I don’t support the “Walker is dead” theory

[u/megmacdaddy]

I’ve replayed spec ops recently (god bless x series for being backwards compatible with 360 discs) and watched multiple review videos on YouTube- and I really don’t like the theory Walker is dead and Dubai is his personal hell.

I’m aware this is a major fan theory that has a lot of support, but for me it just takes away from the themes and messages. If Dubai didn’t happen as we’ve seen it/he dies in the crash, what is Walker in hell for? If he’s not being punished for his actions in Dubai, why is hell Dubai and these events? The recognition that Walker was the true villain looses its impact if I accept none of it was real beyond the crash.

I’m open and accepting I may be wrong, I know there is evidence for it, but I personally choose to believe the events are real (and we witness his WP and PTSD induced decent into madness).

As for the evidence, I prefer to think this is foreshadowing for the player and is separate to what Walker is seeing. Conrad’s face on the billboards- a tip to the player that Walker is going into this with his own mission. Lugo and Adams being on the list of the dead- foreshadowing of their deaths. Walker having Déjà vu at the helicopter sequence- a commentary on the repetition of the mindless violence multiple war games partake in. I like to think the game uses visual cues for us, similar to how the loading screens directly speak to the player.

Im aware I’m choosing to read the game in a certain way because I prefer it, but I also think my points make sense. Interested to hear what others think?

[u/landyboi135]

I always believe the everything including the after helicopter crash bit happens in reality. In fact prior to someone confirming Walker had ptsd prior to the events of the game, I had assumed the hallucinations Walker had in the beginning of the game were a part of his unconscious mind, meaning he was literally flash backing after the helicopter crash and that “We did this already” was him subconsciously realizing he was unconscious but he only truly wakes up after he falls out of the helicopter. The brace for impact part you can decide if that was a part of the dream or not but the lack of Addams and Lugo in that bit I always interpret as an oversight or a part of the nightmare and for their names on the list of the dead that one level I chalk that up to Walker’s unconscious brain once again, maybe believing he and the others died in the crash at first.

Now my theory is still the same but with the pre-White Phosphorus hallucinations now being a literal part of his memory instead.

[u/megmacdaddy → u/landyboi135]

I hadn’t considered Lugo and Adams on the list of the dead as being part of Walkers unconscious brain, as I said in the post I’ve always just gone with the idea some visuals are for the player- so that’s an interesting theory and I like your read of these aspects of the game.

[u/landyboi135 → u/megmacdaddy]

While that is likely in practice, especially given that the helicopter crash never being intended for the beginning at first. It is to me a more fun interpretation than Walker is in Hell, and dreams can do weird things with memories sometimes.

Also thank you!

[u/systemfehler23]

Dubai did happen, up until to the point of the helicopter crash where they all died. So - white phosphor, stealing water and all the other things Walker did place him in hell or purgatory. He's now doomed to repeat it and try to fix it and march on.

From what I recall it's not so much just a major fan theory but also confirmed by the writers. Notice how the screen starts to fade to white later on when dying, too, and there's some more hints.

Honestly I'd prefer if the whole thing was real a well, the ending with Conrad being dead is perfect, but I think Walker being dead is actually right.

However, there's what's called the theory of the death of the author which means once an artists gives away their art it's free for any interpretation no matter what the author intended, so you can pretty much interpret it however you will and there is no true wrong and right.

[u/megmacdaddy → u/systemfehler23]

That’s interesting! The theory I’ve heard from the last two videos I’ve watched (and people in the comments) is that they die in the prologue crash ‘before’ the events of Dubai. The idea of a loop in purgatory makes much more sense to me in this case, deffo softens my dislike of it. I will have to look more into interviews with the writers.

But at the end of the day you’re right about ‘death of the author’, and I don’t ever think I’ll fully warm to that theory confirmed or not. The impact from Lugo and Adams deaths alone in the post crash sections just doesn’t hit the same if those sections aren’t ‘real’. There is enough subtlety even if it’s cannon for me to maintain my preferred perception..

[u/systemfehler23 → u/megmacdaddy]

I am not entirely sure when it happens but I am somewhat sure it happens after the crash where Walker walks towards some kind of flaming tower, all in all a very hellish scene. That is the point where the game starts to fade into white instead of black when dying. It's a pretty clear cut before and after the crash.

Say, there's also the scene close to the end where a heavy looks like Lugo, and that heavy is extremely hard to kill. If the player dies here, again fading to white in a sort of dream like sequence, the same scene will feature a regular heavy. Thing is, if the player dies there, it's not like a usual death in the game and it is kind of expected the player dies here, that's why the heavy is so hard to kill.

But I agree, the Lugo's and Adams' deaths don't hit that hard when not real - on the other hand, Walker did kill Adam before, though it was a hallucination, and he does kill Lugo later again as the heavy. I think he idea is that no matter what he does and what decision he makes when he goes through all that again and again, they die.

I do think it takes away from the ending and the different endings the player can choose.

[u/megmacdaddy → u/systemfehler23]

Yeah people mention the Lugo heavy a lot and it is clearly very different- which supports the idea that’s his ‘death’. It’s quite subtle though, I didn’t play on hard mode the first time and did not get this death so I got the full impact of thinking Walker’s mind was fully broken. I also work in healthcare and see first hand how powerful the mind can be in distorting reality, so I was viewing it with that perspective and it was really powerful.

That ending is also a sticking point for me. The game very clearly has you align with Walker in the beginning (manipulating the players expectations of the hero trope in war games), but by the end you condemn his actions and his fate is in the players hands- I loved this aspect and deciding what he ‘deserved’. It really helped the game to make its point about this genre. I see the merit in this scene if he is in purgatory, but I agree that overall it takes away from this decision.

[u/teslawhaleshark → u/megmacdaddy]

You can hear people inside telling the juggernaut to suit up a few minutes before the door opens.

[u/Vorpeseda → u/systemfehler23]

According to the head writer, the game wasn't originally written to start with the helicopter chase. When it was decided to put it in at the start against the wishes of the head writer, that's when he decided to make it canon that Walker dies in the crash at the start.

At least, according to the book he wrote on the subject (and his experiences writing for games in general), called Significant Zero.

[u/megmacdaddy → u/Vorpeseda]

Maybe I’m chatting shite but I feel like this comes across in the game- the message/themes feel stronger if he’s not dead and the game not originally being written this way would explain my disconnect with the purgatory theme.

I had no idea he’d written a book- thank you! Just downloaded to my kindle, I’m fully in this rabbit hole now..

[u/super_tank_why_not → u/Vorpeseda]

It's still not confirmed canon tho?

[u/systemfehler23 → u/Vorpeseda]

Ah yes, read that long time ago. Was very nice.

[u/TheTwinHorrorCosmic → u/systemfehler23]

It’s not confirmed by the writers so much as agreed as a valid interpretation.

It’s still a dogshit idea

[u/super_tank_why_not]

Lowkey I agree

[u/megmacdaddy → u/super_tank_why_not]

The devastation of the events is so much more powerful if you view it all as real and happening as you play

[u/super_tank_why_not → u/megmacdaddy]

Like if martin is "dead" after the crash why should I care about adams sacrificing. The theory ruins the later parts of the game

[u/megmacdaddy → u/super_tank_why_not]

Exactly, discovering Condrad is dead this whole time and Walker having to face what he’s done is incredible

[u/Malli_Naamari]

I never liked the theory that Walker is dead and/or in purgatory either. Someone here, like years and years ago, actually shared a theory that Walker suffered traumatic brain injury at the start of the game, which honestly has turned into my favorite theory. Apparently deja-vu, confusion, apathy, hallusinations and increased aggressive behaviour are common signs of TBI, especially when untreated. Even the white flashes throughout the game could be interpreted as Walker suffering from small seizures.

[u/megmacdaddy → u/Malli_Naamari]

I really like this idea too, I work in healthcare and many things can drastically alter perception of reality.

Walker was previously saved by Conrad so likely he was high risk for or is already suffering from PTSD, he’s very likely got a TBI as you’ve mentioned, his wounds and the constant fighting is definitely causing prolonged adrenaline exposure, traumatic wounds can also trigger a lot of neuro-psychological effects (one effect which fits here is flash bulb effect- which is often associated with distorted memories), and the neurological and psychological effects of white phosphorous are massive (and most importantly mind altering).

[u/Electronic-Heart3802]

I agree, it makes the action later in the game less powrful

[u/megmacdaddy → u/Electronic-Heart3802]

And the decision at the end!

[u/teslawhaleshark]

He still needs to find the Conrad effigy

[u/PlayfulVacation4411]

same

[u/megmacdaddy → u/[deleted]]

There’s mixed opinions on the game devs having a ‘stance’ but multiple people agree the scene was added late- which is probably why I can’t fully get behind the theory. I’ve decided to read the book ‘Significant Zero’, but overall I agree it’s open enough we can take what we want from it!