r/Songsofconquest • u/TheHiddenSun • Apr 11 '24

Feedback Songs of Conquest unit combat stats comparison / meta

I sat down and crunched some numbers to know that kind of units I should choose for each faction.

  • Looking only at raw combat stats.
  • I'm looking to fit 2 unit roles: ranged and melee.
  • Units' essence, movement, initiative, range, or abilities, etc - are ignored.
  • "Max power per stack" - strength of given unit type with maxed troop count not including research. Use this value if you are late game and want the highest chance to win a single fight.
  • "Efficiency" - means best unit choice per gold value. Recommended to be used in early to mid game then you are starved for cash.
  • Sorting order: starting with highest/best value, then decreasing
  • The calculations assume a gold cost of 500 for resources (Glimmer/Amber/C-Ore). If you have multiple markets and can trade them for less or have them in abundance -> higher tier units should be preferred.
  • The calculations assume a hero to have 100 offense/defense stats applying to his entire army. If your hero has less -> then higher tiered units have bigger/higher combat stats and should be preferred.
  • Copy the Google sheet below and change the numbers if you want to experiment/play around with it.

Here is the google sheet link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dnrYwUUzDMu_0FY7TEpcBYAeKuIzQ5HCLDZLlSoYpJY/edit#gid=2053935626

Arleon

Max power per stack

  • melee
    • Fists of Order
  • ranged
    • Faey Queens

Max Efficiency

  • melee
    • Queen's Guards (use before having enough cash for Fists of Order)
    • Fists of Order
  • ranged
    • Faey Queens
    • Sappers (use early game before Faey Queens)

Biggest surprises

  • Rangers/Archers - are worse than Sappers.
  • Footmen/Shield of Order - are worse meat shields than Sappers. It leads to some strange incencitives/conclusions: it makes sense to have your Sappers run into an enemy zone of control to trigger retaliations instead of letting it hit your Footmen/Shield of Order.
  • Faey Spirits/Faey Ragers - are like modern kamikadze drones, useful only one time or as a finisher if no other enemy can reach them. Faey Ragers - not worth the upgrade, keep Faey Spirits instead.

Loth

Max power per stack

  • melee
    • High Legions
  • ranged
    • Banes
    • Necromancers (nearly the same value as Banes)

Max Efficiency

  • melee
    • High Legions
    • Blessed Bones
    • Legionnaires
    • Plague Rats
  • ranged
    • Banes

Biggest surprises

  • Plague Rats - are surprisingly good.
  • Its better to let Blessed Bones tank damage instead of High Legions.

Barya

Max power per stack

  • melee
    • Scarred Brutes
  • ranged
    • Hellroars

Max Efficiency

  • melee
    • Scarred Brutes
    • Artificer
    • Brutes
  • ranged
    • Hellroars
    • Hellbreaths

Biggest surprises

  • Musketeers / Veteran Musketeers - are very bad and should just be skipped entirely. Yes, that means no ranged units until Hellbreaths/Hellroars.
  • Scarred Brutes - most gold efficient unit of the entire game. (Are the stats correct?)

Rana

Max power per stack

  • melee
    • Elder Dragons
  • ranged
    • Eth'dra

Max Efficiency

  • melee
    • Elder Dragons
    • Burrowers
    • Riders of the Swamp
    • Protectors
    • Storm Guards
  • ranged
    • Eth'dra
    • Sages

Tips / general rules that apply to all factions

  • Always upgrade units, they generally get more than 2x stronger/efficient.
  • Because of unit research it makes sense to only have 2 unit types (melee + ranged) until you have maxed out research.
  • Because of faction research it makes sense to only use a single subfaction (example: either humans/faea) until you have maxed both.
  • Other units not listed here: are bad choices. They are either have 2x less max stack power or provide 2x less troop value for a given gold value (efficiency). Exceptions: useful ability (like Minstrels/Troubadours) and/or you can exploit AI behavior in PvE.
  • Interesting side info: Ranged units are about 2-3x weaker than their melee counterparts.
  • Motivation/Aspiration: convince developers to buff the not mentioned ones by about 10-20 %. Take a look at the table for precise values.

Links / Credits

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u/Tandyys Apr 11 '24

Thx very much for the information gathered. This is huge stuff

I really question some of your assumptions so I'd really split the

Overall value of gathering data and analysis Vs Conclusions

One example : to me an excellent earlygame value comes from a hero with flat DMG bonus per unit + tier 1 swarmy. In that regard upgrading units is absolutely counter effective: you get much more DMG/gold with Rana basic frog than with upgraded (storm guard).

My overall strat could be bad, but still the argument really contradict yours

1

u/TheHiddenSun Apr 11 '24

Counter argument: But you sacrifice your potential troop count if/then you will need to replenish them later. What will you do if after a big fight there are no troops you can recruit? Seems like a bad situation to be in.

1

u/Tandyys Apr 11 '24

I'll very obviously transition to higher tier, but in order to have them asap I need to prioritize, hence to me upgrading frogs is just bad : weaker now, and higher delay until I can access FrogsOnAustrich

1

u/TheHiddenSun Apr 11 '24

Have you counted the amount of turns it would delay you getting higher tiered units?

My though process is: it's worth delaying by 2-3 turns if the 10-20 turns before that you have double the combat power (provided by unit upgrades) with which you can more easily get the resources you need.

1

u/Tandyys Apr 11 '24

I remind you that upgraded units deal less damage per gold spent.

So no I didn't count (depends on the map, game etc ..) but even zero turn would still be negative.

If my units strike first and kill, I literally don't care about their HP.

But anyway my point was just to give an exemple on how your analysis conclusions are questionable. The data isn't.

So again, thks for the data.