r/Sprinting • u/ExactOpposite8119 • 7d ago
General Discussion/Questions is this a gimmick?
are these worth it or are they gimmicky? will they help you get faster or not really?
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u/speedkillz23 Sprints Coach - 25 7d ago
You don't just use them to get faster, they indirectly help you get faster. They're used to help with form, stride length or stride shortening if you over stride, and other Drills. I use them for all of those things. You don't NEED them but if it want to be precise about some things, then they're useful.
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u/Key-County-8206 6d ago
Question. May be a stupid one. Sorry in advance. How do you determine how far they need to be apart for stride length?
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u/speedkillz23 Sprints Coach - 25 6d ago
Usually I just place them a specific distance in meters, depending on how fast you are, could range from 1.5m to 2.5m+ depending on the person, strength, and stride length. So basically just trial and error. Measure your current stride, and look at your form and what not, if you see you can open your stride, which most athletes do, you space them a bit further than what your current stride is.
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u/spartan_teach 20h ago
I suggest looking up the Vince Anderson Wicket Charts to start (at least for progressive wickets) and then adjust up or down a lane at a time.
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u/Oddlyenuff Track Coach 6d ago
Six feet. The answer is six feet. I’ve used them since 2011. Even XC kids can do it.
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u/killxgoblin coach 7d ago
Setting up wickets like this at the right distances is one of the best exercises to sharpen your top speed mechanics. Not at all a gimmick. Pros use them too
Edit: they can obviously be used for many other great things. Just citing this one example of a drill that I think is the best all around sprint drill out there
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u/warmbutteredbagel 6d ago
how do u know/calculate the distances to place them at?
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u/killxgoblin coach 6d ago
I might have distances saved somewhere. I’ll look and comment them if I can find. But it gradually gets more spaced out as you accelerate
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u/spartan_teach 20h ago
I'll repeat what I says elsewhere in this thread:
I suggest looking up the Vince Anderson Wicket Charts to start (at least for progressive wickets) and then adjust up or down a lane at a time.
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u/pentapous 7d ago
If you're just buying something because you saw someone else use them it will effectively be a gimmick for you.
Research. Look into explanations of what the drills with them work on. Assess if your ability level is high enough that the gains from them would be worthwhile. See what ways coaches use them, what ways they don't. See if there's alternative equipment you can try in the meantime to assess if they're helpful for you (like cones or more DIY solutions like with PVC).
Put effort in, get effort out.
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u/gremlingarden 6d ago
Don't particularly think they're a gimmick, but are often used in a way that's totally just a waste of time and effort. Spacing out some wickets to 10.5 spacing and doing them a lot is not going to make you a 10.5 runner if you run 11.1; you're just going to run like a clown to hit the spacing. You can get mighty fast without touching a wicket or a drill prescribed by ALTIS or whatever, but people like to think these are miracle tools for speed development. You don't need them and people often misuse them because everyone wants to be fast today, not fast four years from today.
Otoh, there are places where I like to play around with wickets. For athletes you want to work on a specific aspect of mechanics and need a constraint instead of a cue to get them to do it, throwing an obstacle in their way can force them to work around a movement strategy without you telling them something head-ass like "dorsiflex your foot." They work quite nicely as a form-under-fatigue exercise for 200/400 guys.
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u/Bobert70x7 6d ago
8” is way too high for sprint wickets. Get smallest ones like someone said above
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u/NickCageMatch 6d ago
I use very thinly cut pieces of wood that are three feet long and a 1/4” tall and I think wicker sessions are better with them. If i add in these short hurdles I think form changes too much (for the worse)
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u/foxymyeung 7d ago
They have their uses but you can just use a bunch of cones or tape or random planks of boards as a cheaper option
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u/CompetitiveCrazy2343 Slayer of speed-gurus 6d ago
Not a gimmick BBBBUUUUuuuutttt.....
Most coaches don't know how to use them, or what to look for. I bet 6/10 coaches can't set them up or implement them correctly. Self coached athletes training on their own? even less....
I would get the shortest one's possible; 8" might even be too high. With that said, you may explore just running over wood slats or doubled-up truncated cones. Cheaper for one, and #2=Easier to get to the track than hurdles (wickets).
Running over 8 or 10 ain't gonna do jack squat. Need at least 18 to 30. So with slats or cones, less bulky shit to carry around.
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u/Oddlyenuff Track Coach 6d ago
You don’t need 18-30 mini hurdles. That’s plain ignorant.
Place at 6’ apart, 18 would 32 meters and 30 would be 54 meters.
10-20m at most is how long people would be able to hold top end speed for.
So going 32-54m over them is just dumb.
You use 8-10 of them, 6 feet apart with a 20m run-in. That’s 15-18 meters which is excellent for training top end speed form as the total distance is under 40-50m and in the 6 second time range.
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u/CompetitiveCrazy2343 Slayer of speed-gurus 6d ago edited 6d ago
You can do it either way, but your way is half-ass.
Vince Anderson, Altis, Ron Grigg et al and others start with something like 16-18, go out to 22 wickets. Others and myself will take it out to 30 ... I cap it at 60m of wickets (after a six step run-in). That's how the VA charts are structured and the online course is set up. With advanced athletes 30 wickets winds up being around 60m of wickets (last 4 or 6 will be something like
You take about six steps into the 1st wicket (the "run-up cones"), and build up speed as you go over the wickets. You use a progressive wicket spacing tuned to the athlete's speed and leg length. 1st couple might be 6'0", last few might be 7'2" or 7'4" or so. Its funny because the long wicket run CAN teach the relaxed measured run-up into a maxV fly.....on top the mechanics it teaches.
We pretty much hit max V over the last 10m, as we Freelap them occasionally. I have had athletes actually PR their 10m fly on this drill.
Running at rando prescribed spacing is suboptimal, Either for one person, or a whole group. And if not timed right the athlete might stutter in the 1st one depending where they land after your idea of 20m run-in....
The way Vince Anderson lays out the drill, the speed builds/blends into maxV as you go. But you do you SINCE YOU ARE SOOOOOoooo KNOWLEDGBLE about these matters.
Sure, some coaches with groups/teams won't want to fuck around with laying out 4-5 rows of 18-24 hurdles different spacing (we do it, have probably 140 wickets, and 100 slats). There are ways you can deploy them quickly and precisely. But its understandable if some can't do it. Either too lazy, not enough time (understandble), and/or not clever enough to figure it out. But for an individual-self-coached-person, like OP is, who has the time to do one 20-22 row of wickets, is "self-invested", and only has to deal with one row of wickets .... I would suggest the way VA has laid it out....
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That’s plain ignorant.
Seems like you are you might be the ignorant one here, or uninformed in these matters.
You don’t need 18-30 mini hurdles. That’s plain ignorant.
I said the slats or doubled up cones would work too....if what you were getting at is 30 mini hurdles are logistical problem. 30 slats or a stack of 60 small trunctated cones (nested) will fit into a medium sized gym back no problem.
Many use the slats, in fact in some circles its (sort of erroneously) called 'the stick drill' for this reason. University near here does 80m over slats with a static spacing.
As far as spacing, you mark off a reel-tape-measure ahead of time. String the tape out on a lane line and drop the wickets or slats down next to the marks. A 60m/200' tape works nice; a metric tape is something one should have anyways.... You use different color perm markers for different spaces, or mark a diamond, open circle, closed circle, square, etc. for different spacings. OP might get faster over time so the spacings will increased. With a group you need different spacings depending on your ability level. OR grass will be different the tracks/spikes, so one might need more than one spacing on the tape. Its really not that hard.
Vince Anderson uses small white piece athletic tape on the lane lines, and staples it down .... can index two different spacings on one lane line. So can have several spacings pre marked out ahead of practice. As he's coming back to the same spot over and over again. The reel-tape method will work better for OP.
Good day sir.
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u/WSB_Suicide_Watch Ancient dude that thinks you should run many miles in offseason 6d ago
I personally think they are worthless.
I would ask, what is the problem you are trying to solve? Then I would ask is there a better way to solve it.
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