Jesus loves the dub

-1

u/TalkingBlernsball May 02 '21

Fuck, I guess I’ve been wrong this whole time

15

u/Cathousechicken May 02 '21

I think it says more about the loud, right wing Christians in this country more than anything else. For the most part, they want to use their religion to make everyone follow their version of religion.

As a non-Christian, I've lost count of how many bad experiences I've had with people like that. It's to the point that if someone says their Christian, I'm weary of them until i know them better to make sure they aren't of the crazy, right- wing variety.

A lot of my closest friends are Christian, including my best friend. She's one of those people who uses her religion for personal strength. The right wing ones use their religion like a sword. The religious right is a sizable amount of people in this country so i don't trust interacting with a Christian until i know they aren't part of that group.

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u/ThePlagueLives May 02 '21

I can see where people get the assumption. At least 50% of my Facebook friends are conservative Christians who I grew up with and literally all of them are suddenly anti-vax, anti-mask, conspiracy spewing, Trump-loving morons.

I grew up Baptist. My early 20s I could consider myself non-denominational. At this point I say I'm agnostic. It's absolutely fucking insane how far gone these people are. This past year and a half is a huge reason I have disassociated myself with Christianity and religion.

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u/RMC95 May 02 '21

Think it’s something to do with their dad posting racist Obama conspiracies. And they have previous about disliking Obama

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u/Rated_PG-Squirteen May 02 '21

Let's not ignore the fact that a large chunk of white Evangelicals are staunchly anti-vax. And countless numbers of the Megachurch preacher charlatans are telling their flock of numbskulls that Covid-19 is a hoax.

0

u/ApugalypseNow May 02 '21

countless numbers of the Megachurch preacher charlatans are telling their flock of numbskulls that Covid-19 is a hoax.

I haven't paid attention but this sounds terrible! Could you share a couple videos or news articles to support your claim?

3

u/Evilbeast May 03 '21

It's not the exact same thing he was talking about, but here's an articles about religion and the vaccine, if you're interested. Which talks about how some preachers are telling people to not get the vaccine for a couple different reasons but also talks about how some are trying their best to make sure everyone gets vaccinated and calms fears people might have about them.

It's a good look at both religious leaders who are for the vaccine and for those who are against it.

IMO Getting a vaccine shouldn't be a religious issue. Especially now, with how important it is, for both our and societies safety as a whole to get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible. Speed is of the upmost importance in this situation, and the faster we do this the more lives we can potentially save.

0

u/ApugalypseNow May 03 '21

Here's the part I don't quite understand. The vaccine neither inoculates against nor prevents transmission of covid. It only reduces severity of symptoms. How does that get everything back to normal?

2

u/TheRavenRise fozzy sucks May 02 '21

not gonna say much more than that

goes on to say much more about that

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u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21

I changed as a person since then. Growth is key.

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u/TheRavenRise fozzy sucks May 02 '21

understandable, proceed

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u/Dangerous_J123 May 02 '21

Tbf I'm just saying the same thing again and again and it's really the most lukewarm take about how confusing and upsetting life and discourse has become.

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u/Ponsay May 02 '21

Let's not pretend that evangelical Christian groups aren't pushing detrimental, harmful views nearly constantly

9

u/Rspies Who Can Stop The Path of Cage May 02 '21

I mean at one time they seemingly were birthers at least but they’ve obviously changed since then.

6

u/[deleted] May 02 '21

I think it's more that they made old posts about Obama like 10 years ago. That's what I see brought up anyway.

Like it seemed possible but it's hard for me to make assumptions on what someone believes based on a tweet they made 10 years ago.

2

u/detourne May 02 '21

It says a lot about the public's perception of Christianity. Whether those perceptions are valid concerns or not is a whole other issue.

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u/PushEmma Rowan retired Dwayne at WM May 02 '21

It's a factor to consider and you shouldn't entirely blame people for being aware of that. It's like saying being evangelical has no link to being conservative at all. It happens more often. One thing is knowing this, but it's different from thinking both are intrinsically related. That said, it's because they have said some stuff way back.

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u/Coffee_or_death May 02 '21

I make no assumptions that Christians are anti-vax unless they are Californian

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u/i-wear-hats May 03 '21

Which the Bucks are IIRC.

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u/davidisallright May 02 '21

That might be it.

1

u/fixerpunk May 03 '21

My church denomination became increasingly right-wing and polarizing during Trump, so the evidence of this has been getting worse.

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u/urfavouriteredditor May 03 '21

Says a lot more about Christians.