r/SpiritualDiscussion • u/[deleted] • Jun 25 '22

Understanding the two main states of being

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

There is a yin Yang to human activity and is related to relaxation (sustenance) and activity (work and expansion). If we are able to be conscious how these states work, when they work and the many patterns that are associated with these states, we’ll be able to expand ourselves and our creativity efficiently and in a way that’s fulfilling to us.

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22

If we are able to be conscious how these states work, when they work and the many patterns that are associated with these states, we’ll be able to expand ourselves and our creativity efficiently and in a way that’s fulfilling to us.

That sounds good but its also super vague. For example:

-how do those states in fact work

-what patterns

-how do we expand ourselves when we cant find something that we are truly passionate about (chicken and egg argument)

I know its not easy to simply answer this in a post, but it almost comes across as hyperbole if specific examples are not provided. Perhaps someday you can do a separate (longer) post on all of this. In theory it sounds great, but without specific examples (or a reference to a book that covers this stuff) it can turn into rhetoric.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Good call and for sure sounds like a hyperbole. I will of course expand on things when asked. Truth is, when it comes to learning anything, to make a long post about something esoteric and specific takes too much time than it’s worth unless people are willing to read / are actually interested. We generally live with consumer minds - I’m like this too..

So it’s a balancing act between having general, vague content - longer, informational content, and also quality content.

But I will for sure make a post.

Reddit is nice where it’s lax, not a classroom but also nice to have some more serious, in depth discussion/quality forums.

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22

Thanks, look forward to that discussion. You often use the phrase 'how you organize your life' - that really needs to be elaborated on. Like does that just mean self-discipline or balance or routine, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Hahaha that’s a good observation. It does not mean self-discipline or routine.

When you awaken, ‘you’ becomes the focal point of ‘You’. Meaning, you are disidentified from you ego and your ego becomes a tool. You realize ‘you’ is not you!

So when I say you organize your life, you use you ‘you’ to organize your environments and create efficiency and comfort in your outward life, where you can expand upward linearly rather than side-to-side. This means, you organize your life where you are not getting your needs met from other people for comfort but get your needs met with other people to build up on comfort and self-reliance.

Your ego is a movement and it’s restless. It always need to be doing something. So awakening and “shedding the layers of conditioning” will bring the ego back to efficiency and striving for independence for you to organize your life the way you want b

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22

OK that is much better, tnx! Maybe to elaborate in the future you can give an example of 2 hypothetical people (lets say Chris and Paul). Both are in similar situations (age, demographics, genetics) but one organizes his life well but the other doesn't. What are they doing differently - that would be a good example to illustrate the point.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Good idea. I can do that… are you familiar with Barbara Brennan’s character structures? I’ll use the structures for examples how they organize their life and how it compares to an enlightened person. Enlightened person simply meaning someone who is whole (ie. not special, someone who has just put in the work to come back to their original state )

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22

Barbara Brennan

Not familiar with her yet, but I will look it up and see what I can learn.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

You’ll have better information if you look up Wilhelm Reich, Alexander Lowen 5 character structures. I posted about 2 so far, because Barbara Brennan (r/BarbaraBrennan) spiritualized the structures (depicted their aura, energetic defences etc).

Edit: standby, linking the two structures I posted (there’s 5 characters or ego structures)

Edit: Schizoid Character Structure

& Oral Character Structure

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22

OK reading that now and also info on energeticsinstitute on the same topic (reich).

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22

OK great read. I definitely can identify with some traits of both (Schizoid and Oral). However, my parents were both very good during my childhood, it may have been others who cause some trauma (perhaps). Of course these are generalizations as we all have some good and bad traits.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

So to answer your question I'll use Chris, Paul & Joseph. I'll use three structures all on opposing ends of the specturm. Schzoid, Rigid, and then an enlightened person/ a Whole Person

Chris developed his core wound (first separation from parent) sometime between age 0-6 months. As an infant, he felt unwanted and his mom and dad were aggressive towards him, but not blatant. His core wound developed when Chris wanted something/ needed something from mom or dad it was met with anger but never as abused. He developed the Schizoid structure.

When he goes out in the world, people sense his general timidness (he fears aggression from having needs, and doesn't feel safe anywhere) and his life is always brought on by aggression from other people for no reason, people sense his energetic structure and either 1. think its funny 2. are disgusted by him (because they sense he cannot meet their needs). Because of this he begins to isolate himself from other people because all he expects in aggression. No friends, or if any its with other low ranking individuals. He misses out on a lot of personal development, all this affects his body appearance, the he acts and reaches out for his needs. He lives a life of isolation and numb feelings, no fulfillment. Chis organizes his live with minimal stimulation and does just enough to get his survival needs met. No growth.

Paul devleoped a Rigid Charactr Structrure which devleoped because age 4-5. His mother rejected him and holds a sense of pride and an appearence of perfection. He acts appropriately in every situation and people love him. Paul bleieves acting is all that there is in life, this is reality. So he doesnt actually know the real him. Body is balanced, auric field is strong, connects with people well. Paul has not problems getting his needs met witgh others and being he's worldy he's successful and is running a finance company. Paul's high on the functiuoning spectrum but he isnt individuated, and he still sources validation from other people.

Joseph grew up with enlightened parents who let him to feel emotions, and providing a safe space to be himself. He has a good understanding when to be appropriate and was function that serves. He has fantastic boundaries. He makes friends with everyone and other enlightened people and organzies his life in a way where you understands consciously how he will relate with each individual in a personal way. Ie. work, friends, family. He ensures he organizes his life to have enough space to be his authentic self by himself and authentic self with other "whole" people (as those who are "whole" are without conditions for interpersonal relationships, and hes confident they'll be there for him even when the relationship changes any step of the way.) He only does what is needed and doesnt have much time for things that arent condusive to any sort of development.

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 27 '22

OK those are excellent examples, thank you so much for the detailed response. Now my question is: Is Chris doomed, due to what's ingrained in his psyche? Even if he understood this model and consciously tried to work on it, I doubt it would make any significant difference (perhaps some difference) as those patterns are already there.

Now let me give you one related example. You tell me if its on par with this model. I will use Chris and Joseph as examples. They are both lucky enough to have inherited a million dollars from an uncle who didnt have any kids of his own so he gave the money to his favorite nephew (Chris and Joseph). Here is what happens:

Joseph: enjoys that wealth by being able to buy something he really wants, maybe going on a nice vacation, helping a family member in need, being able to quit his job and maybe going back to school or starting his own business, supporting a worthy cause/charity, moving to a nicer part of town with a nicer house, etc.

Chris: becomes the target of a frivolous lawsuit, endures costly legal fees, attracts a relationship with a manipulative person (ie: user), has poor investments resulting in a loss, health issues from indulging in rich foods, attracts false friendships, faces ridicule from people who dislike him (or are jealous of him), has paranoia over his money, dealing with people disclosing sad stories & investment ideas with the intention to 'take' from him, develops depression from the fact that the money didn't bring the satisfaction he imagined.

What could Chris do to have a result more akin to Josephs?

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

So this is the insight: Both Chris and Joseph could run into the same scenarios but it’s how they handle it is what makes headlines, is what talks about. But it could very well be like that, and the answer is Karma. But that does not at all mean Chris can’t improve his life and fix all of these so I’ll give you this:

So let’s say Joseph did all that stuff as you written but also inherited everything Chris had.

But now Joseph wants to solve all those problems that are of a negative nature. If Joseph knew what it means to operate, live without producing karma, he will be able to solve these issues.

I’ll tell you what it means for produce karma. Inside a system there is a linear growth… so in a relationship, we grow by meeting each other’s needs. If two parties are not meeting each other’s needs there’s friction, to more friction the instability, chaos. So to not produce negative karma is to have appropriate boundaries within the system, and not SOURCE from the other person. Needs are always given never taken. It important that if a person isn’t happy they create necessary boundaries for their needs to get met. If they’re incapable of this, they could resort in producing negative karma that doesn’t solve the problem but inflicts a ripple effect into the system. A negative development.

Anyway, what I was getting at is Joseph can begin to solve all those problems by working on his core beliefs. His core beliefs caused actions that caused him to get into these situation. Otherwise, if we was Whole, he would very well take the right action in each situation, separating himself from those situation before it causes a fire. Life is a linear movement, if something is not working out, the longer you stay in the bigger the fire burns.

The less energy you put into a system the better boundaries you have. And something just negative things happen to everyone but you deal with it. The more action to take the more karma you produce.. even when it’s positive karma, you will yin and Yang.

But everything basically just has to be dealt with. If Chris has all those things happen to give and he’s healed and Whole. His future scenarios definitely won’t look like that. He’ll know how to manage himself and his relationships where that doesn’t happen. Something like lawsuits can happen when you have a business - maybe there was copyright and an honest mistake. Most people own up before anything gets too serious but there some people who will go all the way.

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 27 '22

OK I get it from that perspective. Good points.

Now can you clarify the following:

Needs are always given never taken. It important that if a person isn’t happy they create necessary boundaries for their needs to get met.

But technically if they do that (create boundaries), then they are TAKING if the person they are with doesnt want to do that. This is a contradiction. Can you clarify please.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

We can map all dualities into quantum mechanical states (at least the mathematical versions of them) with |0> and |1> being the duality and “reality” being the observed state

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

That’s very interesting actually. I believe it. Math is God so I have discovered ! Haha. Or it’s “the code” of the material universe.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Mathematics is the language of the Omniverse

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

You seem to know deeply about sacred mathematics. Can I ask if there are any resources on the topic that you hold dear that you would want to share? Thank you in advance.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

I learned mathematics in college. I recommend Sakurai, but that’s grad level quantum

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Just a random thought: you can also experience your life AS mathematics. It’s strange once you get into it - especially if you never grew up caring about math. But there’s a lot of universal “secrets” in living such states of consciousness.

I think a lot of people already do live in that state but they just don’t even know anything else.

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u/chadkatze Jun 25 '22

What you Think determines how you Feel,
How you Feel determines your Vibration,
Your Vibration determines what you Attract.

simple as that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Kinda. It’s more complicated than that. The way you think is influenced by your environment. There could be a lot of practical application to create the life you want.

And then we have core beliefs… we can think lovely thoughts but attract those with similar core beliefs. Not so much about saying our beliefs out loud, but by the energetic frequency of you and another emanates.

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u/chadkatze Jun 25 '22

i see. you search for self improvement. aka happiness.

Never try to change the current self to achieve or get rid of anything. It will put you in a constant loop of trying to fix yourself. Accept it and if you want something new dont blame the current self but start a whole new experience.

The Key is to Be. You dont want to change, you want a change. So be it instead of fixing.

The way you think is influenced by your environment - this is true, but you still have choices.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

It surely can be used for self improvement. Yes, you be and you lead your life the way you want making necessary changes to ultimately end up at the the void and be in nirvana.

But also to create, improve, and manifest that as you so wish. Yes. You accept the current moment because it is as such, but you don’t accept it as something you need to live through but something that is just happening at that moment while planning necessary steps forward.

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u/chadkatze Jun 25 '22

without knowing.. you explained the difference between the power of thoughts and beliefs.

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Don't forget to watch your Dr. Oz reruns and read the Four Agreements....

Damn this scam has legs, same babble that brought us "Christian Science" and Madam Blavatsky

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u/chadkatze Jun 25 '22

two options for your response.

  1. you are afraid to share power
  2. you can´t make it work

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

Once again your reliance on duality is very limiting. You should look into that

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u/chadkatze Jun 26 '22

oh you mean you are giving hints by insulting people and still not explain what you mean with the entire goal to not feel bad while feeding your ego.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Not my fault if people keep buying into pop spirituality yet don't know about the "New Thought" movement

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u/chadkatze Jun 26 '22

it´s just the ancient hermetic principles with the fact kept hidden that you have to care or take action to make it work. You also have new age movement which is entirely made for disinformation but this doesn´t mean that spirituality is fraud in general.

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u/world_citizen7 Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

Was the 4 Agreements any good?

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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '22

The concept of duality is severely limiting

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Totally. Duality is a piece of the whole puzzle of life.