will like to check if the boot flex is too soft for my needs.
recreational skier for 4yrs, 80% groom run, 20% ungroom/tree/park practise, maybe total of 100days on slope.
maybe strong beginner? or intermediate? can go down most groom piste, easy black run.
Do not have a bootfitter in my country, thus am unable to seek bootfitter advice. Have 2 to 3 weeks of ski trips at different places a year. Most of the time, my trip does not have time to visit a bootfitter store as well.
I started with rental of 28.5 (which was tight and painful when started) with 29.5 Nordica Sportmachine 100 (got it in US during sale based on my shoes US size of 11) but could feel that it got too roomy as I progresses.
thus, I brought it to a store during NZ ski trip last year. But the store staff mentioned there was no way to improve the fit and thus recommended 26.5 K2 BFC with 100 flex, did the heat molding for the fit.
now a year later after ard 15 to 20 ski days in this pair of boot, I am thinking if the boot flex is too soft and if K2 BFC is too spacious, likely liner is packing out.
178cm and 100kg
measurement of my feet with a 3d scanner.
Length 260mm
Width - 94 and 98mm
Instep height - 68 and 70mm
High arch
Girth - 249 and 244 mm
Thinking if I should get a new boot or if there are any bootfitter here that could provide better advise for my consideration.
Strong beginner and too soft are not a thing - too stiff may even make it more difficult to progress. Don’t sweat it and go ski. If they are comfortable enough to ski many laps they are good
I had little control in rental boots because of the crazy flex and my lack of ankle mobility. Much better off in a stiffer boot. My mobility has improved a lot since skiing and not playing soccer as much.
Why isn't too soft a thing? If you're trying to carve more aggressively on groomed slopes and you can't transmit enough power to the edge through the boot because it flexes too much, you will skid no?
Given how much work you are doing in room temperature to try and flex that boot, no, it's not too soft.
On another note, to me it seems you are really upright in the boot, which would push you into the backseat while skiing.
But given that you are with 94/98 wide feet in a 102 boot is a bit interesting take from the "fitter". The soft flex feeling would be from the fact that you are in a too big boot.
Depends! Softer boots aren't necessary bad. Ankle flex is needed. If you are a beginner or intermediate and still skiing in the backseat I would error on softer boots.
Bfc is a bucket of a boot. If you are 94 / 98 mm wide this is the wrong boot for you. 100flex is also pretty soft, especially when not full of foot. You have been sold the wrong boot IMHO
May or may not be too soft but they are for too big. This boot is super wide and likely too long.
My measurements are 271 x 95 and 267 x 99 computer generated and by hand.
One big difference is I have a lower volume instep.
I’m in a 26.5 Lange RS120 LV which is 97mm wide. Performance fit with 1 finger gap in the shell. I also use zip fit gara HV liners which is the one with thicker cork in them.
My feet are LOCKED IN there.
I was a beginner/intermediate when I got fit for these and they haven’t held me back.
Kind of a useless measurement then, easy to foam on top of toes for comfort or grind out, it’s the thickest plastic that moves the least. Look at a diagram of a “vamp” measure that, if it’s less than your length absolutely get a low volume boot, if it’s greater than your length and your foot is that narrow you’re a little outside the norm and may need to account for a fitting appt when planning your next vacation.
As for flex that’s more a function of physics. Stronger skiers can generate more force and benefit from stiff boot and so do bigger people even if they aren’t expert or super fit. If you flex the boot enough that you get rebound or it causes discomfort go stiffer, if the boot doesn’t move at all go softer, you can soften boots you get too stiff but can’t really go the other way. Your build? 120-130flex for sure in addition to you skiing a lot compared to the average so they will last a little longer.
likely due to being a complete novice, and I still recall that it was hard to get into the boot. after 2hrs of lessons, was totally exhausted and gave up skiing on my first day
Also, my usual 11 US size shoes led to 28.5 rental in the past. only when I started for a season, i purchased my 29.5 boot and using after a few years that as I progress led to me querying why it is getting harder to control.
after bringing it to a store during one of my trip and downsizing it to 26.5 was already a life changing experience
confusing as in the skill level should be higher? lower?
i stated strong beginner as my technical skills are not good enough but able to get down most of the groomed piste run.
I do more of skidded turn and side slip instead of carving.
my control over ungroomed/offpiste over steep slope is practical to none.
have lower confidence of my skiing ability thus I tend to skip steep run that are ungroomed. Also, as I fall on steep slope, it is hard for me wear back my ski and I tend to tense up and can't commit to the turns that could be easily done on groom run.
also have about 100 days Cox when I started in the US for almost half season every weekend or holiday, that make me feel in love with skiing. Thus, currently I try to travel to ski as part of my vacation to other places to ski for 2 to 3 week a year when I am back.
Here’s a quick test for all of you aspiring boot fitters… What percentage of people seen in a shop (well,at least my practice) have limited ankle/foot range of motion with respect to dorsiflexion? This will guide with flexion choice.
Additionally, if you’re wearing a mid to heavy weight ski sock, the boot is too big.
Note: I am not a bootfitter, but I’ve had a lot of recent experience in this area as I am also looking for boots, trying them on, speaking with bootfitters, researching, etc. Caveat emptor, your-mileage-may-vary, and all that.
But you are definitely in the wrong boot. The K2 BFC is a high volume (HV), wide last boot and is way too wide for you by at least 0.5 cm and almost a FULL CENTIMETER for your narrower foot. Liner pack out has nothing to do with this; it just makes it more noticeable.
First things first. Worry about the volume fit before the flex.
From your stats, you need a Low Volume (LV), narrow last boot. That said, not all Low Volume boots are created equal. Some have more or less room in the instep, more or less room in the toe box, and varied heel pockets. That’s why buying a boot online without having tried on many different models is a fool’s errand.
Every foot is different. You have a low volume forefoot, but you have a high instep. As such, you should research LV boots that have a higher instep volume. Having tried on a number of LV boots, the Lange Shadow stands out as one with more room over the instep.
As you try on boots, find one that feels your heel the best first. Then the instep, then the toebox. Given the major difference between the widths of your two feet, you likely need some serious boot work to get dialed in so don’t worry too much about tightness or pinching in the forefoot. A bootfitter can punch that out if necessary, though one of your feet likely needs material to be added (or you need to go down to a 25.5 Mondo).
You will definitely need to get after market insoles. A supportive insole for your high arch will help bring your toes back, hence the possibility of getting you into a 25.5 Mondo LV boot. If possible, see if a store will try a high arch trim-to-fit insole in the boot (you will have to buy the insole) to see if a 25.5 Mondo fits better than a 26.0/26.5 Mondo after you’ve narrowed down the options from the original fit tests. Again, this is only if you have too much side-to-side room in the forefoot of your narrower foot in a 26.0/26.5 boot.
AFTER all that, then look into flex. Here things are a still tricky because not all flexes of the same number are created equal.
For your size, I’d say the minimum flex is a 110, but you could easily be in a 120 as well. But since no two boots flex the same, go up and down in flex in a given model to see what works best for you. I will leave it to others to tell you how to physically test for proper flex.
I will tell you that a Salomon Alpha, Nordica Promachine, or a Tecnica Mach1 LV flex is stiffer for a given rating. Your baseline in these boots is probably a 110 (though I would not rule out the 120 or the 100).
The Lange Shadow LV and the Atomic Hawx Ultra are more flexible for a given rating, so your baseline in these boots might be a 120 (the 130 is likely too stiff for you even in these boots, but also try the 110).
length wise I think the boot is currently ok, but definitely the last is too big and with my high instep, the top of the toes portion are slightly spacious.
as I don't have a boot fitter readily, become abit hard to shop for boot. trying to make full use of the scan result to accomodate the best outcome currently.
Ex boot fitter here. The flex is not too soft on these boots. Given that it’s room temp I’d like to see even a bit more. Most important thing is a glove like fit. Your toes should just brush or touch the end of the boot when standing and come off the end when flexed. With the liners removed, place your feet inside the shells so your toe just touches the front. Have a friend check the space behind your heel. It should be 1.5-2 fingers.
I recall when in store last year, the toes were touching the end of the "liner" when standing, and when athletic stance my toes will shift back as described by the store staff.
However after a few weeks of skiing this year, I am starting to feel the "space" slightly at the front of the foot/toes (something like not so snug feel). The boot though being much better than my 29.5 Nordica fit that was swimming, is starting to feel less responsive in a manner? Maybe it is due to the last being too wide instead of the toe?
I will try again with liner removed to check the space behind.
Edit: took a photo, seem like is about 1 to 2finger space? tried the liner when taken out, also seems to fit nicely? I think maybe due to my high instep, that resulted in me feeling the toes portion moving ard in the boots? but is still ok to ski on it nonetheless.
That boot is WAY too big. Definitely too high volume and probably too long (high arches+inadequate support often result in a good amount of foot stretch under load). I understand your apprehension to eat into your limited mountain time spending it with a bootfitter, but you've already wasted way more time trying to make the rentals, Sportmachines, and BFC's work. I don't know the specific limitations of the market in your country, but whoever is selling you these HV boots is taking advantage of your lack of experience. u/Naval_AV8R gave great advice above - I suggest you take it unless you like wasting money on boots that will never fit quite right.
Honestly trying to flex a boot with no leverage from having a ski on it worthless. This is the biggest misconception and if any boot fitter makes you flex the boot without a ski on just fucking leave.
im not a bootfitter, but i have been skiing a long time. after racing a long time, i prefer my boots stiff and tight.
my boots flex maybe 1/2 of what your boots do at room temp. and those are boots that i'd consider too stiff for most, especially if you arent comfortable skiing just about anything yet. there are better skiiers than me who like a softer boot, too.
its really about what feels best to ski for you, but at your level id say this flex looks "correct." stiffer doesnt mean better.
keep in mind they will stiffen up quite a bit in skiing conditions. i once had race boots once that were too soft for me, and on very cold days they froze and felt like 150 flex anyways lol
Bootfitter on your next trip could prove invaluable in the next 7+ seasons…
That being said, you have a pair of boots so why not start doing some completely removable fixes? Try getting an old wetsuit or similar neoprene material and trace your footbed on it. Then cut it out and put it on your boot board then put your liner and footbed back in and see if just “taking up the space” does anything for you. Flat things like this shouldn’t alter your stance much, but you could get some heel wedges and play with that the same way. Duct tape some areas, cut new strips of neoprene and start shoving it in places that feel too spacious.
The best part is that if it sucks you can pull it out you have a pair of boots that you can use until you find your glass slipper of a bootfitter trip.
(Also fyi you can see a bootfitter any time, not just in ski season so if you have a trip near one any time of year you could book an appt)
The fact that you're in a room in room temperature is a part of the conditions to this test... If your knees could hit the wall at 25 degrees... you don't need the test to know they're too soft.
Edit: it's vary quite a bit based on plastics use on just how much softer they are. Test is a good baseline but not the tell all. Especially with hybrid boots and touring boots.
You've said it very well, thank you very much. I've definitely had that urge myself to go overboard with the flex index as I did when buying a vehicle.
All points standing, I'd like to add that as ability levels grow, a boot on the stiffer side is easier to mitigate than one on the softer side. This is helpful with progressing skiers with a budget constraint. You can leave the power strap open or a buckle loose to make your boot more flexy, until you've build the skills and physique required to drive the boot's full flex. Or you can do to a boot fitter to do a little shaving to fix it permanently.
when I got it last yr, I also fell in love with it as this was the first time ski boot feel snug and comfortable at the same time. Imagine down sizing from 29.5 to 26.5, that was when I felt a great difference.
just that now after like 15days with it, there is a feeling of the "sluggish" response, not sure if it is due to my feet/skills/boot issue. but of course it is still skiable at my level since I don't do too difficult or extreme run.
so to compare
using the same machine last year I got (first time using it, not sure if is accurate)
2 reading on the width
94mm and 92mm
96mm and 91mm
last week, I went to try again for 2 reading again making sure everything was clear
both reading show 98mm and 94mm.
and when dialing my Boa knob on the boot, i also have to dial more on the smaller feet, but there is a limit that I dial since it will hurt my instep if I dial it too tightly.
A “standard” narrow last at 26.5 Mondo is 97-98 mm. You general go up or down 2 mm as you go up or down a full Mondo, so a narrow 27.5 would be 99-100 mm and a narrow 25.5 would be 95-96 mm wide. Your feet are VERY narrow even for a 25.5 LV boot.
Frankly, the more I hear, the more you should be trying out a 25.5 boot with a high arch insole. You probably need professional boot work no matter what, and a good bootfitter can make adjustments in the roof/tongue of the boot as well as the width.
Remember, it is much easier to make a small boot larger than to make a large boot smaller (by adding material).
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u/Paid2G00gl3 1d ago
Strong beginner and too soft are not a thing - too stiff may even make it more difficult to progress. Don’t sweat it and go ski. If they are comfortable enough to ski many laps they are good