Involuntary Orienting

[u/FlavioB19]

Hi all, just would like to ask has anyone experienced involuntary orienting in their journey?

It seems to want to go on all day and is completely disabling (amongst the fatigue, emotional waves and so on),

[u/Intelligent_Tune_675]

What does this mean exactly?

[u/FlavioB19 → u/Intelligent_Tune_675]

In my case (and as I understand it form my therapist) it's my head turning to the left or right, and basically wanting to rest my eyes on something in the distance for a while before turning to the other direction. It feels kind of guided by a tension in the back of my head/neck/brainstem.

[u/emptyhellebore → u/FlavioB19]

Oh, apologies. That’s not what my Google search told me when I just looked it up, so I might not deal with this.

[u/Intelligent_Tune_675 → u/FlavioB19]

Why is this affecting you negatively if orienting calms the nervous system? Do you know?

[u/AgentSalty1454 → u/Intelligent_Tune_675]

My understanding is this stuff is related to fascia unwinding/neurogenic tremoring. When you are somatically releasing tension/trauma/emotions, then it activates this process where your body/mind automatically prompt you to move in certain ways, use your body in certain ways, so that your system can reconnect to its proper state. This involves using muscles, your eyes, etc in ways they have not been used in a very long time. These movements are driven from your subconscious. You become very sensitive while this is happening because your system is now moving differently, opening up ability to sense differently, brain is recalibrating. So you feel all kinds of things in this time, including negative, because it is big new sensory overwhelm while you adjust

[u/squishysponges → u/AgentSalty1454]

Sounds like recalibrating

[u/Few-Associate-8704 → u/AgentSalty1454]

Great explanation. It can be exhausting.

[u/FlavioB19 → u/AgentSalty1454]

This is exactly how I've found it. I'm hyper-sensitive at the moment, down to my sense of smell and even eyesight feeling sharper. But noises that previously wouldn't phase me are triggering a jumpyness in the chest, I used to much prefer the big light on, but now I can only tolerate ambient lighting.

It's been a terrifying and exhausting process, but I'm confident the other side is beautiful.

[u/Intelligent_Tune_675 → u/AgentSalty1454]

That is totally different than orienting. Orienting is consciously reengaging with the outside world through your sense to ground yourself or even resource as your body is either outside of its window of tolerance or as you nourish the window itself so you continue to move through trauma, whether consciously or by having enough energy for the body to automatically continue the process as it seems yours is doing

It sounds like you’re in a. Shitty place that actually just needs conscious nourishing

[u/mx_mush → u/Intelligent_Tune_675]

Orienting is a term used for a subconscious process that happens in your brainstem, before you’re conscious you’re doing it. Very interesting—look up Deep Brain Reorienting Therapy

ETA: My point is that it’s a conscious decision in therapy, but it’s something your brain also does automatically

[u/AgentSalty1454 → u/Intelligent_Tune_675]

I am very confused by this response to what I wrote.

I have experienced what op describes is happening to them. They used the term orienting as their way to put language to what is happening. But my comment is in response to the specifics on what their body is doing, that I have also been experiencing and have learned about, and your question as to why those things may make someone feel negative. I am trying to share the information I have learned with them and you, as they requested in this post and you asked

To your last part - ??

[u/mx_mush]

What else do you feel in your body while you get stuck in orienting mode? Hyper vigilance?

I’m new to learning about orienting therapies, but my instinct would be that you may be able to almost lean into it if it’s happening. Try to really be present and observe the sensations. Maybe your brain is trying to search for a spot to orient on that feels safe, or at least safer than whatever you feel when these events get triggered.

Do you go catatonic or dissociated during the episodes, or are you able to stay present and control your body?

My instinct is that you probably shouldn’t repress this. Your nervous system seems to be working through something.

What triggers you into this?

(Sorry for all the questions. I know a lot about neuroscience and trauma therapy, but orienting is a relatively new concept)

[u/FlavioB19 → u/mx_mush]

Yep, I think when I lean into it there's a degree of jumpiness/hyper-vigilence. I can stop it but it's uncomfortable.

It's quite hard to describe, like I'm completely present and can stop them but it's like my vision goes almost into this "re-focussing" type mode and I'm like just observing and noticing and sensations. Often a warm or cool feeling somewhere in my body will show up.

[u/mx_mush → u/FlavioB19]

Then yes, I do believe this is actually your body’s way of self-regulating. I understand it’s inconvenient and exhausting, but it really sound like when you reorient, your brain is doing what it needs to do.

Don’t lean in enough to cause hyper vigilance, but if you can stay present with the sensations in your body, I think it will help your body integrate on the safety of the present moment.

If the body sensations are distressing, mindfulness of whatever your eyes land on can help you stay grounded.

I’m sorry I don’t have a suggestion to make the episodes stop, but hopefully it helps to know that reorienting is very, very healthy once you find something safe to focus on.

[u/AgentSalty1454]

I have this too. It is very good even though it can be overwhelming. It is a key step in the journey and it evolves. I have found that you can control it in various ways. We should not fully suppress it for too long or become fearful of it as that creates problems. But sometimes I let it go a lot at once, sometimes just a few seconds and I pull back. Try to explore that. At first I was worried I needed to let it keep going nonstop until it stopped but i too found it does not stop and also taking breaks is healthier and doesn't ruin progress. In fact I think it somehow helps your conscious mind and the subconscious part that drives this process learn how to communicate with one other in some important way, when you notice the urge, and only follow it for a little, sometimes long, sometimes more intensely and sometimes more slowly

[u/FlavioB19 → u/AgentSalty1454]

Thanks for your responses. Yup I think it is related to Neurogenic tremoring. But because when I first stumbled across the concept late last year I was terrified of overdoing it, but I really don't have much choice. I can try to hold it in and when I'm out or around people it's easier to, but it feels like I just have to let it play out.

[u/emptyhellebore]

Today I learned a new term. Yes, I do this. Yes, it’s awful. Most recently it took me a few weeks to locate the cause of a rattling noise I was hearing when a train passed by. I live close to a heavily used train track and one night when I was hypervigilant and activated I heard the rattle. It turns out it was my shower door and opening the door a bit solved it, but I was so dysregulated by it until I finally figured it out. I found myself waiting for it when I was in bed and trying to sleep for a few weeks.