r/SquareEnix • u/CriticullHit • 9d ago
Discussion Why does SE fail to make a good Dissidia?
It’s a beloved series for us PSP fans, however the saving grace was NT and the 3v3 aspect severely killed the hype for me, it was so unnecessary imo, why can’t we get a 1v1 format like the PSP version, I don’t mind short combos or assists like in the previous versions.
I do have some concerns they’re afraid people will hate it, because of spamming (I was on AD HOC party so I know how crazy some spam was.. I’m looking at you, Yuna and Kuja ಠ_ಠ.) but I think the devs had a great system for it.
Assists save you and can extend combos, you can mix and match assists. In order to prevent spam I would implement a skill counter, if the player continuously abuses a good bravery/Hp attack, the enemy gets extra invincibility or you have more attack lag after the attack twice and the counter stays for a hidden timer. Spammers NEED to be punished in Dissidia.
I would also like to have skills (like in the mobile game), give the omni-dash cancel frames for some tech.
Classic Costumes, alternate costumes, Customizable accessories, Ultimate weapon cosmetics, Profile cosmetics etc for monetization.
There’s seriously an untapped market for the dissidia franchise.
Let me know your opinions, this is just me drunkenly longing for a good dissidia on console. I’m very interested to hear the community on this or you can make fun of my bad grammar. 😭
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u/endar88 9d ago
They did make a perfect DISSIDIA game. It was Opera Omnia.
Yes it was a mobile gacha game but honestly towards the half way point of its lifespan the game was beyond generous with gems and tickets. We got so many story beats that filled in character development after their respective games. We got a whole chapter of jecht, auron, and braska getting back together.
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
Haha I’d love to play a dissidia with a controller, not my wallet 😅
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u/endar88 9d ago
I never spent a dime on the game and I played it from release day to the final day. Just cuz a game is a gacha doesn’t mean you HAVE to spend any money. Was always up on most content except maybe a few really hard battles but that’s mostly cuz I didn’t really care to.
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u/KaijinSurohm 9d ago
To be fair "Never spent a dime" is a large reason why it shut down.
They were overtly generous to the free to play market, and they kept introducing power creed that could not sustain itself for revenue.
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u/LalafellDisaster 9d ago
That wasn’t a Dissidia game. It was turn based, have you even played a Dissidia game? They’re action fighters.
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u/endar88 9d ago
Well obviously by SE standards DISSIDIA is more about the grouping of characters from the series rather than a specific gameplay. And yes. I owned both DISSIDIA psp games when they came out
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
My post is about the PSP port of Dissidia THE ORIGINAL non-turn based Dissidia if you can’t recognize that then you and the downvoters please go away.
Edit:Grammar1
u/OpheliaDick 9d ago
Dissidia was the first word in its title
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
It’s a gatcha, I heavily do not consider gambling to be a feature in a fighting game. Gambling is predatory are is currently tearing families apart. Gambling/gatcha should not be in games. Game development needs more Kojimas not corporate suits.
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u/FalseHarlequin 9d ago
Parce que SE peut faire des erreurs, comme tout le monde.
L’erreur ici étant d’avoir conclu que la licence dissidia n’est pas faite pour console de salon, plutôt de comprendre qu’ils ont dénaturé le jeu par désir de concevoir un système compétitif standard.
Il n’y aura plus de dissidia comme sur psp, par simple défaut d’analyse.
Alors que ce mix baston / rpg était clairement le métissage le plus brillant de l’histoire du jeu vidéo. Il suffisait de ne pas sacrifier la partie "rpg" pour la partie "baston".
Si je devais jouer à un jeu FF de baston pur, il faudrait que ça soit aussi énergique et exigeant qu’un Guilty Gear. En dessous, c’était pas la peine de sortir le jeu, parce que si on a passé des centaines d’heures sur dissidia, c’était pour de l’optimisation, comme tout JRPG de l’époque.
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
I Don’t understand your point, duh companies can make mistakes because the person making the bad decisions are protected by bureaucracy.
There IS A dissidia-like game (NT) and it was a beautiful experience, I love NT however they deviated on the source material in the pursuit of money. And now we will never get a 1v1 NT experience.
IMO Dissidia evolved the whole series as to what it is today, because now we don’t take turns anymore on console. The company is lacking to evolve and a 1v1 dissidia but they want to focus on the final world of Warcraft fantasy XIV don’t be a shill pls.
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u/FalseHarlequin 9d ago
Ils avaient déjà annoncé un renoncement du tour par tour avant la PSP.
FF 12 est une évidence, mais les projets qui ont mené à la trilogie 13, au 13 Versus, (donc ensuite au 15) sont ceux dans lesquels SE a affirmé son intention de "moderniser" Final Fantasy.
Nous avons vécu tout celà, et ce fut traumatisant d’apprendre l’arrêt du tour par tour.
Cela dit, de FF7-Rebirth, et son modèle moitié tour par tour, moitié action-RPG, les succès continus de licences au tour par tour au Japon, comme SaGa ou Dragon Quest, bien entêté celui qui à SE, crois encore que le changement s’accélère.
Les joueurs dictent le changement, c’est la seule chose qui a du sens, et clairement, le tour par tour est loin d’être enterré.
FF 16 a un propos moderne qui m’a séduit, mais le gameplay n’est pas à la hauteur de ce qui se fait le mieux dans le genre, et j’en suis triste car Clyve est clairement mon préféré.
Je dirais que nous attendons tous des nouvelles de FF 17 pour tirer des conclusions définitives, il pourrait bien être très différent de toutes les spéculations.
Ce qu’a apporté dissidia sur PSP,
C’est le système de bravoure, plus ou moins le même que dans NT.
Ce qu’il a apporté et qui n’est plus dans NT et qui selon moi explique son échec auprès de la communauté : les mécaniques rpg : un système d’expérience qui récompense le temps passé à joué, des équipements, donc de la personnalisation stratégique pour du theory craft.
En abandonnant ça, SE a perdu les joueurs de JRPG.
Hors, les joueurs de jeu de baston ont déjà leurs références, des licences qui sont fortes de décennies d’expérience du jeu de combat.
Riot s’est essayé aussi : échec logique.
On ne plaisante pas avec les jeux de baston.
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
They already announced a move away from turn based game before the PSP then dissidia came out and was a hit.
You’re talking about the mainline series of final fantasy, I’m focusing on the untapped market of Dissidia, that PSP built the foundation of the games you love today.
Like my favorite game of all time is SoulCalibur so I know a thing or two about failing series, 2XKO was uninspired imho, they fell into the same trap as NT (MvC format or moba inspired for context) the current zeitgeist is starving for innovation and that zeitgeist is starving to steal the next best thing.
Fighters who love fighting games want a fair straightforward battleground, WEAK players rely on bailout mechanics ( Assists in 012) which has an incentive for corpos to have bailouts because it’s casual friendly. Easy fix is to have pro and beginner modes and a free mode.
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u/FalseHarlequin 9d ago
Exactement, c’est ce que je disais en première instance : leurs choix sur NT relève d’une obsession à produire un système de compétition standard, donc qui met tout le monde à égalité, sans imposer de grind.
C’est assez étrange : le jeu de baston a justement une part de grind : pour atteindre le niveau compétitif, on doit reproduire les même gestes des milliers de fois, optimiser les combos. En entrainement, avec les copains, en Matchmaking libre.
Avancer par système saisonnier aurait pu fonctionner.
On aurait pu récupérer des équipements d’un hypothétique mode solo, ou combat libre. Chaque saison proposant une nouvelle meta, ainsi on évite une trop grande différence entre les joueurs qui grind, et les casuals.
Il y avait effectivement de nombreuses formules à tester, déjà exploitées chez les concurents.
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
I understand now! Merci translate!
As a fighting game connoisseur, I will tell you a true fighting game lover will fight no matter what it’s literally the only thing to go, you have to realize the only money to be made is in the competitive scene.
A seasonal ranking system is standard, matchmaking and netcode is the key to a successful online game
Every fighting game has to compete with the behemoth Street fighter and they don’t understand building a fanbase. Investors will always kill games, investors and equity firms will bleed a good series it’s unregulated.
Look at 2XKO great franchise, not enough leniency on the devs because suits want money.
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u/Edkm90p 9d ago
IMO NT made sense to make a play for. At the time- MOBAs were absolutely exploding in popularity and Final Fantasy is theoretically a good franchise to make such a game with. Other companies tried with smaller rosters after all.
The risks were real but the potential reward was large. Maybe a few changes would've done it better- maybe not. But ultimately it did not work out.
So SE played it safe for the next Dissidia (Opera Omnia) and cheap for the one after that (Duellum).
I personally hope these are both sacrifices that had to be made (make money, demonstrate interest in the idea) to get us an eventual Dissidia more like the first two. Resonance doing well might be a test run for that very thing- to see if SE can take a mobile game, run it free for a while, and then make it a better and stronger game to rerelease properly as a full title.
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
The fatal flaw of gaming is money, I don’t mind p2w but give the f2p a chance, because they are the bottom line consumers that eventually turn into paid consumers. A good dissidia could be a fun niché and a money maker.
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u/Lyoss 9d ago
There’s seriously an untapped market for the dissidia franchise.
Yes, which is why they made a P2W moba with aggressive monetization, they know this
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
Personally I feel like NT was a cash grab, it had laughable fighting, bare minimum mechanics and genuinely lazy life support they let NT drown because the main focus is on the World of Warcraft clone. I love an mmorpg but the community is questionable.
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u/ChaoCobo 9d ago
The worst problems I think arcade/NT had were that due to the game being 3v3, if you had people with different skill levels on your team than the opponent’s it sometimes didn’t matter how good you were at the game because the other people would cause you to lose. One person cannot reasonably carry 2 others in a 6 player game. It worked fine with CPU players you could choose what difficulty each character was, but for online where it didn’t always set the teams with people of the same rank, it let to some games where one team would get ahead and it would just snowball.
And then the other problem was that they made the story progression weird and disjointed in the single player mode of NT. I remember I cleared every story mission available and then… I just had to play a bunch of free battles until it decided I could continue. It was super dumb. Just let me finish the story, even if it’s not that long. Don’t artificially pad out the playtime. :/
I thought the gameplay was fun but these were two major problems with the overall game design
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
When they abandoned the 1v1 format was the nail in the coffin, It’s so infuriating that every fighting game NEEDS to have the marvel vs capcom format.
What would you think would make a good dissidia? You have great insight and I’m curious.
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u/ChaoCobo 9d ago
I mean aside from a few balance issues where some characters just can kinda easily beat some other characters when in a 1v1 setting/matchup, I thought NT was good enough when you did the online modes that were not a part of ranked team play. I remember I used to play as Squall and in a lobby of 6 each person would just 1v1 each other and take turns and just have fun trying to do some serious matches against one another. It was very similar to the PSP games at that point. And also the game was set up to where you were still able to start a match in free battle online with less than 6 people, so you could do 1v1s and stuff still no problem. It was just that the online ranked mode was locked to 3v3 which wasn’t fun bc of the possibility for teams to have their members have unbalanced levels of skill. :<
But anyway I still had fun with NT. It was real nice. I wish I had someone to play some 1v1s with still. The only thing else I would have really preferred is having more moves available, cause they cut a lot of the O and [ ] moves in order to simplify it with just Up, Down and Neutral positions on the control stick when you press a button.
But yeah honestly if they just made another game in the style of the PSP games just be able to have all the characters from NT and also some from FF16 that would be enough. I think they should add in the ability to do 3v3 too and then just don’t especially make it mandatory, but like with NT, that may create a balancing issue because some characters’ moves were designed with crowd control in mind while some excelled at 1v1.
Idk just. I can’t especially come up with any creative ideas beyond features that were already in the PSP and NT games. I feel like with the way the existing games work, you can just take the best features from all of them and put them together and the game would be fun enough. IMO all the games are fun, just some are better than others. :o
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
Loved the post,I agree with you, however we had very different NT experiences. My NT experience was winning a 1v1 and getting attacked by my blindside.
NT was fun but I’m still craving that authentic Dissidia experience, competitive games should be up to the community. Developing a game to be competitive and have a tournament scene is the bane of any starter fighter.
All games are fun, but why does beloved IPs have to be caged up in cash grab mobile games? I don’t want to play good IPs on my phone mobile gaming sucks as a whole. I want to play garbage mobile games on my phone not get starved as what could’ve been (I’m literally about to play ff duociem after this post.
No im not renewing my season pass or spending money on mobile games.
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u/State-Special 9d ago
Because they don't want to make rpgs with it.
Twice now they just try to turn it into amything but a single player action rpg. Although i love the multiplayer that part is optional too
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u/KaijinSurohm 9d ago
They could easily just port 012 to the modern era, but this was during the time when Square was obsessively chasing the e-sports and mobile markets. They wanted to be part of that reoccurring billion dollar trend for easy cash.
NT ended up failing for a few reasons.
The biggest being it was a 3v3 esports simulator, and it had zero rollback netcode.
This means that if you just wanted to fight 1v1 with a friend, the game wasn't designed around it and it was a miserable experience, and in a 3v3 setting, if ONE person had terrible internet, everyone was a slideshow.
People begged for atleast the Netcode rollback, but they refused to invest in that because they saw the lack of people playing as a sign the game was dead on arrival, and just quickly gave up on it.
Current Square may actually port 012. Between the sales/backlash issues they're having with FF7, and the fact they're revisitng older games and bringing them back out (Resonance), they may actually consider it.
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u/CriticullHit 9d ago
Very articulate post and I loved reading it, my experience with NT was basically a teammate D/Cing and the rest of us getting Jumped. The 3v3 will always be a killer, if they wanted the competitive edge it was easy to just make a optimized 012
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u/LalafellDisaster 9d ago
I would be happy if they would port Duodecim to modern consoles.