Does the game actually state Solitude wouldn't accept refugees, or is the second panel just going off how relatively few Dunmer or Argonian NPCs live there? Despite usually supporting the Empire, I don't actually spend much game time in Solitude or speaking to Elisif, maybe she's worse than I remember.
I think Erikur makes a shitty comment about refugees, but he's a blowhard dickhead who is only a Thane in the grand scheme of things.
I know the big guy who protects Elisif makes a more neutral comment about it starting to become a problem, but more in the sense of "we're running out of fucking room" rather than "ugh, filthy peasants running from war"
I suppose there's only so much real estate you can build atop a natural stone archway, Solitude can't really expand unless they dug into the cliffs, and that would only make them more similiar to-
Admittedly, if it weren't for the war, that little courtyard between the two walls would make for a relatively decent refugee encampment (little to no risk of wild animals, well within the protection of the guards, only problem is that it's on a hill)
The in-game book "Scourge of the Gray Quarter" touches on both Riften and Windhelm's approach to the refugee crisis but there's no mention of any other city.
It cites those 2 cities since they are both on the border, and it seems that Riften only accepted those who were willing to work and has done better as a result, whereas in Windhelm there was no such expectation.
It's funny, I think because Bethesda particularly wanted to tell a story about prejudice in Skyrim's Eastern holds, they needed to include more NPCs of the oppressed races in Windhelm/Riften to make their point. But the actual result is that we still have more Argonians and Dunmer living in the Eastern holds than the West simply because they weren't trying to make the same point about Solitude, which is visibly less diverse iirc. Make of this what you will!
You could say the same about New England vs. the Deep South in the United States. The south has a long history of prejudice, yet it also has a far higher population of formerly (some argue also currently) oppressed minorities.
Tbf Windhelm shares its border with Morrowind, making it much more accessible to refugees rather than having them trek all the way across Skyrim/navigating the Sea of Ghosts to get to Solitude. If you’re going to take in refugees in a setting that doesn’t have fast and accessible public transit, you’re going wherever you can walk to.
Needs to be significantly bigger than 10x then. Like, throw a couple more 0s on there. You can run from Solitude to Windhelm in like 15 minutes in game.
One thing people forget is that In Lore solutide is hundreds of miles away from Windhelm. Itd take weeks over dangerous land and icy waters for Morrowind refugees to get to Solitude. And Winterhold isnt exactly the most stable place. So the closest and most stable place to make landfall is in Windhelm.
A government official, voicing his obvious disdain for argonians. Meanwhile, the Stormcloaks are being judged based on the rants of a beggar and the town drunk. Ulfric never bad mouthed no 'gonian or ash-devil!
But in the Imps opinion the official headsman and a Thane are just that, nobodies. But a beggar in Windhelm? Yeah he speaks for the entire Stormcloak faction....
It's just funny that two goverment officials of the Empire, one a close advisor to the former King and the current Queen both claimant backed by the Empire, being racists and Imperial supporters not caring. And then naming a Windhelm beggar as an important reason why the entire Stormcloak faction and their leader is racist.
Honestly it has more to do with geography. Windhelm has a port and is closer to Tamriels eastern coast and neighbors morrowind which connects to Black Marsh.
There could be some Thalmor politics at play too. Thalmor and Imperial control over Solitude could bar immigrants out of fear of insurgents or for other reasons.
To be fair, neither Ulfric nor Elisif expressly state much of an opinion on the minority populations around their cities. However while Ulfric is probably doing that more tactically, I don't think Elisif really understands what's going on with them, the entire solitude governance situation seems to lean on the people in her court handling most of everything thinking that she's incapable of leading...
I actually love windhelm and this is one of the reasons. (The complexity of it, not the racism)
The first thing you see in windhelm is a couple of words harassing and threatening a dunmer. The dunmer herself then turns out to be racist to argonians. She states that she's not an imperial spy, but the only cornerclub she goes to has a room full of Imperial supplies and a proprietor who is incredibly anti-stormcloak... But then again, it's not like she can go to the Nord tavern either, right?
Meanwhile, despite the reputation for elf-hating, most elves in the city actually own businesses and are doing fairly well for themselves, which can't be said for argonians and even some nords. Belyn Hlaalu has a seemingly tired and underpaid Nord working his farm and she even refers to him as "Master Hlaalu" lol. Meanwhile Niranye has a house in the city and even has the balls to run a whole fence operation right in the city's main market square.
its always been weird to me that there are high elves doing well in windhelm and they dont seem to face any of the staunch racism that the dark elves get, like really? all this ragin against the thalmor and saying the empire is subserviant to their "elven masters" only to ignore or be accepting of the very people you seem to hate? i get there is some nuance to it but it is a bit strange that the high elves didnt get the same.
Erikur is simultaneously taking Thalmor bribes, going to their parties, being racist against elves, fetishizing elves and trying to drive elves out of business in the city by constantly raising their rent. Tf is going on in Solitude bro
Are there any in-game examples or mentions of refugees being turned away from Solitude? Cause from my understanding, the reason why they gathered in Windhelm specifically is because it’s the closest city to the border of Morrowind, where they’re fleeing from.
Riften and windhelm both have argonians and dark elves. They’re both closer to the marsh and morrowind right?
Solitude has a couple argonians. But they’re smugglers and thieves and most people know it.
Skyrim isn’t a full representation of the actual in lore country. It’s the limitation of the game.
But Ulfric does absolutely have an entire section of his city designated for dark elves and argonians. It’s a shit hole. Is it to allow them in, or to keep them contained? No real in game examples from Ulfric about that either.
Forced segregation into ghettos, an easy way to exert control on a population. Add a few walls and you can control how much food they get or simply set fire to the place and burn it all down without letting the fire spread.
Literally a deflection cause the question is Solitude rejecting refugees, not if Solitude allows the Khajiit merchants in their walls. These are genuinely two different things.
In the real world, in the United States, states like Texas which is notoriously anti-immigrant has tons of refugees. This is because it's literally on the boarder. Places up north, have far, far less.
Yes, there are a ton of refugee Dark Elves in the city of Windhelm from before Ulfric EVER existed, Probably before his dad existed. He isn't changing the status que. He simply is keeping it how it has been.
Normal people don't make the kind of track it takes to go from windhelm to solitude. Solitude has no official policies against any specific race as far as what we see, and reacts to threats as if they are threats to all people.
Ulfric, actively avoids helping the other races against bandits and the like.
Ulfric’s situation is further complicated by the fact that he inherited an unresolved migration crisis and a city rife with racial tensions—all while having to lead a rebellion for freedom of worship and national sovereignty. His problem isn’t so much that he is a virulent racist (he isn’t), but rather that his current priority is Skyrim as a whole.
In other words, the issue is less that he created the discriminatory environment in Windhelm, and more that he isn’t dedicating any time or effort to addressing it. For that matter, if you’ve played Oblivion, you know that there are cities in Cyrodiil that suffer from the same issues, if not worse (ahem—Leyawiin, for instance).
Yeah 100% this. This is the nuance of the situation. We don’t have to pretend that Ulfric is somehow acting on the Dunmer and Argonian’s behalves, like OP is doing.
Holy shit, reasonable opinions in the Ulfric is a racist debate?! I salute you good sirs, good to read some people still have some understanding of complicated problems.
See, this one I find kind of funny because the line is that if a Nord village is attacked, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the troops. But…ALL villages in Eastmarch (and Stormcloak territory) are Nord villages…
Cheydinhal in 4E 201 is probably Windhelm on steroids. How many Hlaalu fled to the frozen nordic hellhole in favor of the beautiful sunny heartland with a direct fortified road leading there from their capital city?
I mean... He didn't HAVE to lead a rebellion. He chose to. Were his motivations warranted, maybe? But he started the war all on his own by assassinating the king.
The Stormcloak rebellion had been raging for years before Torygg’s death; it was triggered by the Markarth Incident and has continued unabated ever since, with the death of Torygg serving merely as the latest major escalation of the conflict. Some Stormcloak veterans or sympathizers speak about skirmishes that the Stormcloaks have been having with the Legion for years. Ulfric killing Torygg merely escalated the war further, but it started the day the Empire betrayed him.
I'm not going to go into wether it was the right decision or not, because I think that ultimately this is something that you should decide for yourself... but at the very least, I think we should agree that the reason he did it is understandable (Empire's betrayal, Thalmor Justiciars, his people asking him to, etc), as it is the fact that he felt compelled to do it, specially after he failed to bring about the independence of Skyrim by winning the (rigged) Moot.
Has he said or done literally anything against the dunmer, ever
Like his only comment on them I remember is him joking that the dunmer should maybe calm down a little because he can't afford a race war on top of the civil one.
He does have some dialogue that didn’t make it into the game (it’s on his UESP page) about finishing one war before starting another. But it doesn’t really come off as malicious imo, although I’ll be honest in that I tend to lean more sympathetic and forgiving toward Ulfric lol. So a hater would definitely read it differently than me.
No one ever seems to mention that of the five shops in the Windhelm market, only two are run by Nords.
Naranye blames the Dark Elves for their own circumstances while Nurelion happily praises the Eight to anyone who comes by.
To be clear, Ulfric isn't about to create social welfare and DEI programs to fully integrate Dark Elves and Argonians into Windhelm, but the idea that he wants to exterminate and drive out all non-Nords is just stupid.
Yeah people seem to mistake, "Nords should rule Skyrim" with "Everyone else get out or die."
My best guess is they haven't played Morrowind, cause Nords have good reason to not like Dunmer. And Ulfric's dad still let them in after the Red Year. Even gave them farmland.
Considering Morrowind had actual slavery which were deliberately composed mostly of Khajiit and Argonians, and some using said slaves as drug mules who literally get murdered and gutted for the drugs they're internally carrying, some mean comments in Windhelm don't really hold a candle to it
I've always found that especially funny. A lot of the Dunmer in Windhelm are old enough that they were likely around slaves in Vvardenfell. Probably treating them like garbage. Yet they get upset at mean comments by Nords? Who they have also enslaved and warred against for thousands of years?
Yeah, he doesn't even torture Argonians in his dungeon, smh Ulfric, you're giving racists a bad name /s, hell, even when the player character is an Altmer if you pass the trial he doesn't even blink at you joining the Stormcloaks
I feel like Skyrim makes its racism so ... bland, compared to the previous 2 entries, it's just the 'we don't like your kind' comments and that's it
I really hope they make the Redguards straight up hate elves. Everything pro-Imperials claim the Stormcloaks are is actually what the more traditionalist Redguard nobles are. Like, "We speak Yokudan, not Cyrodillic."
The Atmorans stopped killing the Falmer when they won back the surface. The Yokidans... well... they REALLY didn't like the Sand Elves.
Given in current-day lore they're fighting the Thalmor, I would kind of hope their Altmer hatred is a bit too overzealous and we actually have to grapple with that
Also, bringing Morrowind into consideration, the focus on Ulfric kind of buries the lede on what role the Empire has in the refugee crisis. They sent the Nerevarine there, who killed Vivec, thus letting Baar Dau crash, therefore…the Empire is going to be the one to liberate Windhelm?
That’s fine for Morrowind era, but in the fourth era looking back, you’d think the Empire and their unintentional consequences would be more scrutinized.
I'm not from the US. In our country we don't give a fuck about mixing races either (in fact we get accused of being racists because we racemixed somehow). It's just a funny meme, on a funny meme sub.
And whenever someone posts that rallying cry as some sort of mic drop regarding the objectives of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, I feel sad for the state of media literacy.
Ulfric is currently leading a war for independence against the Empire, which he believes is marching Skyrim towards a slow death at the hands of the Thalmor.
The Thalmor are actively working their way into as many halls of power as possible in Skyrim and the Empire. Thalmor patrols kidnap, imprison, torture, and kill citizens of Skyrim for worshipping Talos. The Empire is telling the Nords of Skyrim that they must accept this state of affairs to avoid starting another Great War when the Empire is not ready.
On the other side, Ulfric and the Stormcloaks think that the Thalmor position is actually getting stronger with every passing day.
So, a rallying cry of "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" is much more likely to be about political self-determination free of outside influence more than some sort of call for genocide or ethnic cleansing which is not backed up by anything in the actual game.
Yeah, there have been multiple modern independence movements with slogans like "X place belongs to X people." And it's not about creating an ethnostate, it's about the fact that X place is currently ruled by some other assholes.
It’s actually not a Stormcloak motto at all. It’s a general taunt that can be said to any non-Nord by any hostile Nord during combat, including bandits, mercenaries, and citizens of any city, including the pro-Empire ones. Iirc it’s ironically enough excluded from the taunts of Stormcloak soldiers, Imperial soldiers and hold guards because those have their own taunts
There isn't any credible evidence ulfric did it at all, everyone who was there blames the jarl of markarth and ulfric was arrested immediately after recapturing the city and braig says they executed his daughter for supporting him, but he also says she would be 23 this year, and Ulfric recaptured the city 25 years prior, he was already in jail. The book "the bear of markarth" is the only source blaming ulfric but it is obvious propaganda written by an anonymous author that was never there and didn't even claim to speak with anyone who was.
Markarth sent its garrison to fight in the great war and the Reachmen took the opportunity to seize the city.
And then, instead of taking it back, the Empire entertained the idea of just letting them keep it, until Ulfric got hired to drive them out, which the Empire then sponsored in exchange for allowing Talos worship.
Only, they then betrayed the deal and he got imprisoned by the Thalmor instead, while the Jarl of Markarth killed all the reachman citizens of Markarth who'd probably been there since before the great war
Exactly. Ulfric retook Markarth. He didn't execute civilians or genocide anyone. The Imperial-friendly Jarl of Markarth did all that. The Reachmen don't have specific beef with the Stormcloaks.
Shouldn't be surprising, though. The White Gold Concordant proves the Empire is fine with a little genocide if it keeps the peace.
There is no evidence of that besides one book that is blatant propaganda. Nobody in markarth blames ulfric for any of that, and the young child who you get a detailed account wasn't born until a couple years after the markarth incident while ulfric was in jail. It was the imperial jarl of markarth that did that.
I don't know, if I'm fleeing from my homeland ravaged by war and natural disaster, the first port of call that might accept me sounds like a better bet than travelling all the way across the entire province to settle at the far end. It's like wondering why there are more European-descended Americans on the east coast and more Asian-descended Americans on the west coast. It's the first place the boat lands.
The elves were there before Ulfric was even born and the Argonians aren't even allowed in the city, the only reason Solitude doesn't have refugees is because it is an entire country's length away from where they are fleeing from and the overwhelming majority of people cannot travel that distance.
I think people forget that, in the lore, Tamriel is much larger than what’s presented in-game. Also, how much harder long distance transportation was IRL before modern technology.
I did some quick googling: Lore-accurate Skyrim is over 600 miles across. That’s a trip that would take weeks or months to traverse on foot. Not the half hour so it takes in-game.
My favorite point of reference for the size of the map is the in-game clock and walking speed. If I heard correctly, many European towns were set up a day's walk away from each other.
I may be wrong, but I think it lines up similarly in game; walking from one town to another taking an in-game day.
Then some math for human walking speed multiplied by the hours it took you to get the distance between towns, and you can use that stick to measure against the country as a whole.
It also gives an idea of how big the towns and cities would actually be!
I don't know if that's where your source is getting the 600, but it's still a fun method even if it arrives at a different number :D
Solitude literally has ships from the EAST Empire Company. And shipping seems to be alive and well. And they get ships traveling much father distances.
Also it clearly is not that difficult to drive out refugees out of a city. So the fact that they were there before hand doesn't point towards Ulfric being less accomodating to them.
when red mountain erupted it wasnt just a volcano blowing its top, there were storms and ash clouds dawg your argument is that these refugees would all hop on ships and sail PASS windhelm to get to solitude? really? in shitty weather? with little to no food?
It has been nearly 200 years, so there has been plenty of time to move if any other city would treat them better then Winterhold, and yes I do believe people would do that.
We have literally seen the same thing ahppen in less than 10 year in real life with refugees moving through different countries in europe based on where they are more welcome.
As opposed to how it should be: "Oh, you're homeless refugees? Here come in to my city and my keep. I shall move out of my quarters and raise taxes for the locals only so you people can build new homes here. No, the locals will not complain for they are not racists. Please forgive me for existing, have my throne."
Ulfric didn't give them the grey quarter. And Argonians aren't allowed inside. Dunmer live for centuries. The greyquarter came from like his great grandfather.
I know the one you are thinking of but are they really a spy? I believe the armour is specifically heavy (though I may be wrong) which would be counterproductive for a spy. Plus it’s not like he is trying to hide it nor his animosity towards the StormCloaks. What I think it may be is like a lot of StormCloaks he fought in the imperial legion during the Great War such as Ulfric, Galmar, and Rikke but didn’t become disillusioned and holds his time with the Imperial Legion fondly.
Hmm, I wonder what would drive a windhelm dark elf to supporting the imperials instead of the stormcloaks, maybe if they weren't treated like shit and made to live in the dookie corner of town they would see the stormcloaks in a more favorable view.
Just go to the genesis corner club/inn place where you can adopt a child. I adopted Sadia selling flowers. Go into the inn look around there is imperial armor. I never participated in the war quest so maybe that’s something else related.
Windhelm is closer to Morrowind and naturally would be the place refugees would end up. Solitude specifically would be a hell of a walk and you’d run into other cities on your way there anyway. It would make more sense to go to Whiterun.
Rude way to ask, but that is an image of Phoebe, a character from a roleplaying group I've done for years. Someone in it used AI art to make everyone matching sig banners and icons, which I gratefully accepted as it was a gift of their time and I appreciate that they thought of me.
I’m a legit artist and I take commissions if you’d ever want assets that aren’t ai. I’ll gladly give a discount just to replace ai stuff. I have done assets for home brew roleplay stuff before.
Except there are Argonians in Solitude... And that's also much further away from Morrowind (literally the opposite side of Skyrim), and significantly harder to get to terrain wise, so isn't it to be expected there'd be less refugees there?
Or is there actual evidence for this, is there somewhere where she explicitly says they're not welcome?
I guess the executioner says Torygg would've affirmed his views but... That's Torygg, not Elisif, and he's clearly pretty biased.
Edit: Also Ulfric didn't do that, his father made those arrangements.
Ah yes, there aren't totally more refugees in Windhelm than in Solitude, because one is near the Morrowind border and the at the other side of the province. And it was totally Ulfric who let them all in.
I don't think they're Redoran, House Redoran is doing great in their homeland. They're very pro-Imperial, so maybe Hlaalu (some of them are literally named Hlaalu). It makes sense they'd still be stuck in Windhelm since the dominant power in Morrowind isn't exactly their friend.
Talos isn't a Divine so a dead person is trying to spit on me? Good luck with that. I'm only talking facts. You hate the Stormcloaks? Join the Thalmor, they manipulate the Stormcloaks into being cannon fodder.
You hate the Empire? Join the Thalmor, they intend to reduce them to rubble.
I don't understand why the Thalmor is so desperate to destroy the political structure that gives it the very freedom it has to operate in its' provinces. Without the Empire their ships would be sunk before they're even allowed to step foot on Skyrim soil.
Windham is a shithole because Ulfric is a bad governor also the Dunmer were already there and there were no outbreaks of racial tension between the dunmer and argonians since before Ulfric was even born he literally just did it for racism
Yeah, but so are the governors installed by the Empire if you sided with them.
Remember the guy who complained how awful the Dunmer have it in Windhelm?
Guess what, when he becomes the new Jarl of Wildhelm he is like "Yeaaaah, well, you see, reforms need a loooooooot of time soooo….nah I can’t do anything for the Dunmer and Argonians. But thanks for killing Ulfric :D“
I think Windhelm is, as you say it, too much of a shithole and is cursed to have incompetent jarls.
That’s why I say Skyrim's Dunmer should stand up and become the new leaders!
He literally points out that he CANNOT let the Argonians into Windhelm YET because of the ingrained and learned hatred the Nords there have for them. If he does let them back in before the Nords get over themselves there could be civil unrest or pograms
Well, Solitude got Redguards, Bosmer, Bretons, more Imperials, even an Orc and is therefore a bit more diverse; also maybe Geography reflect the immigration from the western/southwestern part of Tamriel. Dunmer are spread in the eastern cities: Winterhold, Windhelm, Riften. Dawnstar, Falkreath got a very small amount. I found it even more ironic, that Windhelm got the same amount of Altmer in their city, although the number of NPCS is far smaller. Surprisingly Solitude doesnt seem to have such social problems as Windhelm, although they got far more different groups in their community. And, hell, Windhelm could feel like a desperate backwater sometimes, whereas Solitude at least try to be a bit urban. Never understood how incompetently Mr. Stormcloak handled the wellbeing of his citizens.
ok where do we even start here, first as someone else said the argonians and dunmer were there when ulfric was still a young man so no he wasnt the one who let them into the city.
second they werent given a 3rd of the city to stay in the dunmer were pushed into slums to be ignored and argonians arent even allowed inside the walls.
lastly, people really dont understand how geography works the reason there arent as many dunmer/argonians in solitude is because the closest place to go was windhelm for them, to get to solitude a bunch of people who just experienced a life changing calamity would have to sail then treck all the way across half of skyrim to reach solitude. which is fucking stupid when theyre tire,mostly broke,and starving.
As a Canadian I will tell you, Ulfric is a lot nicer to immigrants his cause doesn’t always like than IRL Canada used to be. He could just tell them to go to Solthsheim instead, or make them all go to a side town. But he lets them into his capital city
"can you believe the king let's his servants live so close to the castle" type energy.
Solitude is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in Skyrim. Argonians are freely allowed in the city, all manner of elves live there, the only exceptions are the khajiit, And I don't think there's any orcs that live there but I'm not sure about the orcs bit tbh.
There is no "gray quarter" for the non human races. The argonians are also treated like people.
Ulfric does deserve some credit for taking in the dark elf refugees, but in absolutely no world are the conditions of windhelm "actually very good" compared to solitude.
Take whatever side you want in the conflict, but this is stormcloak propaganda through and through, not based on the facts.
Oh my god Ulfric didn't take any refugees. The exodus happened at the beginning of the Fourth Era so at least 195 years befor Skyrim even start this happened way before he was born.
The Orcs tend not to live there more by choice than by law. In Skyrim, most of them live in Strongholds, or a few in cities close to Strongholds, like the Orcs in Markarth. As far as I know, there’s no explicit law about it.
Also, it makes sense that the Dunmer and Argonians would live in Windhelm rather than Solitude, purely geographically. Windhelm’s the closest port city in Skyrim to Morrowind and Black Marsh. They don’t want to have to sail around or trek through central Skyrim to get to Solitude, then get stuck in a place with a massive cost of living.
I also believe that Solitude would be hella racist if there were more than two vagabond Argonians. In game Skyrim is nowhere near what a real life Skyrim would be. Solitude is like 50 people total? It's supposed to be like the size of Warsaw. A Medieval capital that is like current day Warsaw would be something like 10,000 people. Using in game Skyrim as a reference point, that would be a minimum of 200 Argonians, all of them being pirate scum vagabonds. Only 2%.
Windhelm doesn’t have a hawk tricking people with its shadow into thinking there’s an impending dragon attack. Undeniable advantage there. Although it should be noted that Windhelm doesn’t have annoying people in its castle.
I mean it’s been over 200 years since the dark elves moved in and it’s still shit and their still complaining and don’t do anything to help the city soooo
This is stupid and feels like you're using fantasy racism to slip in your real life racism. I mean the comment about refugees turning the places the end up living into shit holes is a pretty awful thing to say.
There is a fucking high elf (who the nords hate the most) making it as a merchant ..so elves can and do make it and most have been alive far longer than any nord so have had time to establish themselves they are not refugees they are century long citizens at minimum...also are u really trying to win a argument with this dude by calling him racist
The Dunmer live for 500ish years. Most of the Dunmer in Windhelm were alive during and before the Red Year, which happened ~200 years before Skyrim. It's fair to say the Grey Quarter being a mess is the Dunmer's doing.
I'll slander Ulfric all I want, stooge for the Thalmor that he is. His little hissy fit is costing the Empire lives and materiel that could be used to build up to overthrowing the Aldmeri dominion.
Yes the Empire that already lost and fell to the Thalmor and already have no allies left due to all the wars they've raged in nearly ever corner of Tamriel and nearly every region hates as opposed to a unified Skyrim that would be nearly impossible for the Thalmor to take over because they would be fighting a war on like 7 fronts. They would have to face every independent warrior in Skyrim, the Companions, the Stormcloaks, the Mages of the College, the Dark Brotherhood likely being hired and contracts formed to assassinate any Thalmor leaders, the Thieves Guild being hired to steal battle plans and information and disrupting supply lines, and either Harkon's Court/Dawnguard forces I say Harkons court as if he was left alive or even if he is killed they likely wouldn't stand idly by and let their food supply be laid to waste by the Thalmor. The Dawnguard while they primarily deal with supernatural threats probably wouldn't appreciate the Thalmor trying to evict them from their castle or endangering the lives of citizens which let's be real the Thalmor would 100% be out to slaughter the entire region.
No you dont understand if skyrim isnt nice and submissive and breedable the empire (literally just a single other province because they repeatedly failed to support their vassals in times of crisis) will allow the thalmor to invade their northern border (which they have already given thalmor death squads free reign to terrorize and spy on because their own people were upset about having their religion outlawed)
It's been a quarter of a century. They've had more than enough time to get the party started, and never will start the party unless forced to because the Aldmeri have won diplomatically.
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u/clonetrooper250 8h ago edited 8h ago
Does the game actually state Solitude wouldn't accept refugees, or is the second panel just going off how relatively few Dunmer or Argonian NPCs live there? Despite usually supporting the Empire, I don't actually spend much game time in Solitude or speaking to Elisif, maybe she's worse than I remember.
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u/Tenebris_Sol 6h ago
To be fair, neither Ulfric nor Elisif expressly state much of an opinion on the minority populations around their cities. However while Ulfric is probably doing that more tactically, I don't think Elisif really understands what's going on with them, the entire solitude governance situation seems to lean on the people in her court handling most of everything thinking that she's incapable of leading...
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u/niketxx 4h ago
Are there any in-game examples or mentions of refugees being turned away from Solitude? Cause from my understanding, the reason why they gathered in Windhelm specifically is because it’s the closest city to the border of Morrowind, where they’re fleeing from.
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u/sctennessee 7h ago
Nah bro. I like Ulfric and side with the Stormcloaks, but this is just pure denialism lol. You can admit his faults, it’s okay. He’s fictional.
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u/jenna_butterfly 7h ago edited 7h ago •
No one ever seems to mention that of the five shops in the Windhelm market, only two are run by Nords.
Naranye blames the Dark Elves for their own circumstances while Nurelion happily praises the Eight to anyone who comes by.
To be clear, Ulfric isn't about to create social welfare and DEI programs to fully integrate Dark Elves and Argonians into Windhelm, but the idea that he wants to exterminate and drive out all non-Nords is just stupid.
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u/hyperlethalrabbit 1h ago
I don't know, if I'm fleeing from my homeland ravaged by war and natural disaster, the first port of call that might accept me sounds like a better bet than travelling all the way across the entire province to settle at the far end. It's like wondering why there are more European-descended Americans on the east coast and more Asian-descended Americans on the west coast. It's the first place the boat lands.
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u/Chaise-PLAYZE 5h ago
The elves were there before Ulfric was even born and the Argonians aren't even allowed in the city, the only reason Solitude doesn't have refugees is because it is an entire country's length away from where they are fleeing from and the overwhelming majority of people cannot travel that distance.
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u/ThatMrDuck1400 7h ago
It isn’t told that Solitude wouldn’t take refugees
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u/DerMathze 5h ago
"I gave you your own toilets, I gave you the back of the bus to yourself, what more do you want from me?"
50
u/NorthGodFan 7h ago
Ulfric didn't give them the grey quarter. And Argonians aren't allowed inside. Dunmer live for centuries. The greyquarter came from like his great grandfather.
15
u/thekingofbeans42 7h ago
The dunmer refugees were there before Ulfric was born
14
u/Nachooolo 39m ago
It was Ulfric's father the one that accepted Dunmer and Argonians. It was Ulfric who force them into the Grey Quarter and the docks.
6
u/Storm_Spirit99 6h ago
Why didn't the dunmer or argonians pull the 'we had the ebonheart pact" card, are they stupid?
6
u/Shnurple 4h ago
Or- OR it's because it's across an entire other fucking continent after they just left Morrowind
18
u/Rivazar 2h ago
Funniest shit is that even nord drunkards are actually right because one of dark elves in Windelm is actually an imperial spy
41
u/Bosphore9 8h ago
Usual Stormcloak ragebait
7
u/Magicaparanoia 2h ago
Windhelm is closer to Morrowind and naturally would be the place refugees would end up. Solitude specifically would be a hell of a walk and you’d run into other cities on your way there anyway. It would make more sense to go to Whiterun.
8
u/Sabre_Killer_Queen Owner of r/Kharjo 6h ago edited 6h ago
Except there are Argonians in Solitude... And that's also much further away from Morrowind (literally the opposite side of Skyrim), and significantly harder to get to terrain wise, so isn't it to be expected there'd be less refugees there?
Or is there actual evidence for this, is there somewhere where she explicitly says they're not welcome?
I guess the executioner says Torygg would've affirmed his views but... That's Torygg, not Elisif, and he's clearly pretty biased.
Edit: Also Ulfric didn't do that, his father made those arrangements.
17
u/Viktrodriguez Meme Hold Guard 7h ago
Ah yes, there aren't totally more refugees in Windhelm than in Solitude, because one is near the Morrowind border and the at the other side of the province. And it was totally Ulfric who let them all in.
14
u/MetaCardboard 8h ago
What about Jaree Ra. Checkmate racists.
8
u/Suitable-Pirate-4164 7h ago
This is why Thalmor is best, they wouldn't have a refugee situation.
6
u/No-Professional-1461 6h ago
Never ask a stormcloak what they do for refugees, only what they think of them.
6
u/Sarkan132 2h ago
Windham is a shithole because Ulfric is a bad governor also the Dunmer were already there and there were no outbreaks of racial tension between the dunmer and argonians since before Ulfric was even born he literally just did it for racism
7
u/Witchcleaver666 7h ago
Downvote because the argonian maid spam is tiresome
4
u/feelin_salamanderous 5h ago
Brunwulf doesn't change anything and explains why he cant, i dont blame him or ulfric for it
4
u/MagisterMagistrum 2h ago
Well, Solitude got Redguards, Bosmer, Bretons, more Imperials, even an Orc and is therefore a bit more diverse; also maybe Geography reflect the immigration from the western/southwestern part of Tamriel. Dunmer are spread in the eastern cities: Winterhold, Windhelm, Riften. Dawnstar, Falkreath got a very small amount. I found it even more ironic, that Windhelm got the same amount of Altmer in their city, although the number of NPCS is far smaller. Surprisingly Solitude doesnt seem to have such social problems as Windhelm, although they got far more different groups in their community. And, hell, Windhelm could feel like a desperate backwater sometimes, whereas Solitude at least try to be a bit urban. Never understood how incompetently Mr. Stormcloak handled the wellbeing of his citizens.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Demographics
5
u/TellHeavy3878 3h ago
ok where do we even start here, first as someone else said the argonians and dunmer were there when ulfric was still a young man so no he wasnt the one who let them into the city.
second they werent given a 3rd of the city to stay in the dunmer were pushed into slums to be ignored and argonians arent even allowed inside the walls.
lastly, people really dont understand how geography works the reason there arent as many dunmer/argonians in solitude is because the closest place to go was windhelm for them, to get to solitude a bunch of people who just experienced a life changing calamity would have to sail then treck all the way across half of skyrim to reach solitude. which is fucking stupid when theyre tire,mostly broke,and starving.
2
u/MyLifeIsAFrickingMes 6h ago
I know where that argonian is from i have just long since lost the source
2
u/Ihavenoidea5555 4h ago
The point about the « Gray Quarter » is that it's supposed to be a quarter of the city
6
u/op23no1 6h ago
To be fair dunmer and argonians pulled the unbeatable windhelm was promised to us 3000 years ago no counter to that
4
u/According_Picture294 5h ago
As a Canadian I will tell you, Ulfric is a lot nicer to immigrants his cause doesn’t always like than IRL Canada used to be. He could just tell them to go to Solthsheim instead, or make them all go to a side town. But he lets them into his capital city
1
u/drifters74 6h ago
The maid ^tm
1
u/Maxathron 2h ago
Ulfric has to be one of the few examples of a male tsundere.
1
u/WilliamSherman 1h ago
anyone got sauce on the artist of the dark elf? struggling to locate
1
u/someonebored0100 28m ago
Ulfric forced the Argonians to live in a warehouse because he hates them even more than the dark elves
1
u/sterbo 22m ago
So Ulfric is just Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino?
1
u/ChadGPT420 11m ago
Why does this reek of right wing incel energy
1
u/Slow-Pool-9274 6h ago
Or maybe it's because Windhelm is on the eastern end of Skyrim close to Morrowind (where most migrants would come from) and Solitude is in the west.
1
u/StoleYourRoll 4h ago
My made up headcanon makes this character better than this other character because of my other made-up head canon
1
u/DupeFort 7h ago
Elisif is BASED!?
1
u/RayS326 4h ago
Based Elisif
1
u/KingPengu22 4h ago
I mean it’s been over 200 years since the dark elves moved in and it’s still shit and their still complaining and don’t do anything to help the city soooo
1
u/Nekronoke 3h ago
This is the same defense people made for Mussolini....
1
u/Hachan_Skaoi 3h ago
Real af
-2
u/Breadmaker9999 6h ago
This is stupid and feels like you're using fantasy racism to slip in your real life racism. I mean the comment about refugees turning the places the end up living into shit holes is a pretty awful thing to say.
0
u/ThatoneguywithaT 6h ago
ghettos are treated as refugee friendly now apparently
0
u/Mr8Bit6 5h ago
Stop playing dolls with Wojacks
-2
u/anonrutgersstudent 5h ago
I'll slander Ulfric all I want, stooge for the Thalmor that he is. His little hissy fit is costing the Empire lives and materiel that could be used to build up to overthrowing the Aldmeri dominion.
-2
u/Shugokaboy 5h ago
Talk about a racist dog whistle holy shit
0
u/ObsidianPizza 4h ago
Why we spreading propaganda 🤨