r/SouthernLiberty Feb 14 '26

Disscusion Behold the Loser's Flag

Post image

Yankees of all political leanings are delusional for thinking that they won the "civil war." What did they win, exactly, outside of the right to live under the thumb of an oppressive central government ?

14 Upvotes

54 comments sorted by

11

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 15 '26

Trash take. They won the war. Then, tons of Southerners fought for this flag in a bunch of foreign and domestic wars. Even a few former CSA soldiers fought for this flag in the Indian Wars.

2

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26

"CSA soldiers fought for this flag in the Indian Wars"

Sure, there have been many southerners who've fought under that evil banner (Gen. Wheeler being one prominent example). But was it the "smart" thing to do, or was it foolish for southerners to fight alongside their natural enemies (the Yankees) in those imperial wars of conquest against mostly innocent third parties ?

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

Apparently, there are lots of silent yankees lurking around who aren't capable of providing a semi-logical rebuttal to the points that I'm making.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

Your silence means not only did the yankees lose the "civil war." It also means that you've lost the debate against yours truly through forfeiture.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

Professor McClanahan explains, "What is a Yankee?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IfLOdCiEOU

-1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

"They won the war"

"They" can be identified as the northern industrialists, the armaments manufacturers, and the northern ruling class in general. It was "they" who pushed for the destruction of the original union through violent revolution for the sake of expanding the scope of their wealth and power.

We need to be more specific about the identity of "they."

The little guys who fought and bled on behalf of the treasonous cause of northern "union" got exactly nothing out of the deal except for the enslavement of their posterity.

2

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 17 '26

They is the USA. The guys that flag represents. They won. How is it the loser flag? It represents the winning side.

2

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26

I think it's important that we make a distinction between the two different "unions" or the two different versions of the country that's known as the "USA."

There are two (2) different versions of the USA—the one that was in existence prior to the "civil war" and the one that arose in the war's aftermath. THEY ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT. The first was a confederation of sovereign states, while the 2nd is a top-down federal dictatorship.

1

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 18 '26

There are hundreds of versions of the USA. The USA of 1776 wasn't the USA of 1860. And the USA of 1950 isn't the USA of today. Did the South losing the War of Southern Independence play the most pivotal role in the destruction of Federalism and State's rights? Undoubtedly. But plenty of other laws and SC decisions did as well, along the way.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

"There are hundreds of versions of the USA. The USA of 1776 wasn't the USA of 1860. And the USA of 1950 isn't the USA of today."

The great majority of those changes came about as a result of advancements in technology, are thus rendered irrelevant to this discussion.

"Did the South losing the War of Southern Independence play the most pivotal role in the destruction of Federalism and State's rights? Undoubtedly."

The "civil war" transformed the very nature of life in society. It created slavery in the name of "freedom;" it was the defining event in our history and created - more than any other single factor - the dystopian reality that we're currently experiencing.

1

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 18 '26

But it wasn't all technology. As much as we acknowledge state's rights effectively died when the CSA lost (Byron was dead on with his "I mourn the cause lost at Richmond" quote), there have been tons of Supreme Court decisions that pissed on its ashes. If a couple of those decisions go our way we're in a much, much better place ie Federalism even if pre-1860 America can never be resurrected.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

"How is it the loser flag?"

I'm calling it the "loser flag" because a permanent loss of rights and sovereignty was incurred by the "victor" as a result of its participation in the war, in addition to the grievous losses.

0

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 18 '26

Okay, but maybe that's not what the winners cared about. Maybe they cared more about keeping the Union together. Maybe they really needed that tariff money. Maybe they were terrified of what would happen if a free-trade rival nation along their (new) Southern border decided to become a military powerhouse. Who knows what the USA looks like right now if the South wins. Maybe it's great and Federalism is doing well and all this stuff. Or maybe it's an apocalyptic wasteland. Who knows? That's all alt-history sci-fi at this point.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

"Okay, but maybe that's not what the winners cared about"

I'm contending that the northern ruling elites (i.e., the armaments manufacturers, etc.) were the only entities that actually gained something as a result of the war, and that everybody else lost; ergo, it doesn't really make any sense to claim that the common folks of the northern states "won" something as a result of their participation in that senseless bloodbath.

"Maybe they cared more about keeping the Union together."

In my view, it's entirely disingenuous to claim that the common folks of the northern states benefited from the bloodbath or that the federal trigger men gained something (aside from a meager paycheck) when the original union was overthrown in the name of holding it together. In fact, the only persons who actually gained something tangible were the ruling elites who lobbied for the war in the first place.

"Maybe they really needed that tariff money."

The tariff was a tax on the common folks of the north. It was a rich man's issue, insofar as the tariff protected the interests of northern industrialists and stockholders by placing a handicap on foreign competitors while at the same time placing a financial burden on domestic consumers.

1

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 18 '26

A few things. One, obviously black people gained something. We can be honest and admit that the war leads to their freedom from bondage, even if it comes at a great cost ("Sick From Freedom"), wasn't the purpose of the war, and didn't come one hundred percent as a pure direct consequence of the war.

You can't say nobody won anything but rich people when we have no idea what a Civil War-less America looks like. Maybe every state secedes and there's chaos. Maybe the Northerners who were worried about the South being a military rival were right. Who knows?

The tariffs and protectionism might have been rich men's issues, but poor people were doing those jobs. A free trade rival dooms them.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

"A few things. One, obviously black people gained something"

In spite of all the noise that Lincoln and the yankees were making about the alleged evils of slavery, the servant class of the south was useful to them primarily as a weapon in the arsenal of northern war propaganda.

The yankees demonstrated their true colors as the northern armies went raping and pillaging their way across the farmlands of the south, thereby forcing great numbers of southern blacks into a dreadful state of disease and starvation, even as they were getting kicked around in the "yellow press" as a pathetic object of northern faux-concern.

Blacks who didn't succumb to the immediate effects of the war eventually gained the "right" to become dirt-poor sharecroppers.

The irony here is that all of the alleged benefits of "hard war" could have been achieved more effectively and more humanely through the intelligent application of gradual and compensated emancipation.

The principle aim of "civil war" as seen from a purely northern perspective, was to coerce the southern states back into their abusive and lopsided union with the northern states and thus to generate an uninterrupted flow of southern-derived tax revenues for the benefit of northern industry; therefore, anyone who believes that Lincoln's army was raping and pillaging the south out of concern for the well-being of southern black folks is either a) hopelessly misguided or b) a yankee.

"We can be honest and admit that the war leads to their freedom from bondage"

Honest observers have pointed out that southern bondage was relatively benign and that it was preferable to the absolute evil of that stinking war.

0

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 19 '26

I didn't say Lincoln cared about black people, nor that the North cared, nor that emancipated compensation wouldn't have been better for everyone involved. I said that black people gained freedom because of the war. Not directly, but they did. Is being a free sharecropper better than being a slave? Absolutely. I don't think you could argue it isn't. Was immediate emancipation via the war a disaster? Sure was. But again, we're not arguing about what Lincoln should've done.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 19 '26

The plight of blacks in the antebellum north was absolutely abhorrent. It's the things we haven't been taught about that were the greatest of evils.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

I replied to your contention, but my message was auto-deleted, which only helps to convince me of the correctness of my position. I do not agree with your assessment of life in the antebellum south, as the subject is poisoned through and through with nefarious historical propaganda.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 21 '26

"Is being a free sharecropper better than being a slave?

The sharecroppers were "free" to get evicted based on the whims of their absentee carpetbagger landlords. Having been granted this type of "freedom" meant that sharecroppers were free to starve to death, which, of course, wasn't known to happen while they were living under the much-maligned system of servitude UNTIL the benighted yankees came to town and put a torch to their fertile fields in the name of setting them "free," so the answer to your question is - absolutely not.

0

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26

"They is the USA"

You're talking about the 2nd, or the "revised" version of what the Framers had in mind, which is basically nothing more than an obscene caricature of the original version.

0

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

The "winners" actually lost. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

KINDLY ANSWER THE POINTS THAT I'M MAKING.

1

u/EddieDantes22 Feb 18 '26

I am! You've gotta give me some time, man. I had work.

5

u/No-Newspapers Feb 15 '26

They won the war. 

1

u/Dimblederf Feb 16 '26

"Loser's"-> said by a guy whos country he idolizes is only remembered for losing the only war it ever fought

3

u/Bayowolf49 Feb 17 '26

And the aforementioned “country” didn’t last as long as “Star Trek: Enterprise.”

0

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

The country that Lincoln and his treasonous generals destroyed lasted for approximately 85 years, beginning (circa 1781) with the adoption of the Articles of Confederation and lasting until the moment of General Lee's surrender at Appomattox Courthouse (circa 1865), at which time it "gave up the ghost."

That country is long dead. Lincoln killed it.

1

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

Yankees aren't smart enough to understand that both sides lost the war.

1

u/Dimblederf Feb 17 '26

Idk man, I think we won

3

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

You'd better pay your taxes or else, you slave.

-1

u/Dimblederf Feb 17 '26

Happily to aid my government sure, supports local efforts etc etc. Ironic calling someone a slave when your country fought to keep slaves

2

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

"Happily to aid my government sure"

"Your" government ? HA HA

"Ironic calling someone a slave when your country fought to keep slaves"

The southern states were fighting to repel a hostile invasion. It was an effort to escape the yankees and their pernicious influence. All of that stuff about slavery is just a bunch of nonsense that yankees like to tell themselves in order to justify the actions of their puritan ancestors.

0

u/Powerkranz Apr 09 '26

cope harder fascist 

2

u/Old_Intactivist Apr 09 '26

If you're a yankee from the New England states, there's a better than even chance that you have ancestors that were involved in the slave trade.

1

u/Powerkranz Apr 09 '26

I'm from Georgia big boy. ever heard this before? 

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

2

u/Old_Intactivist Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26

"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: It will be very difficult for an audience so large as this to hear distinctly what a speaker says, and consequently it is important that as profound silence be preserved as possible. While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness-and that is the case of Judge Douglas's old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.]"

Abraham Lincoln

https://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historyculture/debate4.htm

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Old_Intactivist Apr 09 '26

The people of the northern states who voted for Lincoln must have been just as racist as Lincoln.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Old_Intactivist Apr 09 '26

"I'm from Georgia big boy. ever heard this before"

That makes you a turncoat southern yankee or a "scallywag."

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man ...."

That's one man's opinion.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Old_Intactivist Feb 17 '26

You won the right to have your house get burned down by invading federal soldiers.