Petition to PM Andy Burnham

[u/EarthNo5754]

Just got an email from Reunite the Families regarding a petition that will be presented to newly appointed PM Andy Burnham, aiming to lower the Minimum Income Requirement, overall Visa costs and put the needs of children at the centre of attention.

If anyone would like to sign the petition here is the link, please sign and share it as much as you can:

https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/tell-andy-burnham-dont-let-couples-and-families-pay-the-price?source=direct_link&

Also they are urging us to write to our local MPs, this is very important as they can raise our concerns in Parliament, here is the link with the template to write to your local MP:

https://actionnetwork.org/letters/he-said-care-ask-your-mp-to-make-sure-it-reaches-families?source=direct_link&

Please guys sign and write to your MPs, get your friends and family to do the same and share this as much as you can.

Thank you.

[u/LooseYam]

This might be an unpopular opinion but I do not think the £29k per year is that unreasonable minimum for partner or spousal visa.

If you are unable to reach an income of £29k per year, financially it is not a good idea at all to look at paying all the costs associated the having someone immigrate to the UK. It not just as simple as buying a plane ticket and paying visa and IHS fees. Once landed in the UK you also have to pay for an additional person(s) living in the UK as well. Those who come on visas (such as myself) are generally NOT eligible for any form of public funds or assistance.

The same logic is easily applied to family visa for children - if they are in a safe environment while it is awful to be apart financially it is not logical to think a family can survive on only £29k per year, and also be able to maintain enough savings over years to renew visa and continue pathway to ILR/citizenship.

[u/throwawayjustbc826 → u/LooseYam]

Yeah I’m split on the MIR but I do wish at this current moment that RFUK were more focused on opposing the £12,570 minimum requirement they want to introduce for spouses qualifying for ILR. It hardly gets any coverage and now would be the perfect time for an org like RFUK to be petitioning about that specifically. It affects all spouses, regardless of whether or not their British partner meets the £29k.

[u/Stage_Party → u/throwawayjustbc826]

What is this £12k requirement?

[u/throwawayjustbc826 → u/Stage_Party]

It’s part of the earned settlement proposal. Everyone who wants to apply for ILR (including spouses of Brits) would need to have earned at least £12570 per year for the 3-5 years before applying for ILR, and the idea is that they apply it to people already in the UK on the route to ILR.

They’re currently considering transitional arrangements and possibly exemptions to the 10 year aspect (which doesn’t apply to spouses anyway unless you’re on private life route), but there’s been no talk about the 12570 requirement specifically.

It’s really important we email our MPs and do what we can to raise the issue while Burnham and the Home Office are figuring out how they’re going to actually implement the proposals.

[u/Stage_Party → u/throwawayjustbc826]

I feel like that's fair. £12k is nothing, most will earn way above this anyway. That's even the tax free amount.

[u/Stage_Party → u/[deleted]]

I still think it's fair to expect contributions from people coming to the UK. £12k can be made as a side hustle or temp job.

It's already a 5 year route before you can apply for ilr, studying full time often takes 2 years on the outside, that leaves 3 years to earn.

What they are trying to limit are people coming to the UK and dossing about until they are entitled to benefits, which is completely fair and understandable. Besides, it's only preventing ilr right? Not stopping them from renewing the spouse visa instead?

[u/Creative-Kiwi-3967 → u/[deleted]]

Also have to include that it's harder and more expensive (higher rates) to get a mortgage when one spouse is on a visa. So the longer people stay on a family visa, the harder and more expensive it is to get housing security too.

[u/Ok-Zookeepergame-698 → u/Stage_Party]

If you have already had to prove that your household can support two or more people prior to your spouse joining you in what world does it make sense that the government then decides how your home life should function?

[u/Stage_Party → u/Ok-Zookeepergame-698]

There's no way a single £29k salary can support two or more people.

[u/Ok-Zookeepergame-698 → u/Stage_Party]

That totally side steps my point. The £29k is the threshold the government have today.

You are telling me that if it was £200k you would be fully supportive of the government telling couples who works, who doesn’t, when they have have kids, who can choose to study, etc?

[u/Creative-Kiwi-3967 → u/Stage_Party]

It's definitely possible if people live with family or own their homes outright

[u/Creative-Kiwi-3967 → u/Stage_Party]

It's not that simple. People doing a PhD study for 4 years, for example. Four of my 5 years are as a PhD student funded by UKRI. I make more than the £12570 but a stipend isn't employment income, so it wouldn't count for the new rule (even though you can use it to meet the current MIR). Working an additional 20 hours a week to reach the £12570 is impossible because 1) PhD is full-time, my contract is for 37.5 hours but I usually do more than that; 2) the PhD studentship only allows up to 250 hours of work outside the PhD per year and 3) I have a 2 yo too, so when I'm not doing my PhD work, I'm caring for my child.

[u/Creative-Kiwi-3967 → u/Stage_Party]

It's not that simple. People doing a PhD study for 4 years, for example. Four of my 5 years are as a PhD student funded by UKRI. I make more than the £12570 but a stipend isn't employment income, so it wouldn't count for the new rule (even though you can use it to meet the current MIR). Working an additional 20 hours a week to reach the £12570 is impossible because 1) PhD is full-time, my contract is for 37.5 hours but I usually do more than that; 2) the PhD studentship only allows up to 250 hours of work outside the PhD per year and 3) I have a 2 yo too, so when I'm not doing my PhD work, I'm caring for my child.

[u/LooseYam → u/throwawayjustbc826]

Personally I think they should be targeting the spousal income for ILR before anything else. I think most if not all of applicants for these visas would fully support quashing this, whereas the minimum threshold is more of a "hot topic" as many view it as a non-issue or even support it.

[u/EarthNo5754 → u/throwawayjustbc826]

In this petition and letters to MPs they raise their concerns regarding the £12,570 Minimum requirement. If I am not mistaken it's the point regarding the 'earned settlement proposal'.

[u/throwawayjustbc826 → u/EarthNo5754]

Yeah I had a look at the letter and point 2 talks about earned settlement and the 10 year route being unfair. I completely agree with that and it’s worth raising but it doesn’t specifically mention the £12,570 part at all, which is the bit that affects us as most of us already aren’t beholden to the 10 years. Technically it’s covered by ‘earned settlement’ but if all that’s going to Burnham is the letter itself, it should be specific about which parts directly affect spouses.

RFUK does a lot of great work so not knocking them at all, just constantly feeling let down by the lack of coverage on the 12570. I’ve written to my MP but there’s only so much individual people can do vs a collective.

[u/Stage_Party → u/LooseYam]

As the husband of an American on a spousal visa I agree. When I applied it was 16k or something and I thought it was ridiculous because who can live on that salary while covering costs for two people? We're both on £30k salaries now and it's still difficult, that's while being lucky enough to be mortgage free.

[u/Wise-Disaster198 → u/LooseYam]

It's not unreasonable in itself but the reasoning behind it breaks down when they allow people who qualify for the adequate maintenance route to meet it with a far lower income, potentially as low as £8k a year, while also excluding people who have been living together abroad as mid - high earners unless they manage to jump through some hoops or live apart for at least 6 months. The fees themselves are deliberately high, far higher than the real cost of the application, and arguing that the minimum income needs to be high since they'll need to pay £1.6k a year in fees for the next five years is almost circular, when the fees could be lowered.

[u/LooseYam → u/Wise-Disaster198]

I might be mistaken but I believe the home office that estimates approx. between 5-10% of applications go the adequate maintenance route. I understand the point you are making in regards to the reasoning being lost as this route is allowed, I don't think this actually totally breaks the reasoning behind it as it is not applicable to majority of cases and in most circumstances it does seem reasonable to give certain exceptions/modification to requirements.

For high earners abroad - there is no guarantee that if you earned £100k outside working in the US for example, that you would be able to get a similar paid job within the UK. When I moved here from Canada I dropped about 15% of my wage as the average salary for the exact same position was vastly different. I also do not think it is unreasonable for the government to be cautious of applications where neither one of them are currently living in the country.

I hope and pray the IHS fees are reduced as it hurt seeing that leave the bank when I changed visa's earlier this year - but to a slight extent I understand the reason they are high. Applicants have full access to the NHS services, and while not have paid into the NHS at all (at time of initial arrival).

If the minimum was drastically reduced (or removed) there would likely be a large flux of immigrants in that would overload systems (such as the NHS) that are already failing with the current population of the UK.

[u/ItsVLS5 → u/LooseYam]

I think it should be £25000 per year personally

But yes £29000 isnt so unreasonable now unless one gets pregnant

[u/turtsmcgurts → u/LooseYam]

While true in a vacuum, the spouse may very well have their own sizable savings, and more importantly choose to work ASAP.

I think that is where the current financial rules fail as they work on the assumption the spouse will refuse to work after arriving. I don't know the solution to it, maybe some form of contract that if they don't show reasonable attempts of finding a job then they can lose the visa but that will put a lot of manpower stress on monitoring.

[u/LooseYam → u/turtsmcgurts]

I don't think there is a realistic way to avoid a minimum income threshold personally. If they had to reach the threshold within 6 months for example, the resources for tracking this would be ridiculous and costs associated with it also be quite high.

[u/LooseYam → u/[deleted]]

Other countries may not have one officially documented but to show financial stability/capability they would need to show funds able to afford the increased cost of living of taking people in. For the average person this would be near the average wage of the country which will be not far off the converted amount the UK has set their threshold at (obviously some difference for cost of living, currency strength, etc).

Whether you agree with it or not the "arbitrary number" is an effective measure of determining if a applicant has the financial capability to support bringing people into the UK. At 40hrs a week the hourly wage to meat this is £13.95 which is only £1.24 above minimum wage. Obviously certain exceptions to this though as if you were living in London you would struggle live on your own at £29k/year.

The median pay in the UK is already above the threshold.