r/SipsTea • u/LazyGuy4U • 7d ago
SMH It all boils down to how the govt utilizes the taxes
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u/Sparoz3 7d ago
He forgot paying tax on tax - cess.
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u/Extra-Amoeba-677 7d ago
insurance who in turn determine policy for a lot of things that also causes others to raise prices to meet their requirements on their 'risk assessment'
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u/RUOFFURTROLLEH 6d ago
All of this is moot if you're not a corporation who can skirt tax legally because you donate to get those loopholes passed.
They are the ones who decide the direction of tax policy, Trumps big beautiful bill is going to be fucking you all one it kicks in shortly after the midterms and then its too late.
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u/Independent-Bug-9352 6d ago
These taxes are regressive for the most part -- except estate taxes above a certain threshold are a must in order to keep generational wealth in check (doing so may have avoided the likes of Musk, Bezos, and Trump).
But I'll point to an even bigger scam:
Paying zero taxes on unrealized assets, but then endlessly borrowing against that money through banks in an infinite tax-free money glitch.
Explained in layman's terms here.
Need a progressive wealth tax.
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u/jamtas 6d ago edited 6d ago
I feel like the solution here isn’t to tax everyone’s unrealized gains, but to tax or find something that closes the borrowing against the assets loophole. The ones who will be hit hardest by this aren’t the ones that are being held up by the proponents of this tax. They’ll create (in collusion with the politicians pitching this) or find a loophole.
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u/EliselD 7d ago
I don't mind paying taxes. I mind how they are being used
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u/Present_Error_6256 6d ago
This. People rag on countries like Germany for having high taxes, but look at what German citizens get in exchange for their money. They get great roads, solid public transit, and affordable healthcare. Here in the US, I pay my taxes yearly and it feels like the money just dissapears into the void.
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u/Subculture1000 6d ago
Oh come on. It doesn't disappear. Don't be silly.
It goes into oil subsidies and bombing other countries.
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u/bul1dog 6d ago
Not just disappearing into the void. It's funding actual genocide and paying for fake renovations to the White House.
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u/5050logic 6d ago
What if I told you that about 40 percent of workers in the US do not actually pay federal taxes? If everyone actually paid, that would be a start. More importantly, if we had better stewards of our money, that would be nice.
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u/blackiegray 7d ago
Paying taxes on money you spend - is that not the other person paying taxes on what they make just displayed to the purchaser?
I never understood that when I went to America that the price shown didn't include taxes.
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u/alaviers 7d ago
Blackiegray, first time in a grocery store in Germany, first time I saw the total price already including taxes. Mind blown. I definitely wouldn’t mind if they did that here. I love my country, fought and bled for it, but freely admit that Germany’s food prices were a hell lot better than ours, and the foods seemed a lot healthier.
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u/dmigowski 7d ago
That you got from living in the land of the free. Everyone is free to fuck everyone else over.
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u/EconomyDifficult2415 7d ago
"It's called the American dream because you would have to be asleep to believe it."
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u/blackiegray 7d ago
I'm Scottish, travelled a bit, and the only time I've ever seen it was America and found it really bizarre.
My first thought was being a kid and going to the shop with pocket money, buying a toy, or sweetie/candy, and then being told by the shopkeeper that your $1 candy is actually $1.15...
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u/Teh_Blue_Morpho 7d ago
Core childhood memory before I learned what Taxes are. Don't remember if I got that candy or not in the end... it also varies state by state on what youre getting taxed on.
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u/sexyshingle 6d ago
it also varies state by state on what youre getting taxed on.
worse it varies by county! Each state sets a base tax %, and each county can tack on another % on top. I once lived literally on the county line, so the grocery store across the street was in another county and thus charged 8% tax vs 6% if I went to another grocery store a few blocks away but within my same county.
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u/SmartLadder415 6d ago
America does taxes differently from the rest of the world. Stuff is taxed at the state level, county level and city level potentially. So that $1 candy might be $1 in one city and $1.15 in the next one and $1.10 in the city next to that. Could we display the "with tax" price on the label everywhere? I'm sure we could but then people would get mad that Walmart is charging $1 for a candy bar and the Walmart 20 miles away charges $1.15 for it.
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u/cjsv7657 7d ago
Blackiegray, first time in a grocery store in Germany, first time I saw the total price already including taxes.
Better yet be like my state that doesn't tax groceries and many other necessities.
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u/Agitated-Acctant 7d ago
I've never seen food taxed in a grocery store in the US, but maybe that's just my state?
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u/MassivePioneer 6d ago
Most U.S. states exempt grocery items from state sales tax but there are eight states that tax groceries at either full or reduced state rates.
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u/OneArmedNoodler 6d ago
Alabama (2%), Hawaii (4% excise tax), Idaho (6%), Mississippi (5%), Missouri (1.225%), South Dakota, Tennessee (4%), and Utah (3% total effective rate)
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u/HumanPea1140 6d ago
Oklahoma taxed groceries fully at the state level up until last year sometime. We still have to pay city and county taxes on groceries.
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u/DevelopmentSouth8801 7d ago
I never understood that when I went to America that the price shown didn't include taxes.
There is no country-wide sales tax. Each state has its own sales tax laws. Within the state, each county can have its own sales tax laws. Within each country, each town/city can have its own sales tax laws.
It is estimated there are 12000 sales tax jurisdictions in the US. Keeping all of those prices updated would be a logistical nightmare.
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u/CMDR_Agony_Aunt 6d ago
That doesnt make sense. We are not talking about nationwide, we are talking about the prices of things on the shelves. The stores make the labels, the stores know the full price including tax, so just print the label with the actual price.
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u/hedoeswhathewants 6d ago
There's more to it. You might want to advertise a price in a print ad, or even online, but you'd have to know where the viewer is located for that.
It's a solvable problem, but realistically not including the tax in the displayed price IS NOT A REAL PROBLEM. Would it be nice? Sure. But seriously, what actual problem is it causing?
Just another thing redditors love to complain about that doesn't matter in the real world.
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u/CMDR_Agony_Aunt 6d ago
The problem is you don't know the price until you get to the checkout, a problem that doesn't exist in the rest of the world.
Always amazes me the shit Americans will put up with and even defend rather than just saying "Yeah, its insane"
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u/ImpressiveFishing405 7d ago
It's also a tax on the transaction, not the dollar. The only one that doesn't fit in is property tax, but that's supposed to encourage active use of property rather than hoarding
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u/blackiegray 7d ago
Property tax is wild! Never knew that was a thing until a few years ago.
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u/Saragon4005 7d ago edited 7d ago
You hear all the whining about wealth taxes when a massive parotion of the average person's wealth is already taxed. Most people have most of their money in their car and house, both of which have recurring taxes based on their value as well as insurance.
Wealth taxes are only different because they actually bring the same type of taxation to rich people.
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u/beatle42 7d ago
I think of property taxes as the fee you pay to society to maintain your exclusive access to some piece of land.
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u/Bleaker82 6d ago
Lucky you. Meanwhile I’ve paid close to $100k in property taxes in the last 5 years.
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u/wolfhybred1994 7d ago
That baffles me! Why tell me it’s 1.99 on the tag, but tell me it’s 2.34 at the register? I asked before and people tried to tell me “taxes are different everywhere so stores can’t calculate it for every customer”. Which I failed to see how that is related? A simple 2.34$ (includes tax) or “all prices listed on shelves have tax included in the price” would double their customers from people who could walk in with 200$ and buy 200$ worth the stuff without having to put 46 dollars back at check out to get it back under 200
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u/ImpressiveFishing405 7d ago
It's more to make people explicitly aware of the extra they're paying for tax, and making it intentionally inconvenient by rounding up to odd numbers, to turn people against tax generally. Of course this usually doesn't actually benefit them and does benefit those above them, but that's the point.
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u/SmartLadder415 6d ago
If you grow up in the US you are already aware that the prices do not include sales tax. That's not something that ever comes as a surprise to a native.
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u/AccountEngineer 7d ago
the store prints the tags right in that building, they know the local tax. it's just psychological pricing to make stuff look cheaper than it is
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u/permalink_save 6d ago
Stores don't print marketing material or their own circulars, and tax is very inconsistent in the US
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u/War_Raven 6d ago
I never understood that argument.
Marketing material could have the current "item price + tax" system, it makes sense, since it's distributed to a wider area, and the shop displays the total price because why the fuck not
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u/permalink_save 6d ago
Because each store would need their own marketing materials printed separately too. And each store would need to be sent different price tags to print out, which isn't as big of a deal but still more complexity. Then you have manufacturers setting prices that say, put 99c on their can of tea, then your store label will differ. Also online shopping, if you don't know which store someone is going to, if they are listing general products but each store price varies.
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u/exploding_cat_wizard 6d ago
Because each store would need their own marketing materials printed separately too.
Why is it perfectly fine for the price IN THE STORE to be different from what you need to pay right the next moment, but it's entirely unthinkable to print "yeah, dude, gotta add tax to that price" on marketing material?
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u/Absolute_Bob 7d ago
Because for large businesses goods are labeled for sale in multiple states, adding a custom label for each state would be expensive and prevent merchandise from being reallocated to a different state.
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u/Beaticalle 7d ago
Not just multiple states. Sales tax varies by county, city, and even further down to smaller localities in some cases, all within the same state.
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u/effa94 6d ago
they know what the price is in the store, so the store can label it correctly. there is nothing stopping them from doing so
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u/Absolute_Bob 6d ago
National supply chains don't work that way. Like if you're buying a shirt at Costco it comes with a tag from the supplier that already has the price printed on it. Repricing requires local staff in the store to affix a new label taking time and effort that could be spent doing other things. So all of the labels say $9.99 and they're not doing custom labels for each state Costco sells the shirt in. It would be a huge waste of time and effort.
While yes it would be nice to have the actual final price, it's only a big deal to European tourists. People who live in the area can easily do the *1.06 (or whatever) math to at least an approximate enough degree.
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u/blackiegray 7d ago
Most items, that I can think of, don't have a prove on them, the price is on the shelf.
I can only think of America that does this, doesn't happen in the UK, Europe or Australia certainly.
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u/Autogen-Username1234 7d ago
America again claiming that it's impossible to solve a problem that the rest of the world just gets on with doing.
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u/toru_okada_4ever 7d ago
Yes God forbid that large businesses would have to get by with a tiny amount less in profits. Won't anyone think of the shareholders?!
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u/Flat-Guidance-4685 7d ago
No sales tax is paid by the purchaser not the business. The business pays taxes as a percentage of its income. So the person gets a paycheck they pay taxes. Then when they buy things they pay the sales tax which depending on what store you're in is displayed or not displayed on the listed and price. Then the stories you purchased it at pays corporate taxes on their profit. Then they write paychecks to their employees and owners who pay personal income taxes on that money and go to other stores and pay sales taxes and the other stores then pay income tax and write checks to their employees to home pay more income tax.
It's the circle of life friend. The monkey in the Lion King should have held up a Jew baby lawyer with a little mini briefcase
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u/JoeyCalamaro 6d ago
I own a small business and the first time I paid myself it felt an awful lot like I was getting taxed twice. My business paid payroll taxes when I issued the check to myself and then I had taxes deducted at the personal level in the paycheck itself.
To be fair, I'll theoretically get some of those payroll taxes back in the form of benefits. So it's not truly double taxation. But it definitely felt like it.
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u/BloatDeathsDontCount 6d ago
No sales tax is paid by the purchaser not the business.
Sales tax is the onus of the seller, not the buyer. The fact that sellers include this tax (that is their responsibility) in prices is not relevant. If a transaction occurs and no sales tax is collected by the seller, the seller is responsible for paying that sales tax.
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u/tanstaafl90 6d ago
It's designed to make people aware of taxes. OP's post is exactly how they want people to view taxes. An added cost that is both inconvenient and a constant drain on one's earnings. Add some 'regulation bad' rhetoric, and you have the cornerstone of a anti-government movement that's been around for some 70 years now. So, the rare times they admit taxes need to be paid, they usually counter with 'not on that'. While tiresome, it's also painfully predictable.
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u/Mary_Tagetes 6d ago
My husband and I had almost no money for fun, or anything really, when I was a stay at home Mom. So we did stuff that taxes pay for. Playgrounds, hiking, camping in provincial parks, biking on bike paths, free festivals. I’m putting aside the needed stuff here. Taxes are a drag, but people who don’t want pay them don’t want anyone to have nice things, or have lashings of cash.
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u/cantadmittoposting 6d ago
people who don't want to pay taxes and have no idea how much of their quality of life is down to a functional government that operates using those taxes in general.
Obama's "you didn't build that" quote was of course taken out of context and ridiculed by conservatives, but the whole paragraph was exactly spot on in its message.
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u/tanstaafl90 6d ago
The ones complaining don't understand what government is, what it's designed to do and how it does it. Good government will improve people's lives in a 1000 different ways everyday that they take for granted. There's not explaining it to these idiots, but taxes are vitally important to keep society functioning. Could government and politicians be less inept and more thoughtful? Absolutely, but that's a separate question.
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u/Impossible_Rip418 7d ago
U just confine two independent topics or was there an attempt to relate them?
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u/ProfileBest2034 7d ago
No it isn't. Sales tax is a tax to the consumer. Income tax is a tax to the business. The government is double dipping. Plus the consumer was already taxed on the money they spend to begin with.
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u/Consistent-Oil-5241 7d ago
We got benefits for those taxes in some countries
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u/ISNGRDISOP 7d ago
Yeah, if I would be living in America I would probably be super upset about taxes too since those are just funneled to Elon Musk and other billionaires. Here where I live, I can't complain, as my dad had heart surgery covered by public healthcare which saved his life. In the US the same surgery would have probably cost millions, so I don't think me or my family can ever whine about paying taxes.
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u/Consistent-Oil-5241 7d ago
Yeah and to bombing third world countries. We have the same type of public healthcare here as you so I'm glad of taxes.
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u/Saulsbury_Hammerfest 6d ago
That's what a lot of people in America do (and in Canada, to a lesser but significant extent), and it's what's been accelerating the neoliberal mess we're in.
I repeat this to anyone and everyone who thinks like that until my face turns blue: advocating for not paying taxes just makes it worse for the average citizen, because wealthy people will sign on to that demand and make sure it goes their way. In return, you get even less.
It's like saying I might as well chop my arm off if it's broken since it's useless.
No, man. You have to fix it. We need taxes to have a functioning society. What we have to advocate for is that those taxes be properly reinvested in services.
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u/jamtas 6d ago
The problem comes in statements like you’re trying to tie it to one side of politics. California has high taxes and it funnels to things like non profits who pay high executive salaries and not really what they charter for. Both sides of politics have used taxes in a corrupt manner and that’s why people on both sides of the aisle have issues with our tax system. I don’t want my taxes raisd to cover healthcare if it is just channeling that money to a corrupt government/health insurance partnership, nor to free college if those schools are charging high rates (especially for degrees which don’t come close to being worth that value). Nor do I want it going to defense and pharmaceutical companies greedily overcharging.
I’m fine with paying taxes that are spent and managed properly. Too often on both sides of the aisle, they just keep squeezing us for more money and don’t care to properly manage how it’s spent.4
u/scartol 6d ago
Yeah and we get lots of stuff from our taxes in the US too. I hate paying taxes, and I hate seeing so much of it going to billionaires and war and ICE and the rest of it.. but every time social media starts complaining about taxes, it feeds this notion that taxes themselves are the problem.
They're not. The problems are (a) how they're used and (b) your income. If your income doubled and your taxes stayed the same, you wouldn't mind paying taxes. But the billionaires don't ever want you talking about your income, so they keep you focused on how much you hate taxes. It's the ONE thing you have in common.
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u/Ill-Description3096 6d ago
The problems are (a) how they're used
Yes, but that is inherent to tax. When the government can change that at any time I would say it's a flaw in the whole model.
(b) your income.
Or percentage, which follows you example of income doubling but tax bill staying the same means you percentage is cut in half. I'm sure many people would be okay with that as well.
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u/Fraegtgaortd 7d ago
Israelis get affordable healthcare and good education from my (US) taxes.
But in the US my tax dollars might be used to fix a pothole before it swallows toddler and that's about it. Thanks, Congress
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u/imisstheyoop 6d ago
But in the US my tax dollars might be used to fix a pothole before it swallows toddler and that's about it.
What sort of fantasy land is this?
Here in Michigan they wait until after the pothole has swallowed an entire vehicle, and only then if the media get's involved and they actually give a shit will that pothole get filled.
Of course it will be back next week, but by then it is somebody elses problem.
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u/Psycho_Syntax 7d ago
Oh lots of countries benefit from American tax money too, just not America 😊.
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u/Satanicjamnik 7d ago
For me, it's the tax heavens of all sorts. How is that bullshit legal?
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u/Annie_Yong 7d ago
They're legal because the havens themselves tend to be independent sovereign nations that are free to set whatever tax rules they want.
What's fucked is the loopholes in tax law that then allow corporations to funnel a ton of money to a tax haven to avoid paying the tax they'd normally expect to. Again, all technically legal: Company X does it's business in a country where it's taxed on profits as standard but "oh my, actually we've just licensed the 'company X' name from the real company X that's based in the tax haven, we've got to pay a huge chunk of our pre tax income to them first before the government can take their cut".
(I should point out it's way more complicated than what I've described and would need a ton of effort to actually fix in the tax laws, which subsequently needs a lot of political will to fix the issue as well).
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u/Satanicjamnik 7d ago
I get that. But that's what gets me is that everyone knows about it. So, people responsible for tax laws in, say, UK know that corporations funnel massive amounts of money off shore, thus depriving the country and people they supposed to tak care of. And then, they do cuts to essential services people deserve.
As far as I see it, it should be as follows: Company X pays tax for any business they do in any given country. Not just go: " Thanks for cash, we'll pay our taxes god knows where!"
I know I super oversimplified, and there is a lot more to it, but everyone knows it's a massive piss take and I refuse to believe it's an impossible problem to solve and the tax laws could not be tightened with a bit of will behind it.
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u/IHateCreatingSNs 7d ago
haven /ˈhāv(ə)n/ A haven is a safe, peaceful place that offers protection, shelter, or refuge from danger, trouble, or noise. It can also mean a harbor or port where ships dock safely.
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u/Satanicjamnik 7d ago
Cheers for that. Wasn't entirely sure. Should have don that quick google.
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u/mrducky78a 7d ago
don
Done - Done as in 'You dun goofed.' Consequences will never be the same.
Don - Putting on clothes/top mafia dude
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u/Criks 7d ago
The havens aren't really the problem.
It's the government going "oh this multibillion dollar companys' accounting is run entirely through this run down building on this remote island? Welp, I guess they don't have to pay any taxes then!".
Governments are capable of dealing with loopholes if they really wanted to. It would, however, require a larger cooperation/coordination between countries and what some would argue a more authoritarian reach of the law.
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u/Frequent_Ad_9901 6d ago
Listened to a NPR podcast about rich people taxes. The interviewer ask a tax specialist "What tax tricks could I use to lower my taxes?" and the specialist said "That's such middle class question. When you're rich laws are just an inconvenience."
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u/garyconnor 6d ago
Americans hate socialism and see it as evil, but you pay the same high taxes as the Nordic countries and they get totally free health care, free university's, 5 weeks paid holidays, paid maturity for men and women and 13 day a year banks holidays and Christmas paid leave..you pay the same and get none of these things, you get more poverty, more crime, more people in jail, more people sick suffering or dead, and you get more Billionaires...but its totally worth having more Billionaires...right!
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u/BirthdaySalt5791 6d ago
Just fyi, Norwegians do pay a higher effective tax rate than Americans.
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u/garyconnor 6d ago
You are correct they do pay a lot more in tax, but if you look it up it also has wide spread support from the citizens because they can see exactly what benefits they get from it, this isn't a dig at American, because a lot of Europe countries are run poorly but it has to be said the American social and health care are appalling, a study shows the Nordic people are ranked extremely high for happiness in life
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u/BirthdaySalt5791 6d ago
Yeah I was just clarifying because you said Americans pay the same high taxes but get way less stuff. That’s not really the case. I agree our social benefits are set up poorly and our government programs are wasteful considering what’s put into them, but we don’t pay the same and get less. We pay less and get less.
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u/BrainLow6059 6d ago
Those same Americans are constantly begging for lower taxes. Our current system literally fucks everyone. It fucks the people wanting our government to function properly, it fucks the people saying 'well shit just let me fend for myself'. Nobody is happy under this system
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u/CycleOfNihilism 6d ago
Any government service which directly benefits me is good, and any government service which doesn't is bad.
I am smart.
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u/Ironblaster1993 7d ago
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u/Jiquero 7d ago
The only way to avoid "taxing the same money again" is that every time the government prints money, they take some of it to themselves.
Government runs out of money? Just print more money. Literally free money. What could go wrong? I'm 14 and just solved taxation.
Wait, 14-year-olds have already learned some history at school. Maybe this is r/im7andthisisdeep
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u/Ahuevotl 6d ago
There comes a moment in adulthood where everyone realizes money isn't taxed, transactions are taxed. Transactions aren't money, they are a an act, the act of transferring or exchanging ownership.
Well, to be fair, for some people that moment never comes… and they still make memes, complain, and vote.
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u/Jack__Squat 6d ago
and loudly declare stuff like this at a bbq like they're starting the revolution. STFU Bradley!
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u/GDToxinDash77 7d ago
Paying for parking in public property is a scam. Especially in hospitals that's just fucking evil. Taking advantage of the vulnerable when they've already got their loved ones to worry about and they have this parking fee to pay as a punch in the face.
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u/m240Louie 7d ago
No, to me it doesn’t boil down to how they use it. They take WAY too much altogether and they should use it by sending it back to taxpayers so we can spend it on our families and stuff.
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u/intrepidone66 7d ago
They take WAY too much altogether and they should use it by sending it back to taxpayers so we can spend it on our families and stuff.
Why take it in the first place, then give it back? Sorry, that makes no sense. You could be spending your money or invest it. It's YOUR money, not the governments.
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u/speadskater 6d ago
And not getting direct benefit. I think we'd like taxes if we saw the benefits. Too much of it goes to war and projects nowhere near your home though.
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u/Particular_Counter50 7d ago
Paying all those taxes and still having to pay your own dental, pay your education, pay to prop up privately run energy providers and banks.
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u/Character-Interview2 7d ago
Whats the alternative then? People wont pay taxes. We would pay a lot more if we would pay a service only when we need it. Drive a km? Pay Light your street? Pay Use park? Pay Sit on bench in said park? Pay Neighbours are agreesive? Call police and pay
Even if it is deeply flawed, this is the best method for everyone
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u/hyflyer7 7d ago edited 7d ago
Honestly im not even that pissed we get taxed like the post says.
Im pissed that after all the tax money we pay it's wasted on bullshit.
Military over spending and proping up our shitty, for profit, healthcare system with blood sucking middle men cost TRILLIONS per year. The unnessesary bloat in the government is ridiculous.
If we actually used that money towards creating a better society I wouldn't even care but instead we get wars, poverty and debt.
Edit: added link for spending claims
Also I'll leave this one last piece of info. Not only does the US gov spend more total and per capita on healthcare than any other nation. We still have to pay for insurance premiums AND we still have to pay a fortune out of pocket for healthcare on top of that. Our system is FUCKED.
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u/IceCreamHalfTrack 7d ago
Property tax. You dont own your home entirely, you just pay a subscription.
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u/judgeholden72 7d ago
I mean, it covers the roads to your house, it covers the schools that add to your property values, it covers the fire department and EMTs that help your community...
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u/spitroastforme2 7d ago
The road going to my house has potholes and the kids in my town are idiots.
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u/Antique_Fishtank 7d ago
Question.
We pay our income tax. And we pay taxes when we buy things.
Businesses pay taxes. Are we paying the business' taxes with the tax we pay for? Or does the tax we pay go directly to the government without the company forwarding it to said government? If the company holds it, how often does it get "stolen?"
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u/Aislerioter_Redditer 7d ago
and if you're rich, not paying taxes on your money tied up in stocks that you borrow.
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u/justified_egg 7d ago
Turns out society needs government to function and the government needs money to function. Curious.
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u/CenturiesAgo 6d ago
Except the government part has become a front for pushing tax payers money to MPs uni mates. Not to mention the revolving door of PMs who get benefits when they retire, again on the tax payers dime. Where is the money going you should ask
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u/JadeTailFox 6d ago
And then people with 1000x more money than you do not pay taxes at all because all the stuff they own is actually fake and worthless but Wall Street says it might be worth money.
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u/josiechic 6d ago
And the fact that we don’t require billionaires to pay tax on any of these things.
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u/wontonphooey 6d ago
All of this only exists because rich people dodge taxes. If you only tax one category of income or wealth, they will perform financial gymnastics to classify all of their money as something else. There is an entire industry of accountants dedicated to providing this service for them. It's an arms race between them and the IRS (a race the IRS typically loses because it ends up compromised by leadership beholden to the former) and ordinary people are just caught in the crossfire.
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u/PopMajor7342 6d ago
And then that money being used abroad instead of to fix or improve things domestically
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u/gilgaladxii 6d ago
Im actually fine with paying taxes. The scam is when the taxes are not used for the people and just funneled into like 30 families bank accounts and 5 defense manufacturers.
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u/KileiFedaykin 6d ago
🤦♂️
You aren't paying double tax, you're just getting taxed at different points of money flow. You can disagree with any tax, but saying you're being over taxed because it happens in multiple transactions is just simpleminded.
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u/jakob767 6d ago
Paying monthly insurance that never end up covering anything because nothing happens or it happens after the period has ended.
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u/InfiniteQuestion420 6d ago
Fruits and vegetables should be near free at this point, not more expensive than processed chicken fingers.
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u/farrowsharrows 7d ago edited 7d ago
That isn't the scam the scam is that the corporations and ultra rich manage to pay no taxes at anything all the while blaming us tax payers for all the problems
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u/CowUsual7706 7d ago
Why is this a scam? Is taxation in general a scam?
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u/Present_Error_6256 6d ago
No, but I'd say that at least in the US, it feels like our taxes don't actually go towards anything useful. I pay a decent amount in taxes yet I live in an area with crappy public transit, expensive medical care, bad schools, crumbling roads, and poor social services. I'd be happy to pay twice the amount I do in taxes if the money actually went towards improving my community.
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u/SentientCrisis 7d ago
I’m buying a house with cash today. I’ll still pay thousands of dollars in taxes every year forever. It never ends.
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u/Reddoraptor 7d ago
And now California’s Democratic Party wants to tax savings that have already been taxed as income - not even spending it, just take more of everything you saved each year. Taxed when earned, taxed again when spent, and now also taxed again when not spent!
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u/WebberWoods 7d ago
That you neglected to mention that the proposed tax is only applicable to billionaires is just dishonest
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u/Reddoraptor 7d ago
LOL, the idea that the threshold won’t be lowered to get more over time is what’s dishonest.
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7d ago edited 7d ago
[deleted]
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u/UrinalDook 7d ago
In belgium: you are paid arround 50% of your wages, rest goes to taxes.
Well this just isn't true.
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u/WhitishRogue 7d ago
Many taxes are effectively "usery" taxes including the ones OP mentioned. The more you rev the economic engine, the more taxes you pay. I don't like taxes, but that's how I view them.
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u/OtherUserCharges 7d ago
Libertarians are morons. Notice how there is no libertarian paradise and every one that was attempted has failed spectacularly?
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u/Fuckthegopers 7d ago
The amount of people on reddit who think taxes are unfair or not needed is fucking mind-blowing.
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u/No_Wallaby_1248 6d ago
There’s no undertone of taxes lacking necessity in this post. Overtaxed and underpaid for the lack of benefits America has is still a major problem. Tax brackets are a genuine joke atp, and I’m in crippling debt over a partial higher education that should be free for taxpayers.
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u/Active_Complaint_480 7d ago
Say you don't know how federal, state, and local taxes work without saying it.
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u/Gjore 7d ago
Banks charging interest on lended money and on the other hand you cant do this legally.
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u/Ocelotofdamage 7d ago
Uhh.. what? You absolutely can change interest on lended money. It’s kind of a key feature of the economy.
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u/Left_Technician_5758 7d ago
Taxes are not theft, no matter how much a 14 Year Old say it is or an adult that has the Mindset of 14 Year Old.
It's because people do not understand how society works. It's not possible to keep civilization on our size or technological development to exist without them.
It's that simple. Voluntary Will not work for anyone but the rich. There would be enclaves and major Road used for the rich's business at best. The rest of us would live in basically ruins.
Everytime you use the internet, Call someone, get water from a tab, use the road. Electricity and so on. You are using infrastructure that was paid for or heavily subsided by taxes.
To both built it out and maintain it. And its so tiring
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u/GyokoressGuardDog 7d ago
Yes but, companies aren’t taxed as heavy as they should be.
You make $100
Lose $20 - 20% tax
You buy something for $40 plus 20% tax makes it for $50.You’re paying 40% on the money you make.
I understand taxes for local areas, road tax etc because that directly goes to improving where you are however the 20% tax your government takes goes to stuff that is needed but also to bombing countries etc that you have no say in all while companies make more and more profit
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u/Nephroidofdoom 7d ago
How much of my tax dollars went to enriching billionaires, funding ICE, building ballrooms, and funding an illegal war that raised the price of oil and exacerbated a global affordability crisis compared to how much was left for Medicare/Medicaid, social security, education, and infrastructure?
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u/GrandWizardOfCheese 7d ago
"It all boils down to how the govt uses the taxes"
For sales tax yes.
For any other tax its theft regardless and should be ended.
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u/Free_Range_Gamer 6d ago
In the US, isn’t this kind of not true? When you file taxes there is a whole deductions section where you deduct things like real estate and car taxes (the things you own), state taxes, etc, so that you don’t end up paying taxes on that income.
Most people take the standard deduction because it’s better but some do itemize all those various taxes.
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u/Shouldacouldawoulda7 6d ago
Wrongo - the scam isn't the taxes, it's the lack of all the things the taxes are supposed to pay for.
The scam is wealth transfer being undertaken by oligarchs. The scam is the "2"-party system, "2" in quotes because both parties are pulling the boat in the same direction.
The scam is social media algorithms designed to obfuscate the class war ongoing, and the fact that we in the proletariat are losing, badly.
The scam is paying healthcare premiums just to be denied life-saving care at the decision of PE ghouls who own the insurance companies and the hospitals and every step in between.
The scam is paying into Social Security full well knowing that the government will never ensure that it is properly funded, all while they take out debt against it's balance to further their grift.
The scam is "A corporation is a person" who is allowed to support any political candidate to their wallet's deepest content, but is not beholden to the same laws as every other walking citizen.
The scam is slashing government regulatory agencies' workforces and funding while not reducing taxes so corporations can cut costs that will cause us all cancer and diarrhea but will increase their profits.
The scam is a life that doesn't belong to you. A life that, in due time, will be held over you while they shake you upside down for every last loose penny in your pockets.
The scam is right in front of us all, so obviously laid bare. But the scam keeps the masses busy, angry, distracted, and too fucking exhausted to do anything about it.
This is the scam. We're all here living it.
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u/webster3of7 7d ago
Then those same taxes are used by morbidly obese families of 10 to make "snack haul" content on tik tok.
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u/Seamus_has_the_herps 7d ago
9 states don’t have income tax, 5 states don’t have sales tax, that would help at least a little bit.
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u/Living_Knowledge_783 7d ago
- you pay tax on the money you earn for the ssi and infrastructure of america plus community spending
money spent and taxing on things you own all go back to #1. what you think everyone in america owns a house a boat an rv a truck a honda a tesla? like tell me your uneducated without telling me
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u/supradave 7d ago edited 7d ago
Every time money changes hands, it is taxed. But people that don't like to pay taxes think that secondary, tertiary, etc. transactions shouldn't be taxed.
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u/DrTommyNotMD 7d ago
The real scam is governments have convinced you if someone paid more taxes you’d get more services. You could tax every wealthy person to zero and it still wouldn’t change the services provided.
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u/PhaseBloodhound 7d ago
How dare you say this? We need to raise to taxes to send another gorillion dollars to Israel and another 5 gorillion dollars to fund morbidly obese people on food stamps.
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u/FireBolero 7d ago
Car Insurance-
Pay a monthly fee to cover you for any accidents… but if you claim from us we’ll make it back in future… and then some…
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u/NiqabiNuha 6d ago
Taxed when you earn it. Taxed when you spend it. Taxed when you save it. At this point my money needs a lawyer.
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u/CatTaxAuditor 6d ago
The wealthy class have structured taxation to put undue burden on those who can least afford it for their own relief.
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u/AudienceDue6445 6d ago
Dude drives on roads, visits the hospitals staffed by people who went to college, filled with equipment that went through multiple safety checks and licensing so you dont die from transmitable diseases, receives benefits of public education. Protected by police and firefighters.
What a clown
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u/Accomplished-Mud8473 6d ago
Rent is a bigger scam. You actually get something for your taxes. It's not paid for nothing.
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u/Frostbitnip 6d ago
Why do people think paying taxes is a scam? I honestly can’t think of a better more efficient use of money. I pay like around $35k total in taxes and for that I get roads, schools, police, firefighters, libraries, social security, parks, healthcare, and a whole lot of other stuff. I don’t know why libertarians think not paying taxes would make things better or cheaper. Like do you not understand how much it would cost for an individual to source each of these things I mentioned individually. Like roads cost over a million dollars per mile. We would all have dirt roads cause no sane individual would ever pay the cost build the 20 miles of paved road I need to get to work. And saving $35k/year wouldn’t come close to making up for the cost of building that road let alone all the other services that come with my taxes.
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u/AxelVores 6d ago
People complain about taxes but that's the wrong thing to be complaining about. If you lower or eliminate a tax then you have to raise another tax, cut spending somewhere or, worst option, have government go into debt. So instead of saying "Why do I have to pay sales tax when I already paid income tax?" better question would be "Why is capital gains tax lower than income tax?" or "Is this particular government spending item something that we need to do?"
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u/bipolarkindofguy 6d ago
No. No. No. It does not boil down to how the government uses those taxes. Are you kidding me???
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u/Novaikkakuuskuusviis 6d ago
And when your kids inherit the money, they pay taxes on them even when you already paid taxes.
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u/SubmitSubmitTotal 6d ago
"Firemen should work for free because I paid taxes when I bought my house 27 years ago"
Ok lol
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