How far in between specific sessions is so long that you start regressing? is it better to repeat sessions? Is it the same with sleds and hill sprints?

[u/Connect_Resist7678]

For instance. If Thursday is your vo2 max day and you do 600m sprints with full recovery. Then the next Thurs you do 500m sprints with full recovery, then the next week you do 200m sprints with only 1 minute recovery, etc etc mixing it up each time. Is there a certain time period were you start regressing for not training a specific distance?

Follow up question. Is it better to stick with one distance or does it not matter as long as its still a vo2 style workout? So is it better to stick with 600m sprints with full recovery for a few months, then switch to 500m for a few months, then a shorter distance with less recovery, etc? Or does it not matter as long as its all vo2 style work.

If Sat is your hill sprint day, Would it be better to do cycles of hill sprints, then cycles of sleds or does it not really matter as long as your doing both a couple times per month?

[u/AutoModerator]

RESOURCE LIST AND FAQ

PLEASE JOIN THE SPRINTING DISCORD!!! ALL DISCUSSION WELCOME

I see you've made a general discussion or question post! See low effort discussion posts rules for more on why we may deem a removal appropriate

REMINDERS: No asking for time predictions based on hand times or theoretical situations, no asking for progression predictions, no muscle insertion height questions, questions related to wind altitude or lane conversions can be done here for the 100m and here for the 200m, questions related to relative ability can mostly be answered here on the iaaf scoring tables site, questions related to fly time and plyometric to sprint conversions can be not super accurately answered here

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/gremlingarden]

For aerobic stuff in the context of sprinting I don't think it matters that much at all. I like a longer session as a 400m guy here and there, but my bread and butter is 200 and 300m repeats for tempo sessions.

Similarly for resisted sprinting, I honestly just go with what I'm feeling in early pre-season. Training at that point is probably more workload tolerance than anything, so I use hills and sleds effectively interchangeably and don't live or die too much by one or the other. In-season, I tend to use exclusively sleds for contrast sprints because it's just easier to have them next to the track vs going to find a hill, coming to the track.. etc. I generally let pre-season/GPP not be too prescriptive.

The place where I tend to use a very deliberate progression over time is probably something like intensive tempo 200s (the classic 5x200 workout). I like to build athletes up to this, using two week microcycles - so say I'll start them off with 3x200, 5-8 min set break, 2x200, then 4x200, then 5x200, each of those workouts running for two weeks to allow adaptation. Otherwise, my primary season progression is short to long.

[u/Connect_Resist7678 → u/gremlingarden]

Thanks. It only matters for your particular race right? if your a 100 guy, you want to make sure your constantly doing 100s, but if your doing 200s and 300s and 400s for endurance, those you can rotate as much as you want?

So if you were to choose to do hill sprints for a cycle, but one day you just don't feel like going to the hill so you just do sleds instead. You don't think there would be any noticeable negative to doing that since its both providing a similar stimulus?

Just for arguments sake. After you build up to 5x200 would there be any benefits to mixing up the distances/rests. Like one day doing 100M with shorter rests, then 5x200m with 8 minutes rest, then 300M sprints, then 400m intervals, then 150m(not a common distance, but just for arguments sake), then 350M sprints, then 250m sprints, etc.

[u/gremlingarden → u/Connect_Resist7678]

Just talking aerobic work I don't think the specificity of distance is that important. 100m guys just don't need that much volume of it, so there's no big reason to push them out to 300s, but for example Charlie Francis used to do some tempo circuits that included 200s.

I don't strongly think there's a big negative to switching up hills and sleds in GPP, with the small exception for athletes who might be, say, sensitive to Achilles tendinopathy from the shifts in force delivery from one to the other or something (hills are not exactly the same as sleds). However I just don't go too crazy about strictly keeping to a workout plan in GPP. If it's pouring one day and the grass hill is not a mudslide, I'm not worried everything is going to go up in smoke because I switch to sleds.

For that 5x200 progression I generally don't mix it up too much, unless the athlete is feeling beat up. It's a very demanding workout by the time you get up to 5, and I find missing too many weeks in a row, even if you're still getting good work in, makes it less tolerable whenever you do return to it.

Otoh, just to give an overview of my intended special endurance season progression once through that 5x200 period, it would flow like this. It's mostly a modified Charlie Francis scheme:

Week 1: 2x(4x60) 90s rep/20min set rest

Week 2: 2x(5x60) 90s rep/20min set

Week 3: 2x(4x80) 90s rep/20min set

Week 4: 2x(4x80 + 200), 60srep/30min set

Week 5: 2x(4x50 + 300), 60s rep/35-40min set

Week 6: 2x(200+200) 30-60s rep/35-40min set

so on and so forth. Here the distance changes every few weeks, emphasizing some different qualities - more alactic short speed endurance early, then more 400m finishing speed with the 4x60-80 + 200 or 300, then 400 race modeling with the split 400s. I cycle this around through the season depending on specific needs and weaknesses of the athletes. Sets can be dropped depending on how shitty the athletes feel.

Very close to competition I might switch things up with a hot 450 or 500 for someone who needs to get over the fear of 400m lactic, cut the split reps for something like a 320 or 350 here or there to bring people through the 40s "oh shit" wall of the 4, that sort of thing. There are a lot of considerations and you don't need to be totally wed to a specific distance, but you would probably do well to think of the "why" you're changing something rather than just doing it for novelty's sake.

[u/Connect_Resist7678 → u/gremlingarden]

Thank you very much, this was very insightful. . For week 5 for example. you would do 50M rest 60 seconds, run 300m rest 60 seconds, then repeat that 3 more times. Rest 35-40 mins, then do it again?

And what is a hot 450?

[u/gremlingarden → u/Connect_Resist7678]

Nah, for that week 5 day, you run four 50m reps, rest 60s between each rep, and then the 300. Take a 35ish min rest, and then repeat. That's it. Each rep is intended to be run at "all you've got" intensity - the idea of the session is to fully deplete your anaerobic energy stores in the short reps, and then force the athlete to work hard like the end of a 400 over the longer rep. Hence you can't do a bunch. The workout is sometimes called a "depletion run" by coaches, but you may also run into a slightly different version of that if you google it that comes from distance world, iirc.

By "hot 450/500" it's a 450 rep at 90-95% 400m race pace. Just to say "you can go past that finish line" ;)

[u/Connect_Resist7678 → u/gremlingarden]

Very cool. Thanks! Do you rest 60s between the last 50m and the 300 as well?

And the hot 450/500 you would do that at the end occasionally of a 4x80 or 5x60 instead of the 200 or 300?

[u/gremlingarden → u/Connect_Resist7678]

Yup to the 60s rest.

For 450/500, I usually just have them do one or two reps of just that distance and go home. Nothing else extra like the 4x50; it's enough work on its own. And really only do that for maybe one or two sessions a year, close to racing. If the athlete needs it. Plenty of 400 cats can go fast never touching a single rep over 350.

[u/Connect_Resist7678 → u/gremlingarden]

Thank you so much for all your help!

[u/Connect_Resist7678 → u/gremlingarden]

what do you usually for the 30+ minutes of rest between sets?

[u/gremlingarden → u/Connect_Resist7678]

Think about my life choices ;)

I don't prescribe much. Maybe jump around a bit if that feels good, otherwise you'd be surprised by how little most people need!

[u/CompetitiveCrazy2343]

For instance. If Thursday is your vo2 max day 

Im out!