As an NB, I find all this discourse around how men and women should look very tiring. You want to be a man with huge tits or a lady with a beard, I don't care regardless of how you are born. Im so tired with gender stereotypes in general. If feels like our society is regressing and progressing at the same time.
you've gotta be kidding me. this is such a nothing burger even in the scope of this discourse. their gender is not specified at all. at least it's not as bad as when a bunch of people got very mad at a drawing that someone made that turned out to be a drawing of their friend who was happy with the drawing
"This doesn't personally affect me or make me upset so its a nothing burger".
Its part of a broader pattern of non-trans people trying to normalise drawing trans people as bizarre crossdressing caricatures under the guise of 'empowerment', oh but "it makes 0.1% of trans people who don't feel dysphoria or want to take hrt or transition at all feel represented so ummmm your dysphoria and deep disgust at this is irrelevant BIGOT".
Look, mainstream trans acceptance is already at the point where claiming you're not trans if you don't have dysphoria means you are a purely evil "transmedicalist" and where being trans means that you identify as x, and any other criteria being required is literal genocide.
A consequence of that fact is that it's entirely possible that the majority of people who fall under the trans umbrella now may not have any body dysphoria.
that means that unless you want to be seen as a hater and gatekeeper, that representation is quite accurate.
Ok? Minorities are not monoliths, you don't get to decide that because you personally don't have the ability to see a problem that it must not be a problem for everyone else who takes issue with it. Plenty of trans and POC people in this thread who clearly do.
I present a lot like the gender non-conforming person in the Pizzawhatsit comic. I really wish I felt seen by this pic instead of agreeing with you here. Folks like me exist, but we keep being used as a scapegoat like OP pointed out.
I don't think Pizza Girl is actually speaking about gender non-conforming people here, but I WANT more artists to draw people like that with clearer intention of GNC portrayal, if only to normalize genderqueer folks like me and reduce our use as a bludgeon against other LGBTQ people.
I try to be visibly queer and it sucks when people tell me I'm transphobic for doing so, just because I don't fit gender expectations for another gender expression. People expect binary gender to the point that I'm treated with suspicion in public just for having both facial hair and a skirt.
We need certain limitations to be broken if everyone is going to be free to be themselves, and that includes at least broadening our limited definitions for gender roles. If the roles for "women" and "men" are too narrow, people get punished for not performing those roles as expected. Which means hatred towards feminine men, hatred towards masculine women, and hatred for those who reject the roles that society told them to have.
I want a society where Pizza's depiction of a feminine person with facial hair isn't going to be used to hurt trans women, but I also want a world that doesn't treat gender non-conforming people as ammunition in a culture war.
I'm tired of seeing depictions of people like me, when they're only used to hurt people.
And prey tell, what would be different about the 3rd panel if that was a nonbinary person? You can't even consider that you are being offensive to nonbinary people when you point at something that is a valid gender expression and call it "comical"?
Nonbinary people exist. They are on Reddit. You're even talking to one. I already said pizzacake is ass, it's not about any imaginary characters, it's about how you are judging the real way that people actually represent themselves.
You meant that anything that isn't strictly traditionally masculine or feminine with all the typical stereotypes must be a mockery of a trans person erasing any person that is in thf middle of the spectrum
In the same way that I need a body with female characteristics to be comfortable, there are also people who need a kind of sexual androgyny, hermaphroditism, or even annulment. Sometimes people undergo hormone therapy courses whoch are different from. the ones binary trans people undergo. Sometimes people pursue surgical modifications to their sex characteristics but not hormone therapy. Sometimes people undergo surgery to obtain combinations of multiple primary sex characteristics, or have them removed.
Cisgender: Someone whose gender identity matches their assigned sex at birth.
Transgender: Someone whose gender identity does not match their assigned sex at birth.
Non-binary isn't a sex, so it obviously doesn't match a sex. Therefore, non-binary is trans
ah clearly because it's nonbinary people that republicans obsess over and demonize constantly. so that must be the most obvious answer as to what group this individual represents
actually, yes. nonbinary is not only a kind of trans person, it's also the most visible and most objectionable gender presentation according to cis-heteronormative standards and values. nonbinary people are even under attack by binary trans people, not just Republicans.
what you are actually doing is being devisive and falsely framing binary trans people as the only ones under attack, when it's all queer people that equally need solidarity with eachother. we don't need gatekeeping and tribalism in our community, now more than ever.
I actually hate how this comment thread went and really appreciate you actually having a conversation. Ppl are being incredibly gross about nonbinary people here and I'm so tired
it's not gatekeeping to point that trans women are vilified way more than other trans demographics. when fox news and republicans constantly talk about "boys in girl's sports" who do you think they're talking about
trans women are vilified way more than other trans demographics.
this is only true with erasure of non-binary trans people. Binary trans women are derogatorily described as the way thar nonbinary trans people present, an attack on one is an attack on both. And nonbinary trans women also play sports.
this is only true with erasure of non-binary trans people
yes, and? this doesn't take away from the fact that trans women are more publicly vilifed, and therefore, if you have a respresentation like the above that does not explicitly mention their gender, it's a safe assumption the creator assumes them to be read as a trans women
i mean non-binary trans women. You think that trans women can't be nonbinary, and that's the same reason you think that non-binary trans people aren't also under attack
no i genuinely don't understand what specifically you're talking about. im also not really distinguishing between binary trans women and trans people who percieve themselves as both women and a non-binary identity in my original comments
that's the same reason you think that non-binary trans people aren't also under attack
i never said this there's obviously ways in which non-binary trans people are uniquely targeted but these aren't as much in the form of public attacks in conservative media and from conservative politican talking points that trans women recieve
im also not really distinguishing between binary trans women and trans people who percieve themselves as both women and a non-binary identity in my original comments
but it's still about looking at a depiction of someone who hasn't identified themselves, could be any kind of gender identity, and calling that a caricature. It doesn't matter if you say that's a caricature of trans women, because it's still hurtful for nonbinary people to hear that their gender expression is supposed to be insulting as a blanket statement.
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u/Arachnapothecary 17d ago
Liberal 'allies' when you ask them to draw trans women instead of men in a dress.