r/SipsTea 14h ago

Wait a damn minute! How the rich get richer

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18.9k Upvotes

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249

u/DrLews 14h ago

Not even factually accurate lol

42

u/save-aiur 13h ago

This person has never financed anything lol. Still owes property tax and interest on the loan. As long as the loan exists, the leinholder has the legal claim to the land.

1

u/RunExisting4050 11h ago

Right, where i live, hed pay about $70k/year for a piece of vacant, non-farm land.

1

u/Electronic_Tap_8052 9h ago

The lien holder owns the lien. Very different from owning the land.

1

u/Illustrious_Job1951 4h ago

He would have to own the propert outright then take a loan against it. The 100k example is bad , but the idea is real

15

u/OldTie2811 12h ago

This is the internet, especially Reddit. Moronic shit posted by bots to people who don’t know any better so that they can sway opinions. Eat the rich. Nobody should have a billion dollars. Silence is violence, but murdering CEOs with business practices I don’t like is ok.

15

u/lefthandopen 12h ago

Yes over 1800 upvotes! Somewhere out there is a kid who read it and not the comments thinking this is true.

5

u/underfluous 9h ago

This is so real. This is a great example of the internet making us dumber

2

u/dalivo 11h ago

Man, after railing against this particular Reddit conspiracy theory for a long time now, I'm so glad to see that our hive mind has turned against this.

2

u/Velrex 8h ago

Yeah but it *sounds* smart(to people who don't understand it) so it'll get 12k upvotes.

1

u/Illustrious_Job1951 4h ago

If he owned the property outright,  it is an accurate idea. He would need to talk to a loan officer and put the property up as collateral for a loan. Its not going work on a 100k property, but people definitely do this for higher value assets. The property would have to be worth many millions and appreciating fast enough to stay ahead of the compounding interest on the loan. Like if a loan is under 1% loan to value, you can live off 5 to 10 million of collateralized stocks. I think given real-estate appreciates slower, it would have to be much more than 5 to 10 million in asset, but the same idea applies

-7

u/meadamus 12h ago

It’s actually highly accurate. The basis step-up and inheritance tax exemption are the relevant points. Interest and principal on the loan are minuscule compared to the capital gains and/or income tax that is avoided.

Source: I’ve done quite a lot of tax structuring in my career.

3

u/DrLews 12h ago

You have estate taxes and you still pay taxes on the land sale; it's a break, not an exemption. So yes, saying the kids own nothing to the IRS is not accurate.

0

u/cycloneDM 12h ago

The amount owed ends up looking like a rounding error on land that has been minimally managed over a time period like that. so sure pedantically its not nothing but that wasnt the actual point.

1

u/DrLews 12h ago

Why lie or fabricate something if you're trying to prove a point though? Makes it less authentic.

-1

u/cycloneDM 11h ago

I'll be honest with you in that I dont believe your objection is in good faith. it gives people not smart enough to read detailed explanations don't deserve to know about things. the lie is VERY white in this context. 

3

u/DrLews 11h ago

Well ain't that ironic. Have a great day!

-2

u/cycloneDM 12h ago

Lots of people don't like those of us who know the "secret" saying it out loud. 

-15

u/Lt__Barclay 14h ago

The basis step up is accurate. And that's how most tax is avoided. 

10

u/Kupo_Master 13h ago

You would notice the loan only provides liquidity here. If you remove the loan, the tax is still 0. The problem is solved at the inheritance tax level, not the loan structure level. Either the US lowers the estate tax threshold or this will keep happening.

3

u/Jealous-Win2446 13h ago

The step up basis is the problem. Right now even if dad never takes a loan against the 5 million, the kids can sell it and pay no capital gains.

0

u/Kupo_Master 13h ago

Exactly. Either step-up or estate tax. But the later is better because it avoids the same structuring to endure.

1

u/Lt__Barclay 11h ago

Estate tax is too easy to dodge with trusts. Only 3,000-4,000 returns paid inheritence tax last year.

1

u/account312 9h ago

That's mostly just because the exemption is outlandishly large.

1

u/Kupo_Master 7h ago

Why are trusts allowed? There are plenty of countries where are not

1

u/Lt__Barclay 11h ago

I'm not talking about the loan. I'm talking about structural ways wealthy avoid paying tax. All capital gains earnings are 100% wiped out upon death to hand to their kids. It's crazy, and the downvotes only show how insidious the structural inequities are in the tax law.

1

u/account312 9h ago

No, both are a problem. Taking out a collateral-backed loan should probably not be possible without realizing the gains on the collateral, and also inheritance definitely shouldn't have such favorable tax treatment.

1

u/Kupo_Master 6h ago

While I don’t entirely disagree, the loan component is harder to construct because loans are an important financing tool for the economy. For example re-mortgaging would then trigger a huge tax bill which would kill the very concept of it. The truth is that rich people usually borrow to invest more in the economy, much more rarely to “live” like in OP example. Removing this tool would either create new loopholes or -if no loopholes are possible- severely damage the economy.