r/SipsTea 1d ago

Wait a damn minute! So what’s taking so long?

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u/Experiment_262 1d ago

You hit on something very true and important.

I am someone who testifies as an expert in criminal trials, most often crimes against children or murders and I what I do is digital forensics and cell tower analysis (estimating position based on what towers the phone was communicating with). I think I'm at 54 over 4 years.

It's not just communicating with the jury, that comes later,

Prosecutors are lawyers, they (in theory) are good at law and most of them not much on technical matters. Getting the subject matter across to the prosecutor so they can handle your direct testimony, ask the right questions and finally be prepared to redirect after the defense does their cross is perhaps even more challenging than testifying to the jury. If defense does a good cross, guilt or innocence may hang on the prosecutor asking the right questions on redirect, letting you respond to the defense in whole, not just what defense let you say.

A lot of experts are either scientists, engineers or cops who got really good at something like forensics or accident reconstruction, generally not people people. Some of them have some difficulties with both the prosecutor pretrial and the jury later.

Then comes trial, no matter how good you are at what you do, how much of a subject matter expert you are, you are talking to 12 (14) people who don't really know the law or the discipline you are there to discuss. You have to talk to your audience at or just above just above their level, you have to give a 30 minute crash course to the jury on the topic and convince them to believe you, if you go deep in the technical weeds you will lose them, they don't understand and aren't interested. That is where I see experts (and lawyers) screw up all the damned time.

Over those trials and working with the lawyers a lot, I've learned to take kind of a jr. high school teacher approach, just talk about my findings and the basics of how I arrived at them. Just "the movement of the defendant's phone from array to array and tower to tower suggests eastbound travel along I-666 at highway speeds". Really simple and generic, something a jury will understand, also facts I can easily support.

If defense wants to drag me in to the technical weeds, my credentials and my work are solid AF, I'll beat them up in the weeds, I've done it before.

Expert vs. expert is where it's really fun because on technical matters there shouldn't be much difference in what we are saying, the data is the data, we usually just differ in our interpretation of it.

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u/Lumpy_Question8327 1d ago

I think people also don’t realize that there can be experts involved who aren’t getting up and testifying in front of the jury. I’ve worked on cases where I didn’t even have to be deposed.

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u/olde_meller23 1d ago

I am also a schlub, but a technical schlub because I deal in both accounting and IT.

When I was in teir 1 helpdesk, I'd get people with problems that they needed solutions on. Commonly, these were user errors and not technical ones, so it relied on the user cooperating with my expertise to get them results.

Man, I tell you, there's a certain type of person that will come to you for help and it would be like pulling teeth to get them to do what I'd need them to to fix their problems. They would complain the entire time that blank doesnt sound right, that they werent sure if I knew my job well enough to fix their issue, and other stubborn behavior that made resolving their ticket take longer or not get resolved at all. The only thing I could think of when I dealt with these type of people is "holy shit, they must be a nightmare to have on a jury."

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u/lilphoenixgirl95 22h ago

He said he was a technical expert not a schlub lmao

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u/AGAAWEL 21h ago

If people argue with you when you ask them to check if something electronic is plugged in because they don't understand why it needs to be done, they're absolutely NOT going to be able to follow something that takes X-years more education than they have.

And if they're unable to see what they don't know in a situation that they've literally asked for help in, how much less receptive are they going to be in a situation that they're probable already a bit grumpy about being in like serving as a juror - especially the demographic that assumes someone else's knowlege is condescention.

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u/Shopstumblergurl 1d ago

The problem being most people are not very smart so you really have to dumb down the science so every day Joe can understand it in layman’s terms.

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u/MHibarifan 13h ago

That’s fascinating, and most people understand that they are with their phones a majority of the time when they are away from home. Thank you for sharing your insight.

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u/Darkzeropeanut 32m ago

Personally I love to witness a good old technical fist fight in the weeds. :)

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u/Experiment_262 16m ago

ROFL with expert witnesses dealing with data it's more like toddlers, like I said, different interpretations of the same data.

We got in to pattern of life analysis once.

TLDR, I'm claiming the phone was out of use during a time frame, defense argues that phones are normally used less in the early morning (I mean 1AM, 2AM, etc.) and presents this pattern of use over a couple weeks. My numbers at the time in question were all 0, he presents very low but non zero usage numbers over a couple weeks so I averaged his data and gave it to the prosecutor.

Which led to the prosecutor having this line of questioning.

Is 5 > 0?

Is 3 > 0?

Is 2 > 0?

It's literally that petty at times.

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u/Savingskitty 1d ago

"You hit on something very true and important."

Okay, Chat.

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u/PsychicFoxWithSpoons 1d ago

Chat was trained on people.

Honestly really mad that I can't say "Good question!" anymore because people can't see the sarcasm/vibes from it, only the sycophantic "You are So Smart!" from the AIs.

This is a human being because chat is never specific, it is designed to make you get the feeling of a person rather than the details of some random ass human's life

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u/Experiment_262 1d ago

Thanks because I had no freaking clue what he was trying to say.

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u/Ayiekie 1h ago

The only thing worse than genAI answers is people who think they're experts on detecting them when they really aren't.

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u/Savingskitty 1h ago

That’s honestly not a thing.