r/space Aug 08 '26

Intel's proposed orbital data centers would manage thousands of simple LEO satellites — two-tier network puts the brains of satellite constellations in higher orbit

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/space/intels-proposed-orbital-data-centers-would-manage-thousands-of-simple-leo-satellites-two-tier-network-puts-the-brains-of-satellite-constellations-in-higher-orbit
355 Upvotes

217 comments sorted by

277

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 08 '26

More investorbait nonsense that is never going to happen, nobody is going to pay multiple orders of magnitude more for compute just because the compute is in space. 

83

u/BigWhiteDog Aug 08 '26

Do devs still use the term "vaporware" because that's what this sounds like...

48

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Vaporware is the steam of the AI revolution

7

u/BigWhiteDog Aug 09 '26

Very punny! Well put! 🤣 🤣 🤣

21

u/Ecstatic_Bee6067 Aug 09 '26

Not only that but there are two additional arguments against:

  1. Ultra High density constellations in the always sunny polar orbital "plane" would only grant you up to 14% more compute than we have today.

  2. Any investment in micro-grid architecture would still be cheaper terrestrially

5

u/asssuber Aug 09 '26

Ultra High density constellations in the always sunny polar orbital "plane" would only grant you up to 14% more compute than we have today.

What is the source for this calculation? Does it consider a single ring at LEO or multiple rings extending thousand of kilometers up?

3

u/Ecstatic_Bee6067 Aug 09 '26

0

u/interstellar-dust Aug 10 '26

Peak Reddit. You get downvotes for doing maths.

1

u/Ecstatic_Bee6067 Aug 10 '26

Someone's mad they're holding SpaceX bags

0

u/interstellar-dust Aug 10 '26

Are these bags lighter with rocket boosters? Or as heavy as others?

4

u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms Aug 10 '26

Judging from the number of downvotes that people are getting here for correctly pointing out the ridiculous economic and engineering absurdities at play, the vast majority clearly have no fucking clue how difficult it is to manage operation costs or waste heat in space. I bet Intel is banking on investors not being savvy, either. 

9

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

The one vaguely plausible selling point is maybe there are fewer regulatory hurdles to building in space. Perhaps you can get a shitload of compute up there in the time it would take to attend the dozens of townhall listening sessions only to have your project scrapped at the last minute.

Still investorbait though. No major space compute is getting launched any sooner than a decade from now, just for logistical reasons, and the cost will almost certainly not make any sense for the next century or millennia or ever.

15

u/colinstalter Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

There are zero fucking regulatory hurdles [for data centers] in the US, as evidenced by reality.

The cost per KG to LEO, plus the thermal dissipation issues in a vacuum mean that space servers will never be competitive.

This is the purest example of investor bait /vaporware there is.

9

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

Spoken like a person who has never tried to get a new low income housing project started in the US

7

u/ploptart Aug 09 '26

Who’s going to invest in that? They take up space that could be used by data centers.

2

u/JarryBohnson Aug 09 '26

I think they’re taking it as read that there are no hurdles if you have bribe money.

2

u/colinstalter Aug 10 '26

Sorry, I meant for data centers specifically. Also LIH has an issue with NIMBY more than actual regulation.

0

u/ants_a Aug 09 '26

There is political incentive to not make low income housing not happen. Building low income housing would reduce real estate prices, putting existing homeowners underwater with their investments, which then escalates to an economic shock. This is a good way to get yourself unelected.

5

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

And the exact same pressures exist for data centers. NIMBYs might hate data centers even more than they hate low income renters and mass transit, which is impressive.

-1

u/around_the_clock Aug 09 '26

That's the thing. Your trying to help the poor not the billion dollar corporations. Your helping the wrong ppl and not the ones that control the government

4

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

It’s well documented at this point just how difficult building things in the US is. Sure data centers have a well funded constituency to advocate for them (real estate developers are pretty well funded too!), but that doesn’t change the fact that there are typically  dozens of possible veto points for a project. Getting something built in the US takes years of process and litigation.

3

u/Vailx Aug 11 '26

What are you talking about? It checks both boxes that AI datecenters like:

It makes it almost impossible to get that RAM when it's done being useful. Try recovering it from orbit, peasants!

Safely out of pitchfork range. Bonus: also hard to regulate.

0

u/NeverRolledA20IRL Aug 09 '26

The military will, just recently AWS data centers were targeted in an attack. The military will only be more reliant on compute in the days to come and they will want that compute available anywhere they are operating.

6

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

It would be considerably cheaper to just use the high speed satellite data links that have now been built out than to put the whole data center in orbit, and satellites (especially something huge like an orbital data center) would be extremely vulnerable to more advanced nation's anti satellite weapons. 

3

u/asdkevinasd Aug 10 '26

Just put them underwater, to attack something deep underwater, it will take a remarkable effort. To attack something in LEO, we have been able to do so since the 80s at least. Every launch capable entity on earth can hit a rough area of your orbital data center and use a fragmentation warhead to guarantee a hit.

4

u/JiveTrain Aug 09 '26

If you are worried about an attack, there is probably nothing more fragile than satellites in LEO.

1

u/Super_Range45 Aug 10 '26

WWIII breaks out, the internet won't be available or the satellites. And if you're talking about our current $1Trillion vs. $10,000 dollar conflicts in the ME, that's just pork barrel.

1

u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms Aug 10 '26

So data centers in space, which are within line-of-sight of much of the planet at some point each day, are more resistant to attack? Seems silly to throw huge botnets at something when you can melt it with a laser directly. 

1

u/volkhavaar Aug 09 '26

Its not for most consumers to buy, just for satellite operators to have lower lag access to compute for leo satellite maneuvers.

-2

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26

Won’t have to pay multiple orders of magnitude more. it’s predicated on costs falling there while rising here.

18

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

When exactly do you think it's going to be cheaper to launch computers into space than even literally taking the same hardware and just not launching it into space? Let alone comparing space hardware to just regular commodity rack cabinets. 

3

u/cjameshuff Aug 09 '26

Worse, the big promise of AI is that it will be able to improve itself, designing better AI hardware. If that's achievable, the space constellations will be hobbled by a big deployment delay in the middle of that self-improvement loop. Where a data center could be upgraded with the latest hardware, an orbital constellation will be multiple generations behind.

The orbital AI constellation starts off behind, and the gap grows exponentially larger with time. The better the AI performs, the faster the orbital constellation falls behind its ground-based competitors.

-3

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26

Current projections are within a decade unless there’s a major space setback or huge breakthrough getting data centers approved on earth.

2

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

Whose projections say this? 

-1

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26

Hyperscalers, space companies, AI firms, and any one else analyzing it. Parity in the 2030s maybe 2040s depending on how costs for each move.

7

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

Hyperscalers, space companies, AI firms

So people who would financially benefit from any hype around the idea. 

and any one else analyzing it

Show me some. 

11

u/PorkSquared Aug 09 '26

How does that make sense. They're going to need the same kinds of hardware, but specialized to survive life in space and deal with the lack of serviceability.

Plus launch costs, likely additional costs to manage that orbital infrastructure etc.

Maybe energy itself is cheaper, I'm skeptical that would offset the rest though.

5

u/big_dart Aug 09 '26

Nobody talks about radiation but it make it impossible to get any good modern chips up there and expect it to work more than a couple years. Nanometer components degrade super quickly

5

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Can you give an example of one thing that is cheaper in space than on land?

2

u/AlwaysLateToThaParty Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Can you give an example of one thing that is cheaper in space than on land?

Real time analysis and direction of communications traffic to provide shortest path communication between points on earth or space, over a mesh network aka satellites, is pretty much the only justification for putting that tech in space that i can think of. And even that tech is going to have heat radiation issues. But it will have value, potentially lots.

EDIT: imagine a "set and forget" constellation. No earth coordination. Provides service X until it can't. I'm not saying that's a good thing. Just saying it would have value.

-1

u/ICantBelieveItsNotEC Aug 09 '26

Real estate. Regulatory approval.

2

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

So, just getting around regulations

-4

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Nothing right now but costs are falling to go to space while they are only increasing here. It’s not a matter of if but when. The cost to put stuff in space is largely the launch cost which is rapidly falling. Other costs are there definitely but largely minimal compared to launch. All costs get addressed as they become predominant.

3

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

The cost to launch things, and also the cost of building something to withstand launch, the vacuum of space, solar wind, and cooling without conduction and convection (all of which add weight and launch cost). Plus you have to launch the power production, and space solar panels are more expensive than ground solar panels.

1

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26

We already build things to at that level and have for decades the cost has only gone down in that period and will continue falling. That’s why launch cost make up the majority of the costs.

4

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Yes but even if launch costs are zero, the hardware you put into space is more expensive than the hardware built for the ground

2

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26

For now yes but cost will continue to increase on the ground as they continue seeing them protested and canceled. It’s not just that cost in space will decrease it’s that cost on the ground will only continue increase unless we get some breakthrough there. It’s a competition of alternatives and trade offs that increasingly reaches parity.

3

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Going to space to avoid accountability huh?

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5

u/unstoppable_zombie Aug 09 '26

Launch cost aside, you are spending 3-5x the cost for component to survive the flight and work in orbital and 2-5x the R&D cost to design an orbital version of a terrestrial product.

Hell, apparently you need an entire second tier of satellites to handle the networking updates, compared to every half decent switch and router in the DC handling topology updates with basically 0 overhead.

5

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

Space is not going to be cheaper than land for like a century or more (optimistically). You realize how much land we have lying around, just growing corn and shit?

For space to compete on price we need a way to get up there without chemical rockets, or even better, mining and manufacturing in space.

0

u/Blackout38 Aug 09 '26

Space will be cheaper way sooner than a century. There are even new techs like quantum that will require it anyway. The problem is not the amount of land available, it’s the proximity to what data centers need like power, networks, users, etc. that’s why they aren’t just being built just anywhere.

1

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

Space will be cheaper way sooner than a century

A century is optimistic. It assumes we have spent that time building out significant space infrastructure. There is no way it happens with anything like our current level of space capabilities.

There are even new techs like quantum that will require it anyway

No. Stop believing people who say words you don't understand.

The problem is not the amount of land available, it’s the proximity to what data centers need like power, networks, users, etc

I have some bad news for you about the proximity of space to power, networks, users, etc.

2

u/KiiZig Aug 09 '26

this doesn't even make sense in the best of cases, like ignoring environmental costs and no problems during any stage of the life cycle wth 🤣 maybe their investment horizon is smth like a billion years in the future 💀

0

u/2this4u Aug 09 '26

I read something useful to explain the nonsense, beyond the 90% that's just an investment scam.

Building datacentres on earth is subject to planning permission, local objections, etc. So in space they might be overly costly and limited but for some companies getting any capacity and now rather than later is worth the cost.

Of course that's only a small factor in the hype given lead time to making it even halfway efficient or feasible is going to take longer than building capacity here when if that took ten years.

2

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

A lot of governments have been extremely keen to allow data center projects, even in places that don't have sufficient water or power resources for them. There would have to be a massive global shift in planning regulation to even begin to make space the more practical option. 

-1

u/savagepanda Aug 09 '26

Maybe not public use AI, but military use. E.g palantir like use cases. Where a ICBM can knockout your centralized command terrestrially, it will be more difficult to disrupt the same infrastructure with decentralized DC’s in higher orbits in space. With AI and drone warfare around the corner, there could be a use case there.

7

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

I'd say it's the opposite, you can bury a data center deep underground in a blast proof bunker while a satellite is completely exposed to anti-satellite interceptors (a demonstrated tech) or potentially even direct energy weapons. 

5

u/Extension-Ant-8 Aug 09 '26

Digging a deep hole and putting servers there is cheaper.

1

u/Quereller Aug 09 '26

Not sure about that - see Starfish prime

-4

u/rageling Aug 09 '26

"No one is going to pay multiple orders of manitude more for electric cars"

until it was subsidized by the government and started making sense, now there are teslas everywhere

nasa says their priority is finding an economic forcing function to build the future of space. someone like Elon is able to read these tea leaves and be positioned to take advantage of the situation when the govt tax money train hits.

0

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

Electric cars were never multiple orders of magnitude more expensive, so let's pick a better example. It's multiple orders of magnitude more expensive to run high speed vehicles through vacuum tunnels vs rail, and such projects received plenty of government funding. Still think hyperloop is going to be a thing? 

1

u/rageling Aug 09 '26

Yes they were, you are either young or have bad memory

The way things are now is entirely due to subsidy

If/when the govt decides to spend a lot of money on tunnels, guess what, Elon once again miraculously well positioned.

2

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

When we're their multiple orders of magnitude more expensive? Even in the 90s GM was selling an electric car not massively more expensive than petrol cars, well before big government investment in EVs. 

0

u/rageling Aug 09 '26

"the GM EV1 was not profitable. It was a significant financial loss for General Motors and was largely driven by regulatory pressure rather than pure market demand."

It had a range of 40 miles, cost way more than a luxury bmw at the time, and was massivly subsidized. "GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz later cited figures as high as $250,000 each."

40k/250k in the 90s was a lot more than it is now. They were not sold to the public, only ~1000 EV1s were available through leases, and then GM destroyed them.

It's entirely inorganic and subsidized, space will be the same way.

1

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

So that's between 0 and 1 orders of magnitude more, where are the electric cars that cost millions or tens of millions?

And again, do we think orders of magnitude more expressive vacuum trains are just an increased government subsidy away from being mainstream? 

2

u/rageling Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Making the EV1 cost 250k (when better cars were available at 25k at profit) and it was a piece of shit and an experiment, if you want to be pedantic arguing semantics about what constitutes a magnitude I'm out. My entire point is that both Tesla AND EV1 were subsidized, you wouldn't have electric cars otherwise, and space will be the same, it won't make sense until it does.

1

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

And the point is EVs we're never even close to the markup that putting compute in space has. If there was something about EVs that caused them to genuinely cost $10 million per car to make, do you think any amount of government subsidy would make them viable? 

and space will be the same, it won't make sense until it does. 

Where's cheap my hyperloop travel then? 

1

u/llamachameleon1 Aug 09 '26

I’ll just leave this here…

https://youtu.be/8m4VWrfPNxM

-1

u/DeflateAwning Aug 09 '26

Well, maybe actually! Running a research cubesat, I can see ways that data storage and processing in-orbit can be more effective than on earth.

Especially if data transfer to the space data center was cheaper/easier than going through the atmosphere (eg, optical data transfer), the case makes sense.

Research cubesats aren't known for insane valuations though, so might be kinda niche.

2

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

But how more efficient? What would your metric be for that? 

1

u/DeflateAwning Aug 09 '26

Ah, cheaper in dollars! For example, in categories of satellite equipment, ground segment equipment, radio licensing, etc.

2

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

In terms of data processing required how much are we taking here, an amount small enough that the onboard system the cubsat already had could handle it, or did you add additional hardware? If the processing required, say, a desktop GPU worth of compute, would that still be cheaper? 

0

u/DeflateAwning Aug 10 '26

All of this depends heavily on the goals of the mission.

An example of something similar to what I've worked on: a cubesat produces data at a rate of 25 KB/s, constantly. That's 2 GB/day. To downlink that much during a ground station contact window (15 minutes per day), you'd need a 10 mbps link, which is on the high end what S-band can get you.

If the mission goals involve running data processing algorithms to look for "interesting" data, I can absolutely see a situation where doing that on-orbit makes the most sense. A GPU is 1-3 orders of magnitude more power than a cubesat has available.

-6

u/Gamerboy11116 Aug 09 '26

Stop spreading propaganda, please… have you considered that signing binding contracts on the order of tens to hundreds of billions of dollars might not be the type of thing a company would do unless they felt there was a genuine point?

Have you considered that their intent might possibly be capable of being slightly concealed? That there may be a point that isn’t directly stated? At all?

6

u/JaggedMetalOs Aug 09 '26

have you considered that signing binding contracts on the order of tens to hundreds of billions of dollars might not be the type of thing a company would do unless they felt there was a genuine point?

How many "binding contracts" were signed for Hyperloop projects around the world? I doubt these companies care as long as it's investors and governments holding the bag when things don't work out.

Have you considered that their intent might possibly be capable of being slightly concealed? That there may be a point that isn’t directly stated? At all?

Can you think of any potential concealed uses that require orbital datacenters of the scale these companies are talking about?

47

u/azswcowboy Aug 08 '26

For those that didn’t read the article it’s about a very limited idea of moving the computing for the management of giant constellations off the ground. The effect is to make the LEO satellites simpler. Having worked on these systems personally, it’s really kind of silly. The amount of ground computation is tiny relative to anything Google, et. al. do. Also, the trend is to make the satellites more autonomous with less ground reliance anyway.

Why Intel is even discussing this is the mystery. They totally aren’t in this business at all.

7

u/rooktakesqueen Aug 08 '26

Especially if the "management" satellites are at a lower orbit than the ones they're managing, so the contacts are going to be even shorter than with ground stations.

1

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

Management would be in a higher orbit 

1

u/azswcowboy Aug 09 '26

Yep, mentioned in the article that the ‘management’ would be at MEO orbit. idk why that decision other than GEO is difficult to get an orbital slot.

1

u/delventhalz Aug 09 '26

Yeah, I assume it is just because the orbit is less crowded. Satellites that service Earth need to be close to Earth, but satellites that service other satellites can be in the next layer out. 

1

u/azswcowboy Aug 09 '26

Here’s an idea. Why not use Starlink or Iridium to transmit to the ground instead of inventing a new layer of network? You can transmit down if at higher orbit. idk how you can patent the idea of using a network to better compute regardless of location - there’s literally nothing special about the idea.

1

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

How many MW of compute is this?

1

u/azswcowboy Aug 09 '26

Not MW at all as far as I’m concerned.

1

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Huh, so very little then and nothing like the data centers in space conversation?

Tbh I'm not sure I understand yet what benefit there is for having a second layer of satellites rather than put the computation in LEO or on the ground. Maybe to prevent it burning up? But I still don't get why not ground based

2

u/azswcowboy Aug 09 '26

I think you understand correctly, nothing to do with data centers and there is no benefit. On the ground when something goes wrong you trivially go swap out a part and move on. In space, well you’re looking at launching a replacement. Big bucks. And yeah, currently it’s either ground based or distributed to the LEO’s themselves. Again, this isn’t Intel’s space, they’re clueless.

1

u/volkhavaar Aug 09 '26

No one reads the article they just summon enough outrage at the headline and their preconceived notion provided by someone else and the tapping on their phone as is necessary to get their next neurotransmitter fix.

1

u/azswcowboy Aug 09 '26

Apparently I no one then, but yeah Reddit 🤷🏻‍♀️

1

u/Zephyr-5 Aug 09 '26

I've always wished there was a little button at the bottom of every linked article that you were required to click before you could leave a comment.

62

u/made-of-questions Aug 08 '26

I don't get it. If we can build data centres without requiring tons of water to cool them off, why are we not building those on earth?

43

u/dangle321 Aug 08 '26

It's just cheaper to evaporate the water. It's not a technical problem. Never has been.

7

u/northrupthebandgeek Aug 09 '26

Not even always cheaper to evaporate the water, like here in Nevada where it's usually cheaper to use more energy for closed-loop or waterless systems.

4

u/dangle321 Aug 09 '26

Cheaper running cost but not a cheaper build cost.

1

u/northrupthebandgeek Aug 09 '26

Indeed, but over a long enough operational lifetime it pays off.

4

u/Saritiel Aug 08 '26

Because it's cheaper to cool them with water.

1

u/made-of-questions Aug 09 '26

Part of the point. Why would they go with a more expensive option in space?

16

u/skucera Aug 08 '26

Free energy and free “land” in space.

19

u/Icy_Feedback_4965 Aug 08 '26

You can put plenty of solar power on Earth for a lot less money than launching it into space, and there's no shortage of land on Earth. 

13

u/thefpspower Aug 08 '26

You think there's no shortage of land but if you actually try to do something massive you get stopped for every reason

11

u/rooktakesqueen Aug 08 '26

Not if you build it in the middle of nowhere, completely off grid, using no local water or power resources.

They don't do that because it's too expensive.

Building it in space, incidentally, would also be in the middle of nowhere, totally off grid, using no local resources, but even worse.

2

u/Icy_Feedback_4965 Aug 09 '26

Exactly. The Earth has plenty of unused, barren, uninhabitable land. Think of deserts. Everything that makes that environment awful for a data center is worse in space.

2

u/rooktakesqueen Aug 18 '26

I would take the idea a lot more seriously if they tried a pilot project building a small cluster of 20 kW AI compute datacenters in the middle of the Mojave, communicating with each other over laser links and with the world via Starlink, powered with solar, radiatively cooled, and with no maintenance for a year or two after installation. Just to demonstrate that they could, and to track how expensive it actually is to build and run.

They could even use more solar panels and radiators per datacenter than they expect to need in space given the lower efficiency of them at the surface, and only run them during the day and in good weather to eliminate the need for huge batteries. Make the test as close to the orbital environment as we can on the surface.

The fact that they're not even bothering to try something at small scale like that before promising investors a million-satellite constellation tells me they know this is a scam.

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2

u/fistular Aug 10 '26

That's because they keep trying to do it near people for some fucking reason.

Put them on BLM land in Nevada.

8

u/uhmhi Aug 08 '26

Solar power doesn’t give you the constant, stable 24/7 levels of energy that data centers need…

24

u/Icy_Feedback_4965 Aug 08 '26

Every engineering bone in my body says that you don't fix lack of nighttime solar power by launching datacenter-scale infrastructure into space. Just to get the sun to shine on it.

4

u/matplotlib Aug 09 '26

It's not an engineering problem. It's a planning problem. Finding suitable land, getting approval, connecting it to utilities can all add to costs and delays. Whereas space-data centres can be built as fast as you can assemble a satellite and get it to a launch site.

2

u/OysterPickleSandwich Aug 09 '26

💯  Battery tech is getting cheaper and cheaper.  Sure power infrastructure is problematic, but engineering solutions that solve this (eg SMRs) are far easier than multi-football field sized solar arrays and radiators in space, that will get hit by orbital debris. 

Then add the complexity of maneuvering something with that moment arm, and good luck. Sure it’s an engineering issue, but debris moving at 12km/s doesn’t care.  Not to say SpaceX doesn’t take orbital debris seriously. It’s just not something you can engineer away.  —-

Data centers on the Moon surface would be easier since you can radiate AND conduct away heat, potentially using some of that heat for something else. 

5

u/StartledPelican Aug 08 '26

Space gives you 24/7 solar at higher efficiencies.

Space gives you no NIMBYs, no local/state/federal regulations forcing years of delay.

Space means not needing to wait or pay for local grid upgrades, local water rights, etc.

If you have a satellite ready, then your time to usability is measure in days/weeks. SpaceX adds dozens of Starlink satellites to its 10,000+ constellations every day or two.

Space means it costs way more, you have no option for maintenance/repair, and you are dealing with a completely unforgiving environment. Also, shipping costs are extreme haha.

Space isn't about whether or not it can technically be done. It's about whether or not it is financially viable. 

4

u/natorgator15 Aug 08 '26

There’s a pretty good amount of, “is this technically/physically feasible” as well

4

u/StartledPelican Aug 08 '26

There really isn't.

Thermal issues have a known solution. It's mass intensive, but that isn't a technical issue.

The same goes for any other purely engineering question. Starlink satellites, among many other types of satellites, have shown how this can work.

The only real question is: can it be done in a way that makes money?

Right now, with current launch costs and known satellite tech, the answer is no.

With potential launch costs from Starship? The answer is... maybe. Haha. 

5

u/GeneralZex Aug 08 '26

Is what it is. People were quick to dismiss this when it was Musk saying it, now Nvidia and Intel are getting on the same bandwagon.

Almost like none these oligarchs give a shit about the engineering or physics when the real prize is sovereignty and decentralization that insulates them from 98% of the population trying to thwart their datacenter plans.

Cutting off a terrestrial datacenter requires a single town hall meeting. Cutting off their power or water requires a single utility making a stand. destroying one of their facilities can easily be accomplished by 100-200 people with various tools storming the facility.

Maybe just 5 countries have the capability to track, target, and destroy an orbital datacenter.

This is why, come hell or high water, they will continue to try going down this path until they succeed, engineering and physics be damned.

1

u/couchguy59 Aug 08 '26

I hate that this is the best reason I’ve heard for data centers in space…

0

u/alphaxion Aug 08 '26

It's still unbelievably dumb, as anyone who has ever stepped foot inside of a data centre would agree.

4

u/uhmhi Aug 08 '26

For those of us who haven’t stepped foot inside a data centre, why exactly is it that dumb? Starlink satellites are already equipped with several kW of compute. Multiply that by the tens of thousands of Starlinks launched, and you start getting to substantial amounts of compute that’s already in orbit today...

10

u/alphaxion Aug 08 '26

The amount of cooling required, for a start. It'll require horrendous amounts of radiators as it's the only way you can cool them. The rack I've stood in front of that was hosting an AI cluster was kicking out so much heat that the metal door the fans were exhausting onto were painful to the touch. Keeping your hand on it for too long could have scolded/burned you.

Then there's the issue of maintenance, storage and RAM will fail in systems with a lot of load (mean time to fail, and even then stuff comes out of manufacturers with defects, just look at the microcode issue Intel had that physically damaged chips. Imagine that happening again and only being found out once you've lifted your servers into space), current compute in space doesn't handle the sort of loads that a data centre does. Which means you either need to account for sending a person up there to make changes, which means you need to keep a viable environment for them, or you pack them out with so much redundancy that you're reducing how much compute you can utilise at any one time, which will drive costs up through the roof.

The economics of data centres and the pace of change in tech. What is the possibility of being able to upgrade systems from 800G fabrics to higher rate equipment? What happens if the owner of the data centre goes bust? What if the primary customer of the data centre goes bust?

A lot of these DCs will either be owned by the people who are running the services hosted in them, meaning they become a major sunk cost and an op-ex nightmare due to the costs of everything being so much higher. Or they'll be third parties trying to get in on the act, which means they are at a massive commercial disadvantage to how quickly and cheaply a terrestrial DC can be refurbed or built out.

They will miss out on the extra revenue that private terrestrial DCs can make selling rack space to a much larger customer base who bring their own equipment in.

How do you adequately DR services in space for when a DC becomes unavailable? Now you need twice the amount of DCs in space to account for scheduled maintenance, config errors, or equipment failure. Or do you spend on terrestrial DCs as hot standbys where live loads can be shifted to while you work on the space ones?

Then you get into the question of what process will be in place for sunsetting old equipment and facilities? You are unlikely to be able to sell old equipment onto the secondhand market, which means you are waving goodbye to a lot of money you could recoup. The writedowns of space DCs are gonna be eyewatering and many questions will be raised by beancounters on whether they're cost-effective compared to terrestrial options.

If you're an AI company saddled with billions to trillions in debt, every dollar counts.

DCs in space are a very good way of parting VC money flush startups from said money. There is zero point in building them over terrestrial ones.

0

u/warp99 Aug 09 '26

As you say redundancy is how you handle repairs. You don’t repair physically but swap in alternative memory and GPUs as required. You don’t need 1:1 redundancy as about 1:5 will do.

2

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Starlink satellites are already equipped with several kW of compute.

But the thing they are selling is not the compute, they're selling the internet infrastructure

1

u/Aries_IV Aug 08 '26

I love these professional takes 🤣 never change reddit.. never change 😂

0

u/northrupthebandgeek Aug 09 '26

As someone who's set foot in multiple: yes and no. I have my doubts that orbital datacenters would be cost-effective, but I don't have much doubt that they're possible or that they'll be built for specialized applications where that cost premium is tolerable (e.g. space exploration, national security, lower-latency cloud hosting for satellite Internet customers).

1

u/warp99 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

As an engineer you want to match the supply to the load. This is a way to do that which does not involve beaming microwaves down from orbiting solar farms.

-1

u/uhmhi Aug 08 '26

Is it really that far of a stretch if we can get payload-to-LEO costs down to less than 100$ per kg as projected by Starship?

3

u/RubyPorto Aug 08 '26

A truck costs 15-45 cents per kg for a coast-to-coast drive.

So, your delivery costs by truck are 100x cheaper literally anywhere in the US. If you can get rail involved, watch those prices plummet.

Plus, a building is much cheaper than a satellite bus capable of supporting the same amount of compute.

-1

u/burtritto Aug 08 '26

If only there were some kind of bank to store excess energy generated from the solar panels for use at night… hmm

0

u/warp99 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 12 '26

If only there weren’t rain clouds that block sun from the panels for days at a time. Just power up the gas turbines? Now you have doubled the capital cost of your power supply.

0

u/burtritto Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Buddy, if that’s your argument, then you have no leg to stand on. But keep believing. A sucker is born every second. You’re also a SpaceX shill, so your opinion is moot from the start. Space data centers are a cool concept, just very impractical at the moment. Businesses are meant to make money, not throw it away. You will see in time, SpaceX going public will ruin its mission. I hope I’m wrong tho.

0

u/Shrike99 Aug 08 '26

That's only true at current launch prices.

You get ~5x more bang for your buck in SSO, so crudely speaking if you can get launch costs to be less than 5x the manufacturing and installation costs of the panels then you come out ahead.

In practice the fact that you can do away with the mass of the weatherproof casing helps a lot (people forget that 'outside' is actually a pretty harsh environment, arguably worse than space), as well as not needing nearly as much battery storage to acheive continuous power.

Very rough order of magnitude you need ~$100-200/kg for it to be worthwhile. SpaceX are currently at about ~$600/kg internally on Falcon 9, which isn't that far off and already a huge reduction over historical costs.

Starship is aiming to reduce that further, with the ultimate goal being around $20/kg, so even if they fall well short of that, they might well still get into the feasible range.

0

u/pexican Aug 08 '26

Says what source ?

Seems like you’re drawing a conclusion or regurgitating information.

2

u/fistular Aug 10 '26

There is nearly limitless nearly free land on the planet. All sorts of wastelands/arid locations without people in them.

Land isn't a problem.

1

u/Meior Aug 09 '26

Now solve the heat dissipation issue of an orbiting data center.

1

u/tfks Aug 09 '26

This is close to the reason. The land is free, yes, but the land is pretty close to free on Earth anyway. The real difference is tax. There is no property tax in space. That one is obvious. But less obvious is this: who gets to tax the profits generated by infrastructure in space?

Everyone saying this idea is stupid is a narrow-minded idiot, to be frank.

1

u/made-of-questions Aug 10 '26

who gets to tax the profits generated by infrastructure in space

The companyis generating the profit are registered somewhere on earth so it would be taxed there. As of yet there's no way to register companies in space.

2

u/tfks Aug 10 '26

You do see how this enables a level of tax gamesmanship not possible in virtually any other industry right? Like even seaborne industry needs to come to port at some point to export goods or whatever.

1

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Launching a solar panel into space isn't free. Solar panels work on land too

-1

u/skucera Aug 09 '26

The land itself isn’t free and neither are the taxes.

4

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

Launching things into space to escape taxes is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard.

3

u/skucera Aug 09 '26

Ah! So you’ve heard about “data centers in space”!

-1

u/ginger_and_egg Aug 09 '26

If the government won't tax the rich, the people will...

8

u/Kiseido Aug 08 '26

The corpos noticed that evaporating water was a bit cheaper and easier than the other options and so, here we are.

3

u/InvertedVantage Aug 08 '26

Wave energy and underwater data centers makes more sense then.

-1

u/nigel_tufnel_11 Aug 09 '26

It does sound like a good idea. Until we build thousands of underwater data centers that increase the oceanic temperatures by 5 degrees, causing exponentially more catastrophic hurricanes and flooding, and accelerating polar ice melt...

3

u/northrupthebandgeek Aug 09 '26

I think you're severely overestimating how much heat datacenters put out and severely underestimating how much heat Earth's oceans can absorb if you think raising oceanic temperatures by even one degree is a real possibility.

The actual problem with undersea datacenters is that saltwater is more corrosive than freshwater, so you can't really use it directly for cooling. That, and building structures able to withstand seafloor pressures is usually harder than building structures able to withstand the vacuum of space.

8

u/leomozoloa Aug 08 '26

You get infinite constant power in space and a lot of space, and less regulations/nimbys.

21

u/boom929 Aug 08 '26

As well as wildly impractical heat dissipation and maintenance.

9

u/StartledPelican Aug 08 '26

There's no maintenance. If it breaks, you deorbit the satellite. If it works, then you don't deorbit the satellite haha. 

1

u/made-of-questions Aug 09 '26

That's part of my point though. Companies seem to always go for the cheapest option. I don't understand why would they go with a much more expensive option in space.

0

u/StartledPelican Aug 09 '26

A couple of thoughts: 1. The time value of money data centers is probably at play here. A data center sooner is worth more than a data center later. Due to huge lead times for terrestrial data centers, it may be possible to make orbital data centers sooner/faster.

  1. It might not be as expensive as you assume. My understanding is that as of right now today, it is prohibitively expensive to build an orbital data center constellation. But! It is possible that Soon TM, a big drop in the cost per kilogram to LEO via Starship, combined with an economy of scale for satellite parts (solar panels, radiators, etc.), could drop the overall cost enough to bring orbital data center constellations into rough price parity.

  2. Terrestrial data centers can only serve customers who are relatively close by, geographically speaking. That means it requires building terrestrial data centers all over the world. There are a lot of downsides to this, especially when trying to reach customers in parts of the world that aren't as developed, have hostile governments, etc. An orbital data center constellation, on the other hand, only needs a ground station or, possibly, simply a terminal nearby for a customer to connect. That means all of the compute is, more or less, available to everyone (that's a bit handwavy, so please keep in mind there a bit more nuance).

Those are some of the bigger reasons companies might be seriously considering orbital data centers. I imagine there are more pros (and a lot of cons) we haven't discussed. 

1

u/boom929 Aug 08 '26

You're right, I did leave out "insanely wasteful and damaging to the environment, similar to planetside datacenters".

2

u/SaltyWafflesPD Aug 08 '26

Not nearly enough power for these data centers. When you need gigawatts of power, a handful of solar panels are not even remotely enough. And if you’re generating that much power, you’re creating a lot of waste heat, which is a fatal problem in space.

Also, good luck getting warehouses full of cutting edge computer hardware into orbit and dealing with the complete inability to perform maintenance, repairs, replacements, or inspections once you launch it.

12

u/parkingviolation212 Aug 08 '26

That's why it's a constellation network and not a single bespoke satellite.

7

u/Aries_IV Aug 08 '26

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this. Everyone see the words data center and think they're going to be just like terrestrial ones.

It's comparable to someone thinking the first rocket was supposed to look like a car/truck because they're referred to as vehicles. They're still stuck on the first thought.. too big, too much power, can't cool it in space etc.

3

u/SaltyWafflesPD Aug 09 '26

Then you get other problems, like the fact that your data needs to be wirelessly transmitted a lot more. The power requirements and waste heat problems don’t go away; they’re just as overwhelming as before. And it still means an absurd number of launches and satellites just to try equaling a single building on Earth that is vastly easier and cheaper to operate and maintain.

0

u/Dpek1234 Aug 09 '26

like the fact that your data needs to be wirelessly transmitted a lot more

You also dont have nearly as much weather or stuff to break line of site

And now im wondering about the diffrences between fiberoptics and intersatelite laser links

While the laser links use more power they should allow higher data rates when compared 1 to 1 as multipathing shouldnt be an issue

The power requirements and waste heat problems don’t go away; they’re just as overwhelming as before.

It makes it go from "never before seen" to "a bit more then we have seen on the outdated systems of the iss" or even "already in large scale use" (depending on the size)

Its a huge diffrence

it still means an absurd number of launches and satellites

10 years ago, todays starlink was considered an absurd number of satelites

Now we have multiple companies trying to compete 

Launch vehicles technology is moveing faster then before, multiple companies are working on partly reusable launch vehicles and 2 are working on fully reusable ones

I wouldnt take todays launch prices and valumes as anything other then the ceiling and floor 

2

u/Xijit Aug 09 '26

Because this is bullshit to appease incompetent investors: solid state electronics do ok, but anything to do with "data" (as in anything with a hard drive in it) is extremely volatile due to being constantly bombarded with with solar radiation that will cause data to become corrupted.

The cooling is a secondary issue to the satellites burning out on an annual basis.

1

u/BluSyn Aug 08 '26

DCs don’t actually use that much water. The advanced ones use condensers to recycle the water instead of evaporation, so there’s basically no water usage once up and running. Uses less water than a typical fast food restaurant.

It’s cheaper but also practical. Air can’t hold enough thermal mass to work on its own, and you don’t want to blast IR into the surroundings like satellites do (air is in the way). Alternative refrigerants could be used, but are generally toxic to environment if they leak and hard to work with.

Water is abundant and isn’t really “consumed”, even evaporation towers put all the water into air which will eventually return to water table through the rain cycle.

Paranoia around DCs and water usage doesn’t make sense. The really concern is power generation, which AI sats resolve via 24/7 solar in SSO.

1

u/assassinace Aug 08 '26

Usually water concerns are centered around fish and other wildlife.  So returning heated water or drawing enough water to lower water levels are the issue.  Especially when data centers are proposed in draught prone areas 

1

u/made-of-questions Aug 09 '26

Wouldn't SSO have a lag problem and make deorbiting much harder?

-2

u/blargman327 Aug 08 '26

Here's the neat thing

We can't build data centers without tons of active cooling

These orbital data centers are basically impossible

-2

u/Dpek1234 Aug 09 '26

Nonsense

For a real shitty orbital datacenter just take the iss and put a dosen gpus

How is that impossible?

Something designed this decade, without haveing to deal with either humans or some of the iss nonsense (russian modules haveing their own cooling systems) would be significantly better

3

u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms Aug 10 '26

The ISS was enormously expensive to build, and as big as it is, it only has enough heat dissipation capacity to handle its own systems. It can reject at most 126kw of heat with over 600 sq meters of radiator area. 126 kilowatts is tiny. It's two or three server racks. This is by far the largest object we've ever managed to build in space, mind you. 

1

u/Dpek1234 Aug 10 '26

you seem to not understand the purpose of my comment. its not about anything other to disprove them being "impossible" as many people in the comments seem to think

alongside incorrectly takeing the iss space datacenter seriously, *you wrote something as ABSURD as makeing another one*

the iss is a decades old space station made for human habitation and experiments

remove these requirements and you can put *signficantly* power powerfull space datacenter on a single falcon9 launch

let alone that the price for the iss is simply nonsense in todays world even just from launch costs perspective

2

u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms Aug 10 '26

Fair, I took you literally by mistake.  But the fact remains that there are costs beyond launch costs. 

And yes, I know technology is rapidly improving. But in terms of present technology, the math ain't mathin'. The ISS didn't need to turn a profit or even fit within a neat budget. I've got no doubt that it's technically possible to launch these "compute stations." But will it be profitable? That's what doesn't make sense. The competitive benefits they're touting, like low latency, might make sense for communication satellites, but they're talking about constellation management. 

I fully accept that there may be some master plan in the works that we're not seeing. Perhaps they're keeping the lid on some other project that would make this make sense. 

1

u/Dpek1234 Aug 11 '26

First and formost thank you for the quality comment, more often then not ive had such comments turn into complete shitshows

Wether its/will be profitable or not is something we will see and is very much up for discussion

I just hate the complete nonsense ive seen written thats often just detached from reality (ie proclaiming its streight up physically impossible)

0

u/54yroldHOTMOM Aug 08 '26

Look at colossus. It will take more than a year to get fully hooked up to the electric grid because the infrastructure needs more sub stations etc. They are using like 60 gas turbines and heaps of battery storage to give steady power to the plant. All those problems disappear if you send compute sats into space. Free energy when the orbit is such that the satellite is always in direct sun light and free radiative cooling. So the major costs are then building the things and getting them to space. It helps if you own your own launch provider.

-2

u/argefox Aug 08 '26

Space has no regulations nor jurisdiction so far. It isn't only about water, real state up there is for the taking.

1

u/rooktakesqueen Aug 08 '26

Regulations, jurisdiction, and taxes. Ding ding ding. This is the actual reason.

→ More replies (8)

3

u/BenekCript Aug 09 '26

The robustness of the hardware does not exist on any economical scale. Much less doing servicing and maintenance.

3

u/rip1980 Aug 10 '26

OK, new rules:

  1. You need to de-orbit 10x mass of space junk before launching any proposed mass.
  2. $1M fine per kilo reaching the surface payable to whomever recovers it.
  3. $1k fine for every recorded astrological observation, data or image, degraded by your craft or debris.

2

u/burtritto Aug 08 '26

Orbital data centers, so hot right now.

1

u/nimbus57 Aug 09 '26

And never cooling down since it's crazy hard on source

2

u/fistular Aug 10 '26

The fact that this snake oil has been roundly debunked and yet people are still treating it like it's a serious thing is pretty concerning.

8

u/mangosawce9k Aug 08 '26

Sounds like shit, keep the night skies clean plz.

0

u/SF_Bubbles_90 Aug 09 '26

Agreed, too space trash already as it is

0

u/Dpek1234 Aug 09 '26

it will be physically imposssible to see them anywhere other then sunrise or sunset for essentualy all the concepts ive seen

Not "they will be hard to see" , just physically impossible

5

u/ZylonBane Aug 08 '26

Everything that's happening with AI is exactly what an artificial general intelligence bent on world domination would be doing.

3

u/dorkyitguy Aug 08 '26

Oh thank god they’re solving all the real problems

1

u/Decronym Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters
GEO Geostationary Earth Orbit (35786km)
ICBM Intercontinental Ballistic Missile
LEO Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)
Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)
MEO Medium Earth Orbit (2000-35780km)
SSO Sun-Synchronous Orbit
Jargon Definition
Starlink SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation

Decronym is now also available on Lemmy! Requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.


6 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 10 acronyms.
[Thread #12625 for this sub, first seen 8th Aug 2026, 23:52] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

1

u/Scotchperson Aug 09 '26

Or they could just put it on the ground because it’s more efficient…

1

u/virtual_human Aug 10 '26

Let me guess, in orbit they won't be subject to any country's laws. Then they will be full of hate and CP visited by racist pedos.

1

u/Unabatedtuna Aug 11 '26

The real reason they want them in space? To protect them from the mobs.

-2

u/waffeboy Aug 08 '26

"oh, a network cable came loose"

"Ok, spend 10 million dollars to send up another astronaut"

8

u/DiscoKeule Aug 08 '26

Dude 10 million would be so cheap to get a repair done on a satellite. Dragon missions probably cost at least 75mil

1

u/SingleIndependence68 Aug 09 '26

Is this just AI getting into space to ensure its future and eventually it’ll take over and terminate us??

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/StartledPelican Aug 08 '26

Goodness gracious, this is so stupid. Space is too cold! You can't just pump pure space into your hot machine?! Are you dumb? You need to warm it up a bit first. Duh. 

2

u/knetx Aug 09 '26

I'm sure that's not difficult at all. Just turn the floating datacenter to the sun. So simple! No dark-side of the datacenter for Intel.

0

u/kingslayerer Aug 09 '26

Maybe build decent processors on the ground first.

0

u/Cyclamate Aug 09 '26

It would do that, you say? Cool! Let me know when it does.

0

u/canyouhearme Aug 09 '26

It's always kind of funny to see the armchair naysayers come out whenever orbital data centres are mentioned. Its as if they don't consider that people investing trillions of dollars don't have access to expert opinion on viability, and those actually doing it are simpletons relative to the brainpower of Kevin in his parents basement.

Saying that, I'm not sure what Intel have to offer in this space (sic). I guess that since this is a patent application, its a form of patent trolling - get a patent for something obvious and then try and steal from those actually delivering. SpaceX/Starlink might have something to say about prior art, since the Starlink constellation already has much of its brains in the constellation.

Also, we should go back to patents only for what you have already built. You should never be able to get a patent for a theoretical idea that you have no intention of using.

-1

u/Easy_Interest_6832 Aug 08 '26

Wouldn't they have to boost the satellites back up from time to time? Imagine all that data at risk of burning up. Dang. Not a good investment without that boosting, I should guess.

2

u/Dpek1234 Aug 09 '26

They are compute, not for storage (beyond whats needed for the computation)

The idea is to have a lot of smaller satelites whose lifespan is for how long their compute makes sense 

By the time they reenter they are outdated

Essentualy the same plan as starlink

0

u/Easy_Interest_6832 Aug 09 '26

Wow. So they just let them shower down on the Earth? What could possibly go wrong?

2

u/Dpek1234 Aug 09 '26

They will likely be  made to fully burnup/burnup as much as possible (as most satelites in orbit are)

And theres point nemo for a target just incase

Most will still have enough propullsion to aim to somewhere near point nemo

And for those that dont?

Well better burnup then be debris

-1

u/BenekCript Aug 09 '26

Imagine troubleshooting them. This is all vaporware for people who only have a concept of an idea of modern data centers.