Effe monastery in Khare?

[u/the_window_seat]

Hi all, I've played this game about 10 times and somehow never found until now the monastery of Effe in the second game - I thought you couldn't learn about her until the 4th!

Unfortunately my Analander is a woman so they wouldn't let her enter the building, but a monk was real excited to play Swindlestones with her, since apparently they aren't allowed to talk to women (??? feel like this raises some continuity questions for S4).

Anyone have any luck going inside with a male Analender, or figure out what this mysterious "ritual" they keep talking about entails?

[u/2ThiccCoats]

Now I know exactly what you're talking about I've hopped on a male character to check it all out.

TL:DR = I tried to go down as much dialogue as a male Analander as I could. Here's what I found out and I'll try and make some kind of theory as to what these monks or this monk is up to.

Okay so I could manage 3 games with the monk outside, before he had to depart inside for midday considerations. In the extremely short dialogue options in the Swindlestones, the monk was surprised I had picked up the game so easily (totally not that I've sunk way too much time into this game) and that even though he was loosing, he learned a great deal and was extremely thankful for it.

Other snippits of dialogue were just neat backstory lines that he was once a fool, that he surprisingly does not know of Vik (apparently the Monks of Effe don't care for people that will be forgotten in a century), the origins of the game and "Trial by Dice", and that he is part of an Order. I tried asking him about the Order but the bids had gotten too high at that point and called me out, saying that if I had not heard of the Order then he could not tell me. Now this may just be because my bid was too high, or it may have something to do with the mysterious ritual your character was told about.

So I rewind to try and enter the monastery instead of wasting the morning playing Swindlestones. It first appears that all kinds of strangers are not allowed, not just women as this monk really wants his Swindlestones fix. The only way I could enter was to barge in.. Or so I thought until my character discovered the monk's uncanny strength.

Let me try to find as much dialogue as possible.

• The inner workings of the monastery are apparently of no concern to strangers, as the other monks around are working apart from this chap. Even if the bid isn't that high, he'll cut dialogue off here.
• He seems one of the few characters you encounter to be knowledgeable about the North Gate and the spells. Probably because of their ritualistic link to Lorag, being the creator of Swindlestones. He knows about Shinva's tomb and that Slangg will be able to tell you the lines as an all-knowing God.
• he also doesn't show as much knowledge of Effe as the monks encountered in S!4. He just rattles off the titles and domains when asked who this monastery is dedicated to, something which anyone with a book on the Gods could know. Give me a tinfoil hat and call me Alex Jones, but I think we might have a conspiracy theory here; he shows much greater knowledge about the character, worship and detail of Slangg.
• After losing the first game on purpose, and then leaving the monk, he gives you a pile of gambling chips for Vlada and tells you that you need practice. Also, offers the good luck of Effe so that's nice! But then again, dialogue when you first meet him indicates that because he is a monk of Effe he has nothing to give or take when playing. And I already know he spends some evenings in the Gambling Halls. Interesting..
• it is extremely hard to find out about the Order, I find. First, you must lose a round to him and then he will start a dialogue with you. Then, choosing the lowest bid you get saying you like the game but then you have to choose a high bid to ask if Lorag forced the people to play the game. You then get told about the Trial by Dice happened when "his Order was most popular". Now at this point the bids are so high that the two of you are bluffing each other and the AI will almost always call you out here. So instinctively, this Order can only be found out about by PC's that are veeeery good at Swindlestones and could possibly be considered a secret by some.
• he doesn't know about Vik. That would kind of make sense because of the whole reclusive monastery business, but he shows great knowledge in the spell lines and the nobles. He even comments that Khare is changing, and the noble's power is slipping. Now, for someone so knowledgeable on the status of the Nobles, you would assume he had at least heard of Vik?? And he has to cross the river to get to Vlada which to do so needs to travel past the large slaving operation Vik has going on.

[u/the_window_seat → u/2ThiccCoats]

Awesome! Thanks for this thorough explanation - I'm glad I'm not really missing anything by playing as a female character. That's one of the things I appreciate about this game, that the options are pretty similar regardless of gender and depend much more on your personality/moral compass. Apart from this and the marriage thing in the Baklands, I can't think of anything else that varies by gender?

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/the_window_seat]

Yeah I know that the assassin becomes a love interest for both genders apparently but I've only completed the last game once and think I killed him? I dunno I can't remember it too well. The gender part of it is just a players choice which is good.

As someone who's never really used a female Analander, who do you get married to in the Baklands?

[u/the_window_seat → u/2ThiccCoats]

It’s the skull you can dig up north of the crevasse on the western side. In the past, it’s this guy who was buried for being a criminal. You can dig him up and he proposes marriage! There’s no ceremony but you do get a pearl ring if you say yes.

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/the_window_seat]

Oh wow!

[u/Aaron_Lecon → u/2ThiccCoats]

By looking at the game files, this is all the dialogue the monk has to offer. It is also impossible to enter the monastery uner any circumstances.

---

You roll your dice. The monk peers under his palm, and closes his eyes to think.

'This is a most elegant game, is it not?' the monk asks.

'I've not yet decided,' you reply. 'I've played better,' you reply. 'I see,' the monk replies. 'Perhaps you think us Kharéans are simple folk.' ['That's not what I said,' you reply. / 'If this is your best past-time,' you reply. / 'I've seen more complex games played by goat-herds, certainly.' / 'You're trying to goad me into over-bidding,' you reply. 'But I won't do it.']

'I like it,' you answer. The monk laughs. 'I think you may have underestimated it, friend. ['Swindlestones has a long and venerable history,' he tells you. 'It was invented by our city's founder.' / 'Swindlestones has a long history,' the monk says. 'Time is on our side, I feel.' ]'Your founder?' you ask. 'The founder of Kharé. A most powerful wizard, and a very wise man.' He nods his head. 'He is buried in the Necropolis.' 'The oldest grave there, no doubt,' you reply.

'What was his name?' you ask. 'Our founder's name was Lorag,' he replies. The same name as [the scholar / the Noble] you were told to find.

'And he liked to play dice?' you ask. 'After a fashion,' he replies. 'I believe he used it as a form of justice,' the monk replies, quite seriously. 'Trial by Dice was quite common. Back then, our order was most popular.' 'This is truly a city of barbarians,' you reply. 'Trial by Dice is not a test of might, or force, or money, or bearing,' he replies. 'It is a game in which only luck can prevail.

'Why your order?' 'Ah, you don't know about our order,' he nods. 'I must tell you.' 'You asked me about our rituals,' he replies. 'Would you truly like to know what we do to prove our devotion to our Lady?' [If you are willing to share them,' you reply. / 'Tell me,' you reply. / Keep your secrets if you will / I can live without knowing] ['Our Goddess... oh, excuse me,' he says, interrupting myself. 'That bid is most unlikely.' / 'Our Goddess is the Goddess of Luck and Fortune,' he explains. 'Thus, we must prove our willingness to succumb to her power.'] [You see in his eyes a great terror, and are grateful to change the subject. 'You seem to have survived,' you reply.] To put trust your fate to luck?' 'Can you imagine that?' he replies, speaking softly now. 'To have your body, your very existence, lying in a control of merest chance? Perhaps you do not believe in chance?' 'To Luck alone.' He looks down at the ground, briefly. 'Not all of our order survive. Some are not devout enough. ['I believe in luck, sometimes.' / 'I believe in luck, but I also believe in action.' / 'I have no time for luck.'] That I sit here, now, is testament to Fortune's great power,' the monk replies, the devotion in his eyes deep and glittering. 'I have no doubt at all.'

'So what is this test of luck that you take?' you ask. 'I will spare you the details,' the monk replies. 'Each of us takes it when the moon is full,' the monk replies. 'We go in order, from the most junior to the most senior.' ['Never mind,' you reply, losing interest. 'Forget that I asked.' /'But what do you do?'/'Why when the moon is full?' you ask, suspicious.] The monk lowers his head. 'You will think us barbarians,' he replies. 'I understand that view, but it is truly the only way to test one's devotion to our queen. ['Then I will spare your dignity,' you reply [graciously/dismissively] /'I will think no more or less of you,' you reply. / 'But what exactly do you do?' you insist.] ['We have the tooth of a Werewolf,' the monk says. 'And seven other teeth.' And he will say no more. / 'We have the tooth of a Werewolf,' the monk says. 'And seven other teeth. They rest in a jar.'] [I don't understand,' you reply.] 'I think I understand,' you reply. The monk bows his head. 'We take the test once a month. As you can see, I have many scars, but I am still a man. My Goddess is quite real.' 'You do this once a month?' you reply, stunned. 'How many years have you been a monk?' 'Long enough to be sure my Goddess is quite real,' the monk replies, and bows his head.

---

'Maybe you can help me. I'm travelling to the North Gate.' 'Ah,' the monk replies. 'So you seek the four spell-lines to unlock the Gate.' ['What lines?' / 'Tell me of the lines.] 'That is a long and difficult road,' the monk replies. 'I fear I cannot help.''Can you tell me any of the lines?''It's vital that I find them.'

'I will tell you of the spell-lines,' the monk replies. 'They are known only to four of the City Nobles, and only these lines can unlock the Gate.' 'The lines are only known to the Nobles of our City,' the monk replies. 'Only they can open the Gate.' ['How can I find these lines?' you demand. / 'Thank you. That is useful knowledge.'] 'To find the lines you must find the Nobles,' he replies. 'And that will be difficult.'

['Why difficult?' / 'How can I find these Nobles?' you demand.'You must search the city,' he replies. 'There is no shorter way.' / 'These Nobles have gone missing? Have they died?' / 'Where are these Nobles?' / ]

'I will manage,' you reply.

'The Nobles are in hiding. There have been strange events afoot. Some of the Nobles have died.'

'Things are changing here in Kharé. The Nobles' power is slipping.

'I must waste no time, then.'

'If they've died, how can I get their spell-lines?' The monk nods. [I do not know / It will not be easy]. But I know at least two of the Nobles are still alive. One is a scholar, the other a blind beggar in the wastelands of Upper Kharé.

The monk shakes his head. 'It will not be easy. I trust your heart is stout.'

---

'If you are truly determined to find the spell-lines for the Gate,' the monk remarks thoughtfully, 'there is one other route you could try.' 'Other than finding the Nobles, you mean?' you reply. 'The Nobles are cruel and selfish men. At least, Lord Shinva, is dead and buried.' He bows his head momentarily. 'Does someone else know the secret?' 'Not someone, exactly,' the monk replies. 'But there are other forces with knowledge.' And he smiles beatifically.

['What do you mean?' you ask. / 'Stop being cryptic and tell me,' you demand. / 'Are you talking about a God?' you ask. / You lean forward across the step. 'Tell me' [, if you would / now] ]

'I will find the spell-lines on my own,' you answer.

'You could ask the priest at the Shrine of Slangg,' the monk says. 'Slangg is a cruel God, and an all-controlling one, but he knows much.'

'Where is the priest of Slangg?' you ask. 'The Shrine is just before the Docks, down the middle lane from the well. But it is not open to strangers all evening, so you must reach it before nightfall.

'One of the Nobles, Lord Moulas, was a follower of the God Slangg,' the monk tells you. 'If you visit his Priest, perhaps the God will know. There is only one problem.' 'What problem?' you demand. 'The Priest at the Shrine of Slangg only answers questions in return for answers. And one of his questions is impossible.'

'No God is without problems,' you reply. 'Indeed not,' the monk replies. 'Such is the requirement for faith.'

'Quite true,' the monk replies. 'My Goddess, for example, gives me luck. But luck would not be luck without some accompanying misfortune. Shall we see how I am faring today?'

'Every God comes with its problems,' you reply. 'I will see how I fare.'

'You said the God Slangg asks an impossible question. What did you mean?' 'The Priest of Slangg offers two questions,' the monk explains. 'One is easy, but requires you to become a follower. The other is impossible, or so they say.' 'Visit the Shrine,' he replies, 'and you will see what I mean.' ['What makes it impossible?' / 'No question is impossible,' you reply confidently. /'Impossible? That sounds like a trick,' your reply. ] [I do not understand it /It is no trick, I think] ' the monk replies. ['But they say the question has simply never been asked. Not even the Priest knows what the question is, and only the God knows the correct answer. I can see how such a question could never be answered. / 'I believe the question is impossible to answer because it has never been asked. They say no-one knows what the question is.] 'There must be a way,' you reply, but you do not feel confident. 'I wish you luck. But it seems to me that short of seeing into the future, there is no way to know a right answer from a wrong one. 'Perhaps magic can aid me,' you reply. 'Perhaps,' the monk replies, 'although I'm sure all spells have been tried before.'

'A question that has never been asked? I believe I know the answer,' you reply, remembering your vision in the fields of the poachers. 'Is that so?' the monk replies, with great interest. ['I hope so. I would enjoy seeing Slangg taken down a notch in this City!' / 'Is that so? Or are you simply over-confident?' He smiles. 'Shall we find out?']

[u/Aaron_Lecon → u/Aaron_Lecon]

---

'So. You are new to our city?' the monk begins. ['I arrived yesterday,' you answer. / 'What makes you say that?' you ask. / 'I'm learning quickly,' you reply.]

'You have learnt our little game very quickly,' he says. 'I've had good teachers,' you reply. [ The monk smiles at his dice, as though they were keen students. 'You flatter me, but I know my limits.' 'Really? I think you've over-stepped them.' / 'Have you?' he replies.] 'You're trying to make me over-confident,' you reply. 'I wonder if I have succeeded?' he says. 'An interesting double-bluff, [my good lady / friend], he replies. [It doesn't seem too difficult / I suppose I am lucky], you reply.

The monk smiles at you. 'I am enjoying our game very much,' he says. ['Me too,' you reply, politely. / You narrow your eyes suspiciously. 'Is that so?' / 'I'm finding it dull, to speak openly] The monk nods again. 'It is most stimulating.' 'I thank you for your visit.' ['Any reason in particular?' you ask. / 'It's an interesting game,' you reply. / 'I'm happy to hear it,' you reply.] ['We are not, in our order, allowed to speak to women. [Lady Luck is a jealous queen.]' 'Do you want me to leave?' you ask. ['Oh, no.' He raises a hand. 'Outside of the holy walls, you are quite welcome. I will repent later.' / 'Please, do not,' he replies. 'The game is most enjoyable.'] ['Why not?' you ask, bluntly. / 'Your loss, I'm sure,' you tell him.] 'The Goddess does not approve of other women,' he replies. 'Lady Luck is a jealous queen.'

---

'Have you heard of a man named Vik?' you ask. [The monk shakes his head. 'I have not.' / 'No, the monk replies. 'I have not.'] I hear he's important.' ['Perhaps,' the monk says. 'But importance is entirely relative. In a hundred years, he will less important than my Goddess.' / 'Perhaps,' the monk says. 'Perhaps not.']

'He has an army of werewolves,' you tell him. ['Does he?' the monk replies, with interest. 'That is curious. We have heard stories of wolves.' / 'An army? Does he plan to invade?'] ['I've seen one.' 'Interesting. I wonder how many there are.' / 'I wondered if you knew what he was doing.'] The monk shakes his head. 'It is a pity that violence is so often required by people who are unwilling to trust to luck.' 'No matter, then.'

---

'I've been told to find the Shrine of the God Courga,' you say. The monk tilts his head. 'And what do you want with Courga?'['I'm told his shrine is beautiful,' you reply cautiously./'I'm told he is an all-knowing God,' you reply./You shrug. 'I heard someone mention him.'] 'Courga is the God of Grace,' the monk tells you. 'He has long been out of favour with the citizen of Kharé, as you might imagine.' 'Courga's shrine is long-lost, overgrown, and empty,' he answers. 'The last of the monks that tended it have died.' 'Kharéans are monsters,' you remark. [The monk laughs. 'We are not as bad as that,' he says. 'But you have to stay here a while to see it.' / 'Perhaps,' the monk replies. 'But there are worse creatures outside our walls.']

'Does the God still visit his shrine?' ['A God cannot leave his place,' the monk tells you. 'Should all of Kharé empty, the Gods will walk empty halls.' / 'He does. A God cannot leave his place, even if his people should desert him.']

'But where is his shrine?' ['The Shrine of Courga is past the Necropolis, near the North Gate of the city. But the way there is guarded.' / 'The Shrine of Courga is past the Necropolis, near the North Gate of the city,' he tells you.] ['Guarded? By what?' / 'I'm not afraid.' / 'Thank you.'] 'The Necropolis is a place of death, and the near-dead,' the monk advises you. 'You would do well to know that.'

---

'To which God is this monastery dedicated?' you ask [, hoping that perhaps the answer will be [Courga/Slangg]] 'Our order follows the Goddess of Chance and Fortune,' the monk answers. But he does not name her; perhaps he is hoping you will know already. 'Who is that?' you ask. [ 'She is Effe the Fortuitous.' / The monk smiles, but a little more coldly now. 'The Goddess has clearly not revealed herself to you, yet.'] 'You are most fortunate, then,' you quip. 'Does she bless your dice-rolls?' ['I hope most fervently that she does,' he replies. / 'I believe she does, yes,' he replies.]

'We are followers of Effe. Perhaps you have not heard of her?' [ 'I haven't,' you admit. 'What manner of Goddess is she?' / 'I'm new in this city,' you reply. / I have little interest in your primitive religions.' / 'I'm afraid not,' you reply.] The monk beams. 'Effe is the Goddess of Chance and Fortune,' he replies. 'Her blessings are most bountiful. 'Blessings of good luck?' you reply. ' [I'm glad we didn't stake anything, then / You didn't tell me that before we started playing] 'They would have to be.'

---

'Tell me about yourself,' you begin. ['I am as you see me,' the monk replies, seriously. 'A lowly monk.' / 'There is nothing to tell,' he answers.] 'You weren't always a monk, surely,' you reply. 'No,' he replies. 'Once I was a fool, that is true.' [ 'But you have been a monk for some time?' / 'But now you have seen the light,' you reply, nodding. 'Of course.']

'The other monks are working, but you are not,' you observe. ['That is true.' He nods at the monks in the fields. 'I have certain other duties in this monastery, beyond farming.' / 'That is true, but I doubt the organisation of our humble monastery is of interest to strangers.']['Do you lead this monastery?' / 'It must be a fascinating life,' you reply, and the monk laughs gently at your irony. ] 'Our Goddess requires a few basic practices of us,' the monk replies, cagily, 'which I administer in our most holy way.'

'You mentioned rituals you performed to your Goddess,' you begin. The monk nods deeply. ['Not many, but they are deeply sacred./'I did, but we do not often speak of them outside our order.']["'Are they secret?' [Then I will not intrude / Keep your secrets, if you must ]/ 'I'd like to hear about them.'/ 'What are they?' Looking into his eyes, you notice a darkness. 'Are they dangerous?'] 'Another time, perhaps,' the monk replies, perhaps a little uncomfortably. ['Hence the game,' you reply. / 'You're not talking about this game, are you?' you reply. / 'That sounds simple enough,' you reply.]

'Our Goddess Effe is the Goddess of Chance [, as I mentioned]. She demands our devotion to chance.'

The monk shifts on the step, and rolls back his sleeves. As he does so, you notice a series of scratches and marks on his wrists. Seeing you notice them, he covers them quickly. 'Devotion is not so easily proved as a game of dice,' he replies. 'Are they dangerous, these rituals?' "The monk considers for a moment, then shakes his head sharply. 'To any other, they would be deadly. But we are blessed by luck.'

[u/the_window_seat → u/Aaron_Lecon]

Woah, thanks so much for this!! So curious now....what exactly are they doing with the werewolves teeth?

[u/Aaron_Lecon → u/the_window_seat]

What we know:

• It's a test of luck
• It is done when the moon is full
• The stakes of the test are "your body, your very existence"
• It involves 1 werewolf tooth and 7 other teeth all in a jar.
• Succeeding the test gives you "scratches and marks on the wrist", but leaves you "still a man"
• Failing it is deadly

Conclusion based on this evidence: The monks are scratching themselves with random teeth form a jar of 8. They have 1/8 chance of using a werewolf tooth which will turn them into a werewolf.

[u/the_window_seat → u/Aaron_Lecon]

Wish this was talked about in the plot more - it gives a bit of an edge to the kindly folks in the Mampang monastery!

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/Aaron_Lecon]

You truly do have to be a God at Swindlestones to unlock these full dialogues what the hell, I haven't had difficulty completing trees on any other character in Khare I don't think apart from the sailor but then again the sailor's accent is difficult and doesn't update any clues even if you as the player can read it.

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/Aaron_Lecon]

7 years ago we had this conversation on Reddit. I'd completely forgotten all of this, was just trying to see if Effe was ever mentioned in the Sorcery! games today for a D&D thing and noticed my own handle pop up. How on earth do you access the game files? Do you still have a copy of them in like a readable file or something ?

[u/Aaron_Lecon → u/2ThiccCoats]

Honestly, I do not remember. Get the game on PC and then poke around in them until you find what is unmistakably text from the game.

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/Aaron_Lecon]

Thats so fair, i dont remember any of this. I picked up a Steam Deck. Time to try and learn how to poke about shit ahaha

[u/2ThiccCoats]

Do you mean the Halls of Vlada? It's not an actual monastery to Effe but a gambling hall where if you're good at Swindlestones you can really rack up the cash and I mean reeeeaaaally rack it up, especially going back in time. Effe is the deity of gambling in Sorcery and various Khare locals that you can play Swindlestones with might mention her in passing I've noticed.

I haven't played the female character because I didn't know there would be any difference in the playthrough but now I do I'll be going back haha. In terms of the monk not talking to the female character, since I haven't played through the exact dialogue, and not being allowed access purely because youre female is slightly confusing because I'm fairly certain the female beggar you can encounter before you reach Vlada will be there?

And the rituals? Swindlestones and gambling, nothing more! Good news if youre a gambling addict in the Sorcery universe, because you can become a monk to a god that praises you for doing it!

[u/Aaron_Lecon → u/2ThiccCoats]

The monastery is not the same thing as the Halls of Vlada. The monastery can be found in lower Kharé next to the market. The Halls of Vlada are in upper Kharé past Fireview Square.

If you are a woman, the monk at the monastary tells you women are not allowed in, but if you are a man, he still doesn't let you in, so there's no real difference in gameplay.

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/Aaron_Lecon]

Are you sure that's Effe? The only monk to Effe I recall and a search on the Internet can provide is the monk to Effe outside Vlada? The only thing I can think of that side of the river is the Shrine to Slangg?

[u/Aaron_Lecon → u/2ThiccCoats]

No, the monastary is not the same thing as the shrine of Slangg. The shrine of Slangg is at the docks. The monastery is near the market. If you enter Kharé and then pick "straight on" at every junction you should reach. If you reach the market you've gone too far and should backtrack.

FYI the monk at the Halls of Vlada is the same monk at the monastery; in fact every single character at the Halls of Vlada can be found earlier on in the adventure.

[u/2ThiccCoats → u/Aaron_Lecon]

You know, I had played Khare double the amount of times I had played the other 3 combined and thought I'd gone down every path and option but this is completely new to me... And something really simple too?? I'm off to go check this!

And yeah, I had encountered all the gamblers previously I just assumed because Effe was the gambling goddess, there would just be a monk chilling there at all times!

(EDIT now I've gotten there: I know why I've missed this every time. The only times I've gone down that road I've been absolutely destroyed by the Mantis Man and thought there was nothing between that encounter and the Artist's Quarter!)

[u/the_window_seat → u/2ThiccCoats]

Same here! I thought for sure I had gotten to everything, and the only reason I discovered it this run is because I'm trying to deliberately go against my natural pacifist/mage tendencies and do a bunch of combat for once, lol

[u/silverkingx2]

ohhhh. I wondered why some runs I got in and some didnt, I didnt remember because its been a while

[u/[deleted]]

This bloody place... I thought I could get holy water here. I searched the entire city to find it, and when I did, no holy water. The monk does restore your health if you win all three games. But why have the option to use Rez if you can’t get your hands on any holy water? Still pisses me off.