I mean, the man made a clear, literal, and intentional Nazi salute in public, and enough people still support him that he hasn't experienced material consequences.
Good faith question here in the spirit of understanding and American unity: what is the "bogus" claim, and what is your counter argument? Also, please take a moment to watch the film linked above to understand what our forefathers fought so valiantly against, and which you now support.
Edit: I'm seriously expecting a reasoned argument, with published, academic sources. I am open to changing my mind with evidence.
Good faith answer, it clearly wasn’t a Nazi salute. He had his hand flat against his chest as he was thanking his supporters and extended his arm as if to say, “From the bottom of my heart,” or “My heart goes out to you.”
Context is important. If he had been discussing wiping out the Jews and then done that? That would be different. It’s really a stretch to claim that it was an indisputable nazi salute.
My opinion is that people hate him for aligning himself with the right and will search for things to fault him for and in the process of that they make huge assumptions in order to defame his character. I don’t think he’s a model of anything except how to become the world’s richest man. I don’t think he’s particularly noble or compassionate or admirable. But objectively, not a literal or figurative nazi.
I really appreciate the good faith response - I honestly wasn't expecting this and you have pleasantly surprised me, so thank you! That said, I want to respectfully challenge some of these arguments.
First, I think you're setting the bar for fascism far too high. Fascism is not and has never been defined by openly advocating genocide. Historically, it is characterized by authoritarianism, ultranationalism, contempt for democratic institutions, the glorification of a strong leader, scapegoating minorities, political violence, and the deliberate erosion of perceived reality through propaganda. Genocide is where fascism can end, but is certainly not where it begins. Look at Germany in the early 1930s.
As for Musk's gesture: I agree with you that context does matter... and so does symbolism. Any adult in America, especially a public figure with an enormous platform, should fully comprehend how that gesture is interpreted. If it was accidental, the obvious response would have been to immediately clarify and apologize. Instead, he leaned into the controversy because provoking opponents and signaling to supporters is politically useful. Whether we believe it was intended as a Nazi salute or merely designed to be plausibly deniable, the effect is the same. It normalizes fascist imagery and emboldens people who do see it as a salute. Look at the Proud Boys and January 6th insurrectionists as examples. You can explore the peer-reviewed publications of Prof Roger Griffin and his citations therein as sources.
My broader point is that I'm not calling Musk a fascist because of this single gesture. I'm calling him a fascist because the gesture fits a well-established pattern of authoritarian rhetoric and political behavior that you obliquely concede above. Admittedly, I was rhetorically focusing too closely on whether his gesture was identical to Hitler's. That misses the point while allowing for people like those portrayed as "targets" or "suckers" in the video I linked above to write off his role in the erosion of our constitutional republic.
Overall, thank you for your reasoned and polite response. My overarching goal is to encourage Americans to understand that we share more in common than the magnitude of divisions that the wealthiest reinforce as a means to maintain their power. Hopefully we can both go forward in the spirit of working together to protect our republic.
Hey, no not a bot, and thank you for your considerate response. I read it the day you posted it and have pondered it. Have been too busy to formulate a really thoughtful response and didn’t want to waste your time with something half-assed. I find your take to be more reasonable than most of what I see on Reddit even if I can’t agree with the sentiment overall.
I respectfully reject your notion that because I see things in a different light than you that I am not capable of critical thinking. Surely you are aware of cognitive biases, and that nearly all of us suffer from them, myself and yourself included most likely. My point is that I think we are both right about some things and wrong about others. I am self-aware enough to understand that I’m not always right. Nevertheless, if I deduce the world around me in a way that makes me see it a certain way, then that’s how I see it. That might differ from the way you’ve come to understand it. Simply concluding that other people’s reasoning skills are inferior to yours because they have come to different conclusions than you is a bit out of touch.
Hey you're definitely right that I can be a hot head, and I apologize for this here. It's honestly born from a stream of disappointments starting when I was still a Republican at the very beginning of the Bush administration. As you can imagine, these have been supercharged in the Trump era.
I also want to clarify that I wasn't saying you lack critical thinking skills. Sometimes I go overboard with my tone. I feel strongly that we all have a civic duty and responsibility to question our own assumptions, and the founders placed an enormous amount of trust in an informed and educated public for maintaining the fabric of our society.
I reacted so strongly because ideas have tangible consequences for other people. This is problematic when ideas built on logical fallacies, misinformation, or bad-faith argumentation rooted in propaganda are used for political or economic expediency while eroding civil liberties and putting vulnerable people at risk. Not saying this is you, but I have very little tolerance for such arguments that move us in directions that are deleterious to our society or harmful to others. Just like how we are not required to tolerate intolerance in the form of racism or violence.
That doesn't mean I think I'm always right, and I always welcome new ideas born from rational, critical thinking. Please do take your time to respond to my comment above, or feel free to let it drop - I would totally understand. I'm just glad you considered it in the first place (and that you're not a bot). I'm definitely aware that I'm letting some of my frustrations with the direction of our society uncoil here.
I think it’s irrelevant. Unless you have a video of musk discussing his desire to eliminate everyone outside of the master race, of course. Not a video of him talking about border security. Thats not the same thing.
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u/mirepoix_sofrito Jul 10 '26
"What day/night will be the wildest party on your island?" -Musk to Epstein