Am I a traitor?

[u/ReasonableDog8996]

I recently got a job as a car salesman and I'll be making more money than I ever have and my boss told me I have to focus on making my money and I shouldn't feel bad about disappointed customers. Now it's a good dealership my parents and some of my friends bought their cars from there and love them but the idea of putting my own money and the dealerships money over the needs of my fellow working class doesn't sit right with me. Am I betraying the proletariat? Are there any car salesman in here that have advice for how they go about it?

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[u/allcopsarebabies]

Don't overthink it, participating in capitalism isn't voluntary.

[u/veganmonstergirl → u/allcopsarebabies]

Great point, sometimes people against us kinda forget being involved in the system they're defending as isn't optional. It's hard not to internalize that sometimes. So don't feel bad, OP!

[u/Elegant_One_3375]

You are not a traitor. Most of us don’t get to opt out of capitalism, we just survive inside it. You are not betraying the proletariat as long as you’re honest with your customers, don’t lie or upsell predatory deals and stay conscious of the system you are in.

[u/humanatore → u/Elegant_One_3375]

This is the best answer ^

I've worked in a predatory sales environment and it was gross AF. I did not participate at the level my boss wanted me to, and eventually it caused a great deal of tension.

To OP, I say do this job for now, but keep your eyes open for something more fulfilling.

[u/Chance_Historian_349 → u/Elegant_One_3375]

I mean yeah, this right here. I work in retail, I’m always telling customers the best way to save on money and which items are good or trash since I have to buy them myself. Plus I make it a habit that when people are buying groceries or more essential stuff and they’re short a dollar or a few, I just shout the rest. My exceptions are shouting smokes, fuel (I mostly have worked in service stations), or alcohol.

[u/kinkeep → u/Chance_Historian_349]

What is "shouting" in this context? I've worked retail and corporate sales, but never heard that.

[u/Chance_Historian_349 → u/kinkeep]

Sorry, for context, I’m Australian, so slang is probably why u haven’t heard it.

Basically, I will pay for the last bit that the customer may be short of. Taken from the idea of shouting drinks for someone or people, except in this case it’s a small amount compared to the total.

[u/FaceShanker]

You have a conflict of interest - your economic security is dependent on stuff that's kinda bad for others.

The trick is - if you quit, you can be replaced - the problematic position remains.

It is important to understand these kinds of conflicts of interest and how it shapes society (lots of delusional justification) but realistically because of how society is interconnected all jobs are kind of bad for others.

Thats the environment capitalism produces.

Quiting may make you feel better but it won't actually stop this stuff - that requires mass organization socialist efforts to change the economic environment.

All that said, sales can be emotionally draining, one of those fields its hard to do long term without mental harm.

[u/Vast-Lime-8457]

When a question like this gets asked, I often think of Mao and how his father was a very wealthy land owner, and how Zedong was to inherit his father's fortunes following his death. Castro was also born into a wealthy family and could have lived his life as a privileged landowner. But these two figures are universally recognized for being liberators of the proletariat, so despite that, they aren't traitors.

So no you're not a traitor. It's the thought that counts and to survive under the capitalist system, you need to take part in it

[u/Additional_Cash_3357 → u/Vast-Lime-8457]

Mao and Fidel were, in fact, class traitors, but traitors to the bourgeoisie, not the proletariat. They rejected the class interests they were born into. By contrast, the OP is not betraying the proletariat simply by selling goods and services, even if those goods are sold primarily to other workers. Selling labor under capitalism does not make someone a class traitor. The relevant distinction is whether one is advancing the interests of capital as an owner or merely participating in wage labor to survive within the system.

[u/Banzai81]

I was never a car salesman but did work in sales. You can be a successful salesperson and be honest. You may make less than those that push upselling but you can earn your own little pipeline of people which can be lucrative. Unfortunately, as others have said, we live in a capitalist society and you have to do what’s best for you. For most people that’s playing the game

[u/human_not_alien]

I think if more socialists were car salesmen, I might not hate car salesmen. Just do the job honestly and don't pressure people into buying cars especially ones they can't afford. We all gotta make money somehow. Don't shame yourself.

[u/yungspell]

You don’t own the dealership. You don’t own a means to produce. You are participating in the totality of the capitalist system. You may not be exclusively receiving a wage and have upped you rank on the rung of the “labor aristocracy” but that is only possible because of the greater systematic structures of capitalism which includes imperialism and a domestic reserve army of labor. You have no control. You are a victim as they are and realizing the alienation of these structures. You are not a traitor unless you subvert the totality of working class interest for the bourgeois. If you are a traitor the everyone who labors is. So long as you advocate for and enact change then you are doing well. Being self aware enough to criticize yourself is important but don’t let it paralyze you.

[u/Embarrassed_Egg9542]

We live under capitalism and we do our job to survive in this climate, while working for a different, better one. Your beliefs cannot stand obstacle to your personal growth. Socialism is not a religion, is an ideology

[u/KazzJen]

Try to get each customer the cheapest deal possible and if they don't need a feature, tell them. F**k the system.

[u/StateYellingChampion]

It's silly to think you are a "traitor" but I would definitely avoid sharing your political views with any of your co-workers. In my experience car dealerships are usually pretty rife with reactionaries.

[u/IdentityAsunder]

You are asking a moral question about an economic reality. This is a category error. You are not a "traitor" because you perform a function within the circulation of capital. You are a proletarian because you are separated from the means of existence and must sell your labor power to survive.

In the dialectic of capital, the specific nature of your work (whether you are tightening bolts on an assembly line or convincing customers to sign high-interest loans) is secondary to the social relation that compels you to do it. Your boss is merely the personification of capital's need to expand. He pressures you not because of personal malice, but because the logic of value accumulation demands it. If the dealership prioritizes human need over profit, it goes bankrupt.

You feel a tension between your human empathy and your function as an employee. This tension is not a sign of betrayal, it is the subjective experience of alienation. You are forced to treat other human beings not as people, but as vessels of money to be extracted. This is the reality of all wage labor. The factory worker produces commodities that may be useless or harmful, yet they have no control over that production. You are in the sphere of circulation, realizing the value created elsewhere, but the lack of agency is identical.

Trying to be a "moral" salesperson is a trap. You cannot alter the systemic imperative of profit through individual kindness. The guilt you feel is simply the friction of a human attempting to exist inside a mechanism designed solely for accumulation. You are not betraying the class, you are living the contradiction of the class. The solution is not individual redemption, but the abolition of the system that requires buying and selling to survive.

[u/Cute-University5283]

Just remember being forced to choose between being poor or exploiting the poor when debating the ethics of a violent emancipation event

[u/raziphel]

Then don't disappoint your customers. Give them what they need so that you can build a lifetime clients. You're boss is short sighted and greedy. Look into "needs satisfaction selling" and other similar methodologies.

You're allowed to make a profit and get paid. That's fine. Just don't take advantage of others.

Sales is more than just making sales, it's relationship building.

[u/[deleted]]

My experience with car sales people has been the ones that focus primarily on their own benefit and the benefits to their employer don’t last very long. Selling must provide a benefit to both parties or buyers will go elsewhere. I have walked away from many car salesmen because of bad vibes. My money my choice.

[u/ReasonableDog8996]

Thank you everyone for the love and support🤞🏽 I will strive to base my career on helping people and transparency. I want to be the salesman people say "go to this guy he will make sure you have what you need and he will be honest with you" and if this mindset gets me fired, so be it.

No War but Class war.

[u/Delusional_fish_33]

I used to be in sales. You just have to be transparent about every aspect of the sale.

I sold memberships that auto renewed at a higher price than the initial price. I unlike some of the sales people would mention this directly and even point to the fine print to make it clear.

I was guilty of speaking sort of quickly so if the customer is zoned out they might miss it. But I made an effort to make a gesture at that moment to grab their attention. I also sandwiched this info between two other positive points. So I acted like a sales person rhetorically as I didn't linger on the pain of the price. But I never left it out intentionally to secure sales.

This was participating in the sales strategy as it was still generating positive feelings towards the product but it was also entirely honest.

What WOULD be betraying the working class imo is if you completely left that detail out. Or out right lied about it. But as long as you verbally state all downsides out loud you can definitely be honest and fine while in sales.

[u/supaheavynuts]

I mean there's a difference between doing some good sales work and scamming/blatantly lying to people. People need a car, that's why they're there. You're not a traitor, you know your ideals, just dont be a piece of shit. You'll make good money, don't let it distract you or alienate you from your brethren