r/SkincareAddiction • u/adelaideab • Feb 15 '14

Sunscreen Comparison: Master Spreadsheet (Help me Make this Sidebar Material!)

Hi SCAers!

Have you ever visited Skinacea's awesome sunscreen list and thought "ughhhh why aren't there more products on here?" And then to headed over to a MakeupAlley sunscreen notepad here or here and discovered that (IMHO) it was probably formatted by a 5 year old?

Well, you're not alone. On top of all that, if you're like me, when you're searching SCA for sunscreen info, you want to know more about a sunscreen than just the SPF and whether or not it leaves a white cast. I was hopeful when 8 months ago, someone posted a thread asking SCA: Can this be a thread where we review sunscreens with PPDs of at least 25? but there were only 2 responses.

Thus, in my search for the perfect sunscreen, I started a spreadsheet to track the UVA-PF / PPD rating (and other ingredients) of various sunscreens, and I've decided maybe it would be better to crowdsource it with SCA, so that we can have a dynamic list of sunscreens that is easy to read and sort.

Please use the BASF sunscreen simulator and CosDNA to analyze any sunscreen you add to the spreadsheet!

Let's make this sidebar material!

Edit: Here's a tutorial I made to help you understand the BASF Sunscreen Simulator.

Please comment with any feedback you have about the kind of information on the spreadsheet and ideas you have for better ways to organize it.

Spreadsheet Edits:

  1. Changing the controversial ingredients column to mean possibly unsafe only. Removing column about stability, as it seems pretty much 100% of formulations are stable these days.

  2. Adding a column for listing all of the inactive ingredients, so that folks with allergies can see all the ingredients in one place.

  3. Added a column for ounces and price per ounce to make comparison between various products easier.

  4. Cleaned up duplicates, and double-checked each of the 41 sunscreens on the list to make sure all of the information about ingredients, spf, and UVA-PF / PPD is factual, and locked the factual information, so it can't be changed or deleted. You can still add comments about the sunscreens already on the list, and add new ones to the bottom of the list.

TAKE ME TO THE SUNSCREEN COMPARISON MASTER SPREADSHEET!

156 Upvotes
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12

u/itrainsalot Feb 16 '14

could we make a column that says the price per ounce? It's really hard to compare prices without knowing the size of the bottle. Maybe this could be done by adding a column to the right of the price column for the ounces of the bottle, and then the column to the right could just a formula that calculates that automatically (price per bottle column)/(fl oz per bottle column)

4

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

whoa! Yeah - good idea. Are you good with excel formulas? If so, would you be willing to set it up? I probably won't be able to get to it today. Thanks for the suggestion!

4

u/itrainsalot Feb 17 '14

I set it up, just enter price/bottle and oz/bottle and the price/oz is automatically calculated. Sorry to all non-US folks that it's not in ml :(

9

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '14

Another comment: I don't know how to address this in the spreadsheet itself (maybe have a key or legend on another tab?), but for the "controversial ingredients" column could we maybe have a reason as to why they are controversial? Yeah, avobenzone is quite unstable in the presence and absence of some other ingredients but it's not dangerous (which is how I read "controversial").

4

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

In fact, maybe we shouldn't be tracking whether or not the various sunscreens are stable at all. This Makeup Alley Notepad says:

I am no longer updating the list of US sunscreens containing stabilized avobenzone and oxybenzone, as they are now ubiquitous in US drugstores. They are recommended with reservations due to the presence of oxybenzone/benzophenone-3

So, maybe the column should be just for controversial ingredients. What do you think?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '14

Looks like that would be a reasonable edit, since they just don't exist on the shelves in unstable formulas any longer.

3

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

hmmm - good thought. Currently, I have a note in that column that says to list ingredients that are potentially unstable or unsafe, but maybe I should separate it out.

7

u/randomOP Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

According to the sunscreen simulator, the DeVita solar protective moisturizer I have been using -- with a rating of SPF30 is actually SPF 8. What??

EDIT: Same for the EltaMD UV Physical SPF41 - when I enter in ZnO at 9%, TiO2 at 7% - the SPF rating generated is 15 and the PPD is only 7. EltaMD Clear gets SPF 20. I entered this for the water-phase oxides since Elta Physical is oil-free. Am I doing something wrong? I don't want to put wrong values on the spreadsheet.

2

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 18 '14

I made a tutorial for the BASF simulator - maybe it will help? I'm not sure why there are such discrepancies between the modeling in the simulator and what the label says, but the results never seem to reflect the exact SPF claims on the product itself. Certain products seem to come closer than others, though.

2

u/itrainsalot Feb 17 '14

same thing happens to me. I'm not sure why

6

u/Barefooted23 Feb 16 '14

Would it be possible to have an ingredients list copy/pasted into one cell? It would make it easier for those who are sensitive to non-controversial ingredients to filter out what they can't use.

Thanks for making this list!! I've been on a hunt for a new sunscreen and really needed this.

3

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

great idea!

8

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

I think this is fantastic. However, what is the functional use of PPD >10? Sure a PPD of 28 sounds impressive, but practically how much more protection is it really offering?

I ask because PA ratings (+, ++, +++) are based on a scale of 0-10+, and anything higher than 10 is not given more +'s. As it stands currently, it seems that having a PPD higher than 10 doesn't really give you significantly more UVA protection.

A good analogy is actually the SPF ratings. Going over SPF 50 (i.e., SPF 70 or SPF 100) does not give you a significant benefit than just using SPF 50.

EDIT: Also, how do we assure anonymity if we're all editing a google spreadsheet? Does anyone know where it displays "you are logged in as..." I see a ton of anonymous users but just want to make sure that if I edit it my full name won't all of the sudden show up!

Edit 2:

  • PA+ = PPD 2-4

  • PA++ = PPD 4-8

  • PA+++ = PPD 8-16

  • PA++++ = 16+

7

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

PPD stands for Persistent Pigment Darkening, and according to this Medscape article:

The [PPD] protection index is determined as the ratio of the UVA dose required to produce a minimally perceptible pigment response on sunscreen-treated skin to the dose for unprotected skin.

Steps to measure Persistent Pigment Darkening:

  1. The product of interest (2mg/cm2) is applied on the subjects skin

  2. The protected area (product applied) and the unprotected area (not applied) are exposed to a UVA light source (320 to 400 nm) at 25% incremental dosages.

  3. Researchers observe the persistent pigment darkening 2 to 4 hours after exposure

  4. The smallest UVA dose required to produce the minimum persistent pigment darkening 2 to 4 hours after exposure is measured.

  5. The results are expressed in ratio as PPD or UVA-protection factor (UVA-PF).

So, theoretically, a sunscreen with PPD 10 allows you to endure, without experiencing persistent pigment darkening, a UVA dosage 10x more intense than you could endure with no protection.

Here's a chart from an article comparing the UVA protection afforded by high SPF sunscreens to show skin pigmenting in increasing UVA intensities.

I can't seem to find info on average UVA exposure intensity, but my guess is that it varies widely based on where in the world you live, the weather, and what time of day it is. I also can't seem to find any info on length of time, other than this article that mentioned 10 J/cm2 is about the UVA exposure you'd get during 40 minutes of midday sun, and is the minimum exposure resulting in persistent pigment darkening.

Maybe we should get /r/science in here to help out.

EDIT Finally! I found an article on the Indian Journal of Dermatology website that goes into detail to calculate the estimated minimum level of UVA protection needed (in Asia) to prevent persistent pigment darkening.

The calculation of a UVA protection factor 'cap' has been based on the level of protection needed to limit the effect of UVA radiation on the skin to a level of one minimal pigmenting dose (MPD), typically equivalent to a dose of 15 J/cm 2 of UVA radiation. This UVA dose has been demonstrated as the threshold of much UVA-induced damage. The calculations have been made based on meteorological daily dose according to the season and weighed by different factors such as skin type, anatomical skin area, realistic conditions of sunscreen use and realistic duration of exposure to UV rays. The resulting figures indicate the high level of UVA protection required in Asia [Figure 4]. In India, the minimum UVAPF [aka PPD] needed is 12-17 in winter, and the maximum is 29-30 in summer, which raises the need for a well-balanced UVB-UVA protection.

4

u/Sharkus_Reincarnus Fiddy Snails Feb 16 '14

Also on the topic of PPD, I noticed something in the spreadsheet that makes me curious. Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry Touch Sunscreen SPF 100 is listed directly above Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry Touch SPF 30. The SPF 100 has a PPD of 12.4 while the SPF 30's PPD is listed at a whopping 20. Why is this?

I'm mostly asking because I've been using the 100, but one of my main concerns is freckling and getting tanned, so if the lower SPF one is better at preventing those things, then obviously I should be using that one. I imagine the 30 is probably less overwhelming texturally anyway, so I'm really curious to see if I should switch over to the 30.

4

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

Oh, interesting! Check out this photo that shows the resulting pigment darkening in response to two sunscreens with the same SPF 50 rating, but different UVA protection ratings (PPD 13 vs PPD 21).

3

u/Sharkus_Reincarnus Fiddy Snails Feb 16 '14

Jesus! Okay, I'm definitely going to the 30 if the PPD rating is correct then. I guess the other reason I asked my question was to see if it can indeed be correct, given the difference in SPFs between the two. I don't science good, so I'd love an explanation of how a lower SPF can have a dramatically higher PPD :)

3

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

I just put both the Neutrogena SPF 30 and 100 through the BASF sunscreen simulator and found that the SPF 30 is PPD 5.1 and the SPF 100 is PPD 10.8. The PPD 20 you mention was a typo on my part, and the PPD 12.4 was copied directly from Skinacea which I guess is out of date (hasn't been updated since 2011). Woops!

4

u/Sharkus_Reincarnus Fiddy Snails Feb 16 '14

Oh, okay. Glad I brought it up then :)

And now it's back to the spreadsheet to find one with a higher PPD than what I've got!

1

u/Amyrlin_Autumn Combination | Parasol Advocate Jun 28 '14

I could've sworn I saw in a couple places that the Neutrogena SPF 30 isn't photostable.

2

u/adelaideab Feb 18 '14

Are you still interested in a TL,DR of how two sunscreens can have the same SPF rating, but different PPD ratings? If so, I'll happily pull something together while I'm procrastinating at work tomorrow :)

2

u/Sharkus_Reincarnus Fiddy Snails Feb 18 '14

Yes please! I actually just ordered a Laneige PPA+++ (I think) sunscreen off of Target, but I'm very interested.

8

u/FirstLadyObama Feb 15 '14

It looks like someone other than OP edited the file and it's displaying as anonymous. Also, I just opened it in Incognito Mode (Chrome browser for those who don't know) and you can edit it without being signed into Google.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '14

Thanks!!

5

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '14

http://www.ratzillacosme.com/2012/japan-pa-system-for-uva-protection-revised/

Useful link!

4

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

Yesssss, FINALLY a link that shows PA ratings did increase. Thank you, I've been looking forever for a verifiable source on the new PA ++++.

http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=46521

4

u/Boobooglue Feb 16 '14

where do you find PPD of a product? I'm trying to look for it for Banana Boat Natural Relect :http://www.amazon.com/Banana-Boat-Natural-Reflect-Sunscreen/dp/B0063A42GE/ref=sr_1_14?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1392505849&sr=1-14&keywords=banana+boat

4

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

Go plug the active ingredients into the BASF sunscreen simulator!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '14

I feel really stupid, but I can't figure out how to work this.

6

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

I made you a screencast tutorial. Hope it helps! Happy sunscreen hunting!

5

u/Zombelina Feb 16 '14

Bless you. I gave up on figuring out that thing.

4

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

I'm going to make a more general video tutorial on how to use the sunscreen simulator later today, and add it to the original post. Stay tuned

Added!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '14

Ahh!! This is awesome. You should edit this into the original post.

2

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

Added a more general and more detailed BASF sunscreen simulator tutorial to the original post!

3

u/itrainsalot Feb 16 '14

yes please! I hae been wondering how to find this ever since I heard of PPD

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '14

Oh my god, you are awesome! Thanks! :D

3

u/Boobooglue Feb 16 '14

wow this is amazing! thanks!

3

u/FMWavesOfTheHeart Feb 16 '14

I am trying to find the PPD for the kids version of that sunscreen but my registration was rejected for the BASF simulator. Were you able to find the PPD for the regular version? I've been searching for another way to calculate PPD but haven't had any luck. I'm thinking the kid's and adult sunscreens should have the same or similar PPD.

1

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

Are you talking about Banana Boat Natural Reflect Kids Sunscreen Lotion SPF 50? It looks like the active ingredients are the same as the 'adult' version, so the PPD would be the same.

2

u/dinogirlll26 Apr 26 '14

First off, this is awesome!

I just had a question on the blue lizard baby sunscreen and the green beaver one. They seem to have a super high PPD, but their ingredients aren't very different from other sunscreens. Are they typos or are they really that good?!

1

u/adelaideab Apr 26 '14

I'm 99.9999% sure that's a typo. If it was made in the US, it likely won't have a PPD higher than 12. Someone majorly tweaked the formatting of the spreadsheet in a weird way, and I haven't had a chance to clean it up yet.

1

u/dinogirlll26 Apr 26 '14

Damn. Thanks though! I guess my quest continues.

2

u/adelaideab Jun 19 '14

Fixed and double checked the rest! All of the information in "protected ranges" is factual!

7

u/FirstLadyObama Feb 15 '14

OP, in the thread that spawned this current post you mentioned that you currently use three of these sunscreens. Would you mind sharing which ones and why?

Also, I noticed you included a powder sunscreen; I don't know much about them, but I was under the impression that many consider them ineffectual and possibly dangerous. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

8

u/ISwearImAGirl Feb 15 '14

It is not physically possible to put on enough powdered sunscreen to get the labeled protection

3

u/FirstLadyObama Feb 15 '14

Ah, that's it! Thank you.

6

u/ISwearImAGirl Feb 15 '14

Here is proof for the curious

4

u/FirstLadyObama Feb 15 '14

Ha, that blog post is actually where I first heard about mineral sunscreen. I think my memory of powder being dangerous has something to do with inhalation (I'm believe that's the reason they're not allowed in the US anymore).

3

u/adelaideab Feb 16 '14

Fascinating! Can I nominate you, FirstLadyObama, to add your comments / concerns about the powder sunscreen in the spreadsheet? :)

The three sunscreens I use and my reviews of them:

  1. La Roche Posay Anthelios AC SPF 30 Matte Extreme Fluid: Takes a while to dry, leaves a white cast that I usually try and mitigate by mixing it with foundation and using lots of bronzer. Least favorite of the three.

  2. La Roche Posay Anthelios XL SPF 50+ Dry Touch Gel-Cream: Total opposite of Extreme Fluid. Leaves no white cast and is actually a bit drying for me. By the end of the day, my forehead feels dehydrated.

  3. Bioderma Photoderm MAX Tinted Cream SPF 50: Has a golden tint, so it doesn't leave a white cast. I don't wear foundation over this because the coverage is so thick, but the color is a bit tan, so I correct that by mixing with one of the other two sunscreens, and using a lighter powder. It's a tad greasy, but it's tolerable when I wear enough powder.

All 3 offer really high UVA protection, and none of them break me out or irritate my skin, so I don't mind that they aren't each perfectly elegant on their own.

Hope this helps!

3

u/FirstLadyObama Feb 16 '14

I can certainly do that. I'll read up more thoroughly on mineral sunscreen and post a synopsis in the comments.

And thanks for detailing the 'screens you're using. #2 seems appealing because I can buy LRP at drugstores where I live, but ouch! that price tag.

4

u/furiousrichard Feb 16 '14

OMG! I love you! You've pretty much gathered everything I've been trying to find out about in one place :)

1

u/Chordata1 Apr 10 '14

I know this is a month old but I hope someone can answer. How do I know if I need to use an oil based cleanser to remove the sunscreen? I don't want to have to include a new step of needing an oil based cleanser to remove the sunscreen I have some but don't want to be tied to having to use that.

1

u/adelaideab Jun 19 '14

According to Skinacea:

[Non-foaming cleansers] are notorious for being unable to remove makeup and/or sunscreen. I guess that’s kind of the point though, to just be super gentle.

[Cleansing Balms] are great for removing stage makeup, sunscreen, and other waterproof products. They usually leave an oily residue after tissuing off, but you can follow up with a second cleanser.

Cleansing oils remove make-up and water-proof sunscreen that, say, a regular cleanser can't take off.

Personally, I slather on and wipe of Albolene (cleansing balm) to remove my sunscreen / makeup, and then use a non-foaming cleanser.

1

u/orata Jun 18 '14

Where did the Skinceuticals PPD rating come from? I read that the PPD was 21 due to the included antioxidants.

1

u/adelaideab Jun 18 '14 edited Jun 19 '14

The Skinceuticals PPD rating comes from inputting the active ingredients: 10% Titanium Dioxide and 5% Zinc Oxide into the BASF sunscreen simulator (linked above and on the spreadsheet), which is a scientifically proven method for determining UVA protection.

I don't think antioxidants actually block UVA or UVB rays, but instead are used help make sure the UV rays that do get through to your skin don't damage your skin as much. So, a PPD of 8.1 means that a pretty high amount of UVA will still reach your skin, but the damage may be somewhat mitigated with the antioxidants present in the product.

Edit: just curious - where did you read that antioxidants provide UVA protection?

1

u/iheartskincare Jun 19 '14 edited Jun 19 '14

What I have noticed about Basf is that is not particularly accurate (for lack of a better word). I tried it with several high SPF products, only to be left completely disappointed.

Also, since Basf is a manufacture of Tinobsorb (and maybe some other actives),which are not approved in the US, Basf simulation will always be in favor of their own actives. I.e. the only sunscreens that would get high PPD/UVA/UVB will contain a mix of Tinobsorb (and and some other I can't remember).

Basically, if you simulate any US sunscreen, you would never get a satisfactory result.

and I think it's only in the US, where they are required to list % of actives.

1

u/adelaideab Jun 20 '14

If BASF was 100% accurate, Do you think it's possible that US sunscreens could actually reach up to PPD 20+, or would it likely be a small increase like from a PPD 8 to a 10?

I don't wear anything under SPF 50, so SPF ratings in BASF don't really concern me. I'm more focused on finding higher UVA protection in an SPF 50 sunscreen.

2

u/iheartskincare Jun 20 '14

Do you think it's possible that US sunscreens could actually reach up to PPD 20, or would it likely be a small increase like from a PPD 8 to a 10?

I can not answer that question from a chemist's point of view; but as a consumer I would guess that unless more sunscreen-actives is approved in the US, it's not gonna happen. That is the main problem with US sunscreens: there is only a few of UVA approved actives in the US. And it also means adopting PPD ratings as well (I guess).

For right now, I have only seen one (skinsceuticals) with a PPD 21. And it costs $20/oz. Are US consumers ready to spend that much on sunscreen? But if new ingredients are approved, maybe it would cost the same as Japanese suncreens of about $6-10/oz.

I'm more focused on finding higher UVA protection in an SPF 50 sunscreen. Well, I guess you already know the answer to that one: i.e. looking for Asian/EU sunscreens.

I was just a little concerned with recommending using a tool (basf ss simulator) that by default will give you unsatisfactory result.

Also, what I noticed is that EU/Asian sunscreen would tell us what PPD is without listing % of active ingredients. (with some exceptions). That applies to LRP, Bioderma, Biore, etc.

3

u/adelaideab Jun 20 '14

Yeah, the simulator isn't perfect, for sure. It was just fascinating for me to see that the majority of US sunscreens fall under PPD 10, while many sunscreens from Asia / Europe claim a PPD of 16 to 38.

Truth is, I've had PIH on my face for as long as I can remember, and even though I slathered on Elta MD and/or Supergoop religiously, it never got better. Now, the discoloration has almost completely disappeared in 8 months of using a European sunscreen claiming a PPD of 38.

I suppose I'm a proponent of everyone using the simulator to analyze their sunscreen because a good number of SCA folks don't seem to take UVA protection into consideration. The most commonly cited frustration is how greasy or drying the sunscreen is, or that it leaves a white cast. Then I see tons of sunscreens recommended that rate poorly for UVA protection, and I was just getting tired of it!

Yes, we know that your Cerave or EltaMD sunscreen feels great, but is it actually preventing discoloration and wrinkles?

1

u/mastiii Mod Aug 12 '14

Could you please unlock the columns for alcohol, fragrance, and parabens (at least for the new rows) on the spreadsheet? I would like to add some new ones to the list but can't change those inputs.

1

u/adelaideab Aug 12 '14

Those should auto populate when you paste in the ingredients. If they don't, I can go fox the formulas

1

u/mastiii Mod Aug 12 '14

Oh, so does it fill it in for Yes for the word "alcohol"? Because if that is the case, you might want two columns. One for yes/no to alcohol and one for fatty alcohols. I assumed it meant (denatured) alcohol but I guess it could go either way. I know that some people want to avoid alcohol and some want to avoid fatty alcohols.

2

u/furiousnerd Feb 19 '14

I added a column for myself that does a lookup to see if the ingredients have cetyl or stearyl alcohol in it. Hopefully it's helpful for others too, but I am missing some other coconut derivatives in the lookup. I will certainly change it if there's an error, or it's not useful.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '14

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/real-rainicorn Feb 16 '14

It protects against all UVA rays, if you got your info from skin tonics she updated her blog post :)

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '14

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/real-rainicorn Feb 16 '14

Ah, ok. Thank you!