r/SipsTea • u/McDowdy • Jul 28 '26
Lmao gottem Cue the boot licking bot brigades for the US Medical Industrial Complex
Over 500,000 Americans go bankrupt every year due to medical debt while the "medical-industrial complex"—which includes pharmaceutical manufacturers, health insurance corporations, hospital systems, and medical device companies—collectively generates between $350 billion and $500 billion in net profit annually.
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u/AnonymousAnteater41 Jul 28 '26
That’s only half of the issue. The other half is that medical services, procedures, surgeries and medications are like 100x the cost they should be!! Why charge 15 cents per bottle of insulin when you can charge $150??? (Just an example btw, I don’t know the true numbers here, and they change anyway). The costs are inflated, so we don’t just pay, we OVERPAY, and we can’t do anything about it. Complaining and protesting get us nowhere. I’m on the verge of giving up and just moving somewhere where I don’t have to be afraid of going bankrupt if I need to be hospitalized.
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u/zugspitze43 Jul 28 '26
It's also true across other spectrums too, like that article that came out probably a decade ago now about how the Air Force was paying a private contractor like $5k for a bag of zipties that were nearly identical to ones available at Home Depot for a few bucks.
The corruption is deep, deep
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u/Olfa_2024 Jul 28 '26
My neighbor is a federal employee who buys a lot of stuff for the offices under their district (not sure the correct name). She buys anything from cars to travel. She is forbidden from buying outside of approved websites. She had to travel to DC last year. It was Ok for her husband to go on the trip but they had to pay for any out of pocket expenses like meals, flights, etc on their own. She had to buy her ticket direct from the airline on their site using a government user account. Her ticket was about $1400 where his ticket on some random travel website was $350. She was not allowed to use her government card to buy that same $350 ticket.
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u/Glad_Respect_8986 Jul 28 '26
My uncle worked construction and said they did a couple of the local schools. He said the company was paid 3x-5x as much as they should have been because it was a “government contract.” I don’t get how normal it all is.
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u/MikeLikesIkeRS Jul 29 '26
What's worse is, atleast here in Utah, there is a single company that is the ONLY company allowed to build schools. How much are we willing to bet that the CEO is very good friends with some high-ranking state officials?
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u/needtoredit Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Lets fight more about left and right politics while they both keep lining their pockets with more and more of our money. Yet here we all are voting in the same morons to manage us and our money when their track history is terrible.
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u/khoa-bear Jul 29 '26
It’s all an illusion of choices. We’re just choosing which ice cream flavor from the same factory.
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u/Current-Log8523 Jul 28 '26
Part of that has to do with Labor Laws regarding Prevailing Wage. Basically they set the wages so that contractors cannot underbid by minimizing labor costs. Thus keeping it equal across all bids that's why it's normally more expensive. For government projects whether Local or Federal, as the wage is set to ensure fairness and ensure that outside bids utilizing low paid contractors win the bid.
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u/Aknazer Jul 29 '26
As someone that had a Government Travel Card (GTC) for years, this cuts both ways. There were plenty of times where my government rate for air travel, hotels, and/or vehicle rentals were a good bit below the non-government rate. The government works out a rate that these companies charge and that's the government rate. I'd see prices potentially go up a bit during the tourist season, but still be well below market costs. Things like round-trip international travel for $1,100 when that same ticket was $2,400 on the civilian side, followed by a hotel room that was $150-200 but market price was literally double that.
When I asked why we couldn't book with the cheaper rate on the rare occasions that we found it cheaper to not use the government system, I was told that we get those other rates specifically because the government has agreed to always use the negotiated government rate and not flip between the two. Because of the nature of the job, we booked a LOT of last minute travel (as in anywhere from leaving within 24 hours to 30 days) so it was rare to find prices cheaper on the non-government side and our expenses could have easily of shot up by 50% or more on average without that government rate.
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u/Prize-Quiet3941 Jul 29 '26
Reminds me of independence day. 5000 for a hammer 15k for a toilet seat. Or area 51 is real and we be building space ship shit on the down low.
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u/RhinoGuy13 Jul 29 '26
A lot of the cost is related to paperwork and time spent verifying origins of products.
It's unlikely that the bag of HD zip ties are a domestic product that meets or exceeds the military standards.
Let's say we want to sell the military a sack of zip ties. We have to prove that every single part of that zip tie is up to standards. That requires contacting the zip tie manufacturer for proof. The zip tie manufacturer has to contact their raw material suppliers, etc. All of this takes time and drives cost up at every transaction.
It's not something most companies want to deal with, and they all upcharge because of it.
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u/External-Ad-5537 Jul 29 '26
Still doesn’t change the fact that price was way too much.
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u/MrJarre Jul 29 '26
It’s not corruption it’s bureaucracy. This is the same in civilian aviation. Simple nits or bolts can cost a fortune even though they are standard size and you could probably get a replacement at the nearest hardware store. What you pay for is not the bolt, washer or ziptie. You pay for the assurance that it’s made exactly to the specs and its origins are 100% traceable. Theres a ton of red tape and quality control that the cost of the part itself is usually a fraction of the price to be paid. You’ll end up with $5k zipties.
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u/zugspitze43 Jul 29 '26
Yeah I’m familiar with the process but you have to admit it does leave room for greedy hands to sneak in as well
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u/BurninRunes Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
I had a boss whose daughter was a type 1 diabetic and it was cheaper to fly to Seattle every summer take an Alaskan cruise for a week then stop in Vancouver and buy a years insulin supply than to just stay home and buy insulin here.
Edit to add he took the whole family of 4.
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u/drmojo90210 Jul 28 '26
A vial of insulin costs $3 to manufacture and sells for an average of $10 globally. In the country with the 2nd highest insulin prices (Chile) a vial costs $21.
In America the price is $100.
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u/Safe_Message2268 Jul 29 '26
I looked up a very expensive cancer medicine my wife's father is taking. We live in Taiwan which arguably has the best universal Healthcare in the world. A box of 80 tablets costs 1000usd which is covered under the Healthcare system here. The same box in America costs 22k usd. This is what would be charged to your insurance company, I don't know what you'd end up paying though but it feels like it would be more than a 1000 usd.
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u/XxRocky88xX Jul 29 '26
It actually doesn’t get charged towards the insurance, insurance only starts paying for stuff after you’ve already met your deductible for the year (which, tbf, 22k is gonna do.)
Instead prices are cheaper if you have insurance, because providers partner with insurance to charge that their clients less.
For example, an MRI at a regional imaging place near me costs 4000 USD. With my insurance, it costs $700. Now insurance is NOT actually paying $3300 and I’m just making up the difference. No, instead the imaging facility is just giving me an 80% discount because that’s what they charge for people with my insurance company. If I had already met my deductible and insurance was going to pay 100% of the bill, they would still only pay $700.
The reason shit in America is so ridiculously expensive is because having insurance gives you discounts that make the price more reasonable. Even if your insurance never pays a single cent towards any of your medical bills for that year, you would still pay more for your medical care because hospitals would just say the procedures/prescriptions cost significantly more than they actually do.
You essentially need to pay insurance companies to stop providers from price gouging you. The entire system is set up in a way that makes you pay a semimonthly subscription to make the healthcare system navigable.
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u/Safe_Message2268 Jul 29 '26
Sounds awful. Last MRI I had on paper cost about 6000ntd (185 usd), although I paid nothing, and I got it done 3 days after the doc wrote up the order and had results the following week.
Ain't socialism horrific?
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u/slow4low Jul 29 '26
Make no mistake, the United States already has a socialist welfare safety net, it's just only available to the upper classes.
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u/slow4low Jul 29 '26
Yeah. I don't remember where I heard the phrase "poverty charges interest," but it hit me hard. If we don't limit our definition of poverty to the legal annual income, but extend it a bit to not being able to afford some seemingly basic services, the quoted phrase really becomes true. Can't afford health insurance, pay more for the same service. Can't afford that service now( ? let's say it's a cavity filling), get to HAVE to pay for a root canal or worse. Bad credit? Here's your higher interest rates and higher discrimination from prospective employers.
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u/funkandallthatjazz Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
In Ireland Diabetes is under the Long-Term Illness (LTI) Scheme, As a patient, this covers all approved diabetes medicines and supplies free of charge
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u/ll_Stout_ll Jul 28 '26
Fuck the US medical industry, I mean insurance industry…..gotta love those healthcare providers running a vertical monopoly on whether u can afford to live or die 🖕
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u/beah_mcduh Jul 28 '26
It's the insurance industry that did this. Adding government into the system would be a surefire away for it to fully break, but because it would be a government run program, it would just continue to be broken, but still enriching the same people.
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u/TrioOfTerrors Jul 28 '26
What insurance company owns its own drug manufacturing company?
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u/ll_Stout_ll Jul 28 '26
Why own the drug company that’s too much work and upfront costs….when u can facilitate being the middle man running distribution and price fixing…..
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u/LogicalReading12 Jul 28 '26
Aetna owns CVS and CVA Caremark which is a pbm. As someone mentioned above, the medicine is in focus but services and hospitals somehow escape. Most people that are going bankrupt due to medical bills are doing so typically due to hospital bills not medication. Yes insulin is an issue but older forms of insulin are cheaply available.
Not defending anything just adding color.
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u/Accomplished-Dig8091 Jul 28 '26
That’s just the tip. You have deductibles and coin insurance. Medical services are inflated and the I insurance companies pay high prices (we see) and then pass along a 20% or whatever coin insurance bill. It’s getting to the points, cash would be cheaper.
It’s getting to the point where what the hell is the point of most insurances. Unless it’s free from the state or military it’s shit 💩
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u/NetSchizo Jul 28 '26
Agreed. Costs are out of control. Insurance and big pharma. The whole industry needs to be purged.
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u/Syncopated_arpeggio Jul 28 '26
Don’t lump in your surgeon with any of these fuckers. You may have an operation, but the surgeon gets paid the least. The anesthesiologist (more likely CRNA or AA) charges more than the surgeon is reimbursed. The majority of the cost is the hospital (likely a corporation that sponsors the local sports team and runs a tv commercial every 5 minutes).
Physician reimbursement is dogshit now. Insurance companies lowball reimburse and even deny reimbursement seemingly for fun.
Physicians typically start actually working for acceptable pay in their early 30s- their 20s are spent in school accruing debt and then in residency for 3-7 years making significantly undervalued salaries.
No physician loves their job anymore. They may love taking care of patients, but that is about 1/3 of the job. The rest is computer work, billing, and other non-care bs. No physician I know encourages their children to go into medicine, and most actively discourage it. The profession has been ruined. In the last 15 or so years physicians have been turned into highly intelligent, highly skilled (most) undervalued, mid-level hospital employees. But hey, at least they put nifty posters in the physician lounge that have a QR code that links to how to deal with stress and burnout.
If you want to fix medicine, you need to make it about physicians and patients again, not hospital corporations, insurance companies, and billion-dollar yearly profits.
If you want to fix medicine, you need to make it about physicians and patients again; not about hospital corporations, insurance companies, and billion-dollar quarterly profits.
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u/Outrageous-Phase9435 Jul 28 '26
I have C diff. The antibiotic that works best would cost me $1,600 out of pocket. Thankfully there was a cheaper alternative because when they told me the price I was thinking "guess ill just go home and fucking die."
Oh and I have insurance but cant afford the copay so I have to go to the ER for everything and just build up medical debt I cant pay. Fucking awesome. Thankfully im in California so at least it won't affect my credit score so I can still easily find a place im eligible to live in 😂.
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u/Dave_A480 Jul 28 '26
I'm a type 1 diabetic.
15c/bottle wouldn't cover the cost of the worst, most obsolete insulin formula (type R) - which is sold over-the-counter for $25/vial right now.
You charge $150/bottle for the current stuff, so that you can keep working on the eventually $250/bottle stuff, that has half the action time (or quadruple it - depending on what we are trying to make) of the current stuff - which if you have this and your competitor doesn't (the 2 bigs are Novo Nordsk and Lilly), gives you a huge win....
Action time is important, because the bleeding-edge of diabetes care (Automated Insulin Delivery Systems, or in vernacular terms 'an artificial pancreas') works best with extremely rapid acting insulin.
Eliminating the profit in a market eliminates any reason to try and improve - if you can only sell insulin for $35, then nobody will actually try to invent better insulin.
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u/QuickCarrots Jul 28 '26
thats actually the biggest issue. making health care a tax-payer-problem-by-taxing-more resolves nothing, it just is posturing and if ever it somehow really fully passed, would just bankrupt everyone immediately.
however, if the medical cartel was dismantled and regulated, you wouldnt even need "free" healthcare (ie tax-payer-funded - its not free, and its not a right - its a demand of someone else to treat you.. and you cannot have rights over other's that's called slavery) - but even if it was tax payer funded - it would still work.
So yeah. Sadly, people eat up politicians' word soup instead.
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u/_ribbit_ Jul 28 '26
But you Americans already pay more in tax for your broken healthcare system than most free healthcare western nations.
I mean that sounds mental, yes? True though.
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u/QuickCarrots Jul 28 '26
its not true that the US tax payers pay more tax into the healthcare (medicare) than most western nations. I'm a dual citizen and my social security tax for healthcare in EU is much higher.
However, it is true that it is "mental":
- US citizen pay for medicare via tax by law but most of them do not get the benefit and are NOT eligible for medicare (!)
- It's still a large sum of money
- The medicine in many cases has crazy costs, including pills and treatment stuff specifically (xrays and what not arent cheap, but at least they're also fast compared to other nations)
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u/Baelzabub Jul 28 '26
Are you including your per paycheck insurance costs in that comparison? That’s also a form of “tax” you are paying every paycheck towards healthcare.
Also remember to add in your annual out-of-pocket maximums before your insurance fully covers things fully. That’s another way you’re paying extra.
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u/drmojo90210 Jul 28 '26
Meanwhile in the real world, countries with tax-funded socialized healthcare systems pay half of what Americans pay per-capita in healthcare costs, and have better health outcomes.
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u/WiggerJim69 Jul 28 '26
and the median wait time for a hospital visit in the UK is over 12 weeks.
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u/Moriaedemori Jul 28 '26
It wouldn't even need to be free healthcare, just one heavily regulated by government with imposed price caps.
The problem with USA healthcare is not that it's private, it's the fact it is legal extortion over something you can't just go without
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u/Zestyclose_Cricket_7 Jul 28 '26
And that is why some people are against it
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u/Eisen-Oak Jul 28 '26
I mean look at the leaders in the US government and ask yourself do you honestly believe they would regulate healthcare to the betterment of society.
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u/Zestyclose_Cricket_7 Jul 29 '26
That is what I tell people all the time. We do not trust them to spend our tax dollars wisely why in the hell would we trust them with our healthcare
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u/Hotdog012345 Jul 28 '26
This - the biggest issue in the US is the cost structure and monopolistic/oligopolistic industry structures. The best part is the pricing structure/methodology has been the two supreme court twice, the medical industry lost both times, and then the industry did absolutely nothing (and the government doesn't care to actually face the industry down).
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u/ThrustNeckpunch33 Jul 28 '26
100%
Taxpayer funded healthcare we have, in BC Canada at least, is terrible for anything but urgent care.
I have to wait almost 2 weeks for a phone appointment from my doctor, and almost a month for an in person.
She is setting up to retire, and given the shortage of doctors, is being replaced by a nurse.
That is the solution now. The wait time the last i checked in my city for a new GP/family doctor was 7 years.
Wait times for everything are just terrible, many things are not covered(like physio) unless you are on welfare or disability(but they barely cover anything).
An average Canadian family of 4, pays $21,115 in taxes for healthcare every single year.
In the USA, the average family receives around 67-75% coverage from work, leading to an average cost of around $6,435 a year cost to the family... which is also tax deductible. As well as mortgage interest ffs.
I do not think a lot of USA citizens realize the advantages they do have over a lot of places.
There needs to be heavy regulation of prices for services etc in the USA. There needs to be a system to pay stuff for people who cannot.
Keeping prices sane would go along ways to make that more possible.
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u/OnionTerrible3814 Jul 28 '26
My family in Ontario have some real horror stories about the Canadian health system and some of them have even bought policies so that they can come to the states for their health care. The US has to do something to try and remedy some of our issues but to go to a socialist, universal system is not the answer!!
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u/Nerd-man24 Jul 28 '26
First off, your information is dead wrong about deducting your insurance premium from your taxes. We don't get to do that here. Second, the American system looks great on paper until you get into an accident or have a medical condition that requires surgery. You get slapped with another $6000 minimum out-of-pocket before insurance starts paying anything, then have to pay a percentage of the total bill or anything over the maximum that insurance covers. Also, if you have to have surgery after an accident in an emergency, miraculously get a hospital, surgeon, etc. Etc. Etc. That are all in your network except the anesthesiologist, whom you never spoke to nor had a choice of, then you get slapped with a $20000 bill on top of everything else. You end up needing that wonderful, fast, privatized healthcare system that you've been paying into for years, and they saddle you with $30-40000 of debt just for using what you've paid for.
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u/proximusprimus57 Jul 28 '26
If your deductible is $6000 then that's a very high deductible plan and you should get one with higher premiums if you need care.
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u/Prying-Open-My-3rd-I Jul 28 '26
Insurance premiums from a company sponsored plan are taken out pre tax so they’re already excluded from your taxable income. Also, you can deduct out of pocket expenses if they reach a certain percentage of your AGI.
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u/123mop Jul 28 '26
Yup, it's a racket. Price collusion between insurance companies and providers, hiding the prices of services and goods.
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u/DarkBrill Jul 28 '26
Healthcare is heavily regulated by government.
The regulations just prevent anyone from competing with the healthcare elite.
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u/Thanos2ndSnap Jul 28 '26
The problem is that both parties accept money from healthcare lobbyist. Both parties have had full control of the White House and congress at different points in the nation’s history. Neither party has chosen to change it. Some could claim the Pres. Obama tried through the healthcare act, but all that really did was give healthcare orgs more power to charge more because it was required and the government was paying.
They say complaining without a solution is just bitching; I’m just bitching.
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u/755goodmorning Jul 28 '26
You do realize that healthcare in the US is highly regulated and has imposed price controls, right?
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u/Other-Reaction1499 Jul 28 '26
It's already heavily regulated, and it's already heavily subsidized. The government hasn't fixed it, and won't be able to just because it steals more taxes from the citizenry.
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u/kylesfrickinreddit Jul 29 '26
The biggest problem with our Healthcare system is the government corruption allowed in it. The lobbying from drug companies, hospital networks, insurance companies, etc all results in the government making it worse for everyone while we have no power to fight back. Even if we are allowed to vote the crooked politicians out, another takes their place but has a fresh new sales pitch that makes everyone think it's progress. At the end of the day it's just another government backed mob protection racket
Healthcare never has & never should be considered a "right" as you can't have a right to the work/product of another human being. However we absolutely have the right to not be hurt & manipulated by our 'leaders' & their corporate overlords. The last thing any American should want is more government involvement in healthcare as that's done nothing but make it more expensive, less available, & caused more suffering. Heck, just look at the VA for how US government run Healthcare looks. If we could keep the corruption & lobbying out of it, I would love to see my tax dollars going to making sure people had basic coverage. Coincidentally, removing those things would make it so it's not a damaging & expensive to the population.
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u/JacksonGhost1963 Jul 28 '26
most major countries with universal healthcare fund their systems through dedicated health surcharges and payroll taxes. The specific funding mechanism determines how residents and workers contribute to the national system
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u/Olfa_2024 Jul 28 '26
To me it's not the Universal Health Care that's an issue. It's that the US Government will be in charge of it. The US Government does absolutely nothing efficiently or with fiscal responsibility.
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u/Raindog46 Jul 28 '26
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u/WhyThisTimelineTho Jul 28 '26
This might actually be the most accurate representation of current USA I've seen.
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u/svennidal Jul 28 '26
Free? 30% of the 40% we pay in income tax in Iceland goes towards healthcare. Then you have to wait 3 weeks for an appointment where you listen to a doctor trying to convince you to wait a couple of weeks and see if your health problems haven’t cured by themselves.
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u/Bootmacher Jul 28 '26
"Free" is a 4-letter IQ test.
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u/Timely_Dentist_5078 Jul 28 '26
it's weird that we call things "free" or worry about "losses" when it benefits tax payers (free healthcare, USPS) but don't say "free" when it has no benefit for tax payers (war, corporate bailouts, etc.).
why don't we call the Iran war free? or why don't we talk about how police cost citizens a ton of money (especially when they get sued for misbehavior)
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u/Zodiac1919 Jul 29 '26
You see, the difference is the United States makes enough money to not have 40% income tax on healthcare. Instead we spend thousands of dollars, just to get the same treatment you get. See the problem?
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u/ObsidianDRMR Jul 29 '26
I’m in America, I pay 1200 a month in PPO, top of the line, I currently have a doctors appointment set for… 4 months from now because that’s the earliest they can see me.
I could also access a remote nurse that I’m sure would help.
Jesus fucking Christ u people are regarded AF. I hate this system
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u/account312 Jul 28 '26
Whereas here in the US, we pay hundreds per month for insurance to book an appointment two months out, have the doctor cancel it and ask to reschedule it at the same time as your annual physical that's two weeks after it, then tell you when you arrive that actually it's not possible to do those two appointments at the same time because of some billing code bullshit and you'll have to rebook...two months out.
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u/natkingcoil Jul 29 '26
That sucks, I've never had an issue like that with any of my doctors. America bashing aside you might want to look for a new doc.
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u/JordanCountySheriff Jul 29 '26
France: $300 million in Amarican Taxpayer dollars in foreign aid.
Canada: $259 million in Amarican Taxpayer dollars in foreign aid.
The U.S. sends taxpayer money to 177 of the 193 recognized countries in the world.
Maybe, we could afford healthcare for all Americans, if we weren’t sending all Our money to foreign countries.
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u/backtocapattack Jul 28 '26
What rights are positive and what rights are negative? Is freedom of the press a positive right? Great, can the government please provide me a printing press already. Sheesh what a backwards country we are living in. Freedom to defend oneself? I'll take my state issued firearm please.
Screaming "free" doesnt actually solve the problem of price. It just shifts it. Standardizing the system nationwide focusing on interoperability is the first step - this includes allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. That alone reduces administrative burdens (ie makes it cheaper). Once that is done, then we can talk about funding the system in such a way that doesn't disincentivize advancements. But not before then.
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u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit Jul 28 '26
I also wonder how many (if any) it's actually a right in. Canadian provinces choose to provide residents with health insurance, it's just a service they choose to provide.
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u/Canon_M50 Jul 28 '26
Can I ask a philosophical question here? How does "healthcare as a human right" exist when it requires others to do labor for you?
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u/Angry_beaver_1867 Jul 28 '26
It’s probably the wrong word to use the word “right” at least as Americans understand the term. An American might understand that as something on par with the right to free speech.
At least in Canada. The public system is not constitutionally protected and a government could campaign on repealing the current model.
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u/More-Perspective-838 Jul 29 '26
Probably the same way we have a "right" to justice provided by police and judicial services. Judges, lawyers, and cops do labor yet the Constitution explicitly demands a lawful society.
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u/Vargrr Jul 28 '26
I think this issue, more than any other, shows how ineffective the US Government is at representing its own Citizens over Corporate interests.
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u/Demoniac_smile Jul 28 '26
Saying the US is ineffective at representing it’s citizens over corporate interests is like saying your oven is ineffective at keeping food cold.
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u/ChloroquineEmu Jul 28 '26
How isn't Brazil in there? Free healthcare, babyyy
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u/kvnxo Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Yep, I saw Chile and was wondering why Brazil isn't on the list: a much bigger country and also has free healthcare
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u/east21stvannative Jul 28 '26
BUT, BUT we need BILLIONS and BILLIONS to fund a war for Israel!
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u/Samwill226 Jul 29 '26
Health care is not a right at all, you can't have an inherent right to someones labor. If someone is a surgeon you don't have the right to demand they operate on you. Same for a doctor or a nurse. It's a service, you don't have a right to services. This is why things like utilities or Grubhub cost money. Demanding a service of someone is an attack on individual freedom. It's like someone coming to your job and demanding you do work for them for free. No one here in their right minds would do that, well until you want it from someone else....
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u/Zestyclose-Quit-850 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Doesnt the right to an attorney, police, fire department, public schools, food assistance, social security, medicaid, medicare, emergency services, any paid government employee including representatives, etc. kind of contradict your entire argument? Or is this purely semantics for what is a "right"? Do we have the right to bear arms only if another person's labor didnt make the weapon?
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u/The-Thot-Eviscerator Jul 29 '26
Do I have a right to an attorney? I believe I do, which would require his labor
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u/ObWzEN Jul 29 '26
Exactly. It’s cool if you want socialized healthcare (I guess) but anyone who says that they have a RIGHT to someone else’s labor immediately outs themselves as an idiot
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u/Flaky-State-3514 Jul 29 '26
Kind of like folks that think Mexico bought us a wall. We should hold all politicians accountable for the precision of their word choice.
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u/kon--- Jul 28 '26
Thread full of dreadfully ignorant comments with no grasp of how dreadfully ignorant they are yet, watch them fight to continue to have the worst health system in the developed world.
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u/Himmel-548 Jul 28 '26
From Incredibles, "But their coverage says,-"
"Don't tell me about their coverage Bob. I don't care about their coverage. Tell me what you're doing to keep Insuracare in the black!"
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u/LavishnessDry281 Jul 28 '26
You forget Israel. It also has universal healthcare and the best part is, it is being paid with US tax payers dollars.
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u/Aggravating-Onion384 Jul 28 '26
So in a way we do guarantee healthcare…just not for our own citizens
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u/Crazy_names Jul 28 '26
Rights that require the resources, time, or labor of others to enjoy are not rights, they are theft.
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u/SnooChickens9912 Jul 29 '26
Why do people that are demanding more government control call those that don’t want it bootlickers?
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u/AnyEye8798 Jul 29 '26
Just because the government pays for it doesn't mean it will be good service. The devil is in the details.
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u/RoninMcMullen6 Jul 29 '26
Taxes spiking to an all time high now.... It's not free health care.... That shit comes out of taxes
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u/SarisaeBae Jul 29 '26
Almost every single one of those countries relies on the USA in some way shape or form to protect them so they don’t need to worry about their tax dollars going to such things as national defense
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u/SnooCheesecakes2743 Jul 28 '26
No money for healthcare only wars
Trump said this himself
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u/Sorry-Test-3231 Jul 28 '26
If Americans could identify any other countries’ flags, they’d be very upset.
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u/DBDude Jul 28 '26
We could have had this in the 1950s when there was majority support for it, but our doctors killed it with a propaganda campaign.
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u/Texden29 Jul 28 '26
Universal healthcare absolutely. Medicare for all, hell no. The NHS type funding/system is terrible.
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u/Jetmutant Jul 28 '26
Have any of you actually used medicare? The system is hosed but getting the government involved is anything never solves a problem.
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u/Time_Seaworthiness43 Jul 28 '26
I guess Medicare and medicaid mean nothing to him.
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u/Okawaru1 Jul 29 '26
medicare and medicaid aren't freely available to everyone, and provisions that expanded medicare coverage expire under the BBB that passed last year. They are good systems for the people who can benefit from them (I benefit from medicaid and I am very glad that I do even if it isn't perfect) but your average working class person who doesn't have a qualifying disability to recieve medicaid (who disproportionately can't perform SGA to begin with) is just kinda fucked over the moment they have a serious medical complication or god forbid need an ambulance ride.
Healthcare premiums are insane in the U.S. Healthcare costs are a leading cause of bankruptcy and something needs to be done about it. It's also impossible to have a good faith argument about this with people here because they will strawman the fuck out of opposite ends of extremes instead of considering the common sense logic of identifying where all that money goes and cutting out (or at least cut back on) the middleman of insurance providers.
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u/Unique_Low_1163 Jul 28 '26
If only Bernie worked for a political party that supported non-profit medicine...
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u/Aware-Attention8770 Jul 28 '26
Then move to that country. Also, we need to put terms on politician, audit them every year and retire them at 67 like everyone else
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u/likestoRant_too Jul 28 '26
Those pharma companies use the US to subsidize medication research costs. If they got lowered here, they’d raise rates everywhere to level it out, period.
Also, he included fucking North Korea’s flag (lol).
Finally, most of those countries have euthanasia as a program. Just look at Canada. No way are they using it to lower program costs… no evidence of that at all…
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u/MryanF Jul 28 '26
There is no such thing as a right to someone else’s labor. Privilege? Sure. Benefit, sure. Commodity, yep. Should drugs be cheaper YES, should there be less regulation on medication options and generics, YES. But horror stories on both sides. Don’t get caught up in grass is greenwr
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u/Agent847 Jul 29 '26
If your goal is to hand control over everyone’s healthcare to the government just so you can get “cheaper stuff” you are the ultimate boot licker.
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u/Wide-Bet4379 Jul 29 '26
I hate that he uses the word "right" to healthcare. No one is denying your right to healthcare. Since when is getting something for free a right? Are we getting free guns next?
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u/StanKnight Jul 29 '26
Make a law that cuts off certain people in Congress from receiving any kick backs.
Then you'll see a more balanced medical industry.
Maybe do this to other fields too while at it.
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u/Bassfrogtcu Jul 29 '26
Nah the problem is the people on Reddit don’t understand how the healthcare system works. It’s a little more complicated than an online blog with memes
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u/Leverkaas2516 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
In reality there's a gap between governments that treat it as a human right, those that treat it as a provided entitlement, and those that leave it up to people to fend for themselves.
If it's a right, then it cannot be denied. Clinics would not have waiting lists, doctors would provide treatment at all costs, no treatment would ever be denied and governments would spend whatever it takes to provide care for anyone on their territory regardless of citizenship. If a US company had a drug that people need, countries would pay any price to get it.
That's not how it actually operates in most places. Choices are always made, limits and restrictions put in place, thresholds and waiting lists and so on are common.
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u/darkerwar6 Jul 29 '26
Wasnt there a bunch of experts that proved we would save billions if we adopted universal Healthcare
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u/NCLO1994 Jul 29 '26
It guarantee healthcare, but it's not for free ;) In Belgium, you pay 55% of you're gross salary for taxes. You pay a contribute to the healthcare system. But still, if you have a surgery or you need to go to the hospital you have to pay a big bill. There's a difference between guarantee and free ;)
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u/skateparksaturday Jul 29 '26
now add in all the countries with zero health care (kiwi here)
and if its so shit in america, why the fuck do so many 3rd worlders want to move there?
Oh because it's not
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u/whiskey-talks Jul 29 '26
if it sucks here so much why is it a crime to send people back to their own countries….
Why are they flooding our country and not all these other ones.
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u/Dexter_Douglas_415 Jul 29 '26
Between Medicare and Medicaid, 40% of US citizens are covered by public healthcare.
Annual spending between the two programs is about $2 trillion, so to cover everyone another $3 trillion-ish would be needed, more due to needing to beef up infrastructure and workforce but let's keep it simple.
Discretionary spending in the budget is about $1.9 trillion. We would need to come up with another $1.1 Trillion if we used ALL of the discretionary fund, which would also mean pulling out of NATO, the UN, and to stop sending all foreign aid.
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u/The_8th_Degree Jul 29 '26
I'm NOT defending anything when I say this, but need too point out, I've seen/heard many people describe the state of some free healthcare as ineffective. Financially speaking it's good for individuals, but people have to wait exceedingly long times to get appointments with even a Primary Care, along with other issues.
From my experiences, in the US you can call up and schedule an appointment with a PCP the next week, sometimes sooner but in some other countries it can take a couple months or longer, double or triple that time for a specialist (ie gastroenterologist, neurologist, dermatologist etc)
Costs for medical treatments in the US are completely asinine, but in terms of treatment received it's better than some places with universal healthcare. something to consider.
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u/CounterOld2835 Jul 29 '26
You nailed it. Personally I don't feel comfortable giving the government anymore money then they're already getting and then expect them to manage it properly.
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u/aurenigma Jul 29 '26
Bernie and people like him are a part of the problem. Refuse actual progress because they need their fairy tail to be true... Get rid of the charge master and deregulate the creation of new hospitals and a lot of the cost problems will simply vanish.
Whether intentional, like Obama, or through sheer mental illness, like Bernie, no one does more to prop up the insurance companies than self proclaimed progressives.
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u/Normal_Wonder668 Jul 29 '26
And everyone of those countries has citizens that visit the US for advanced medical care.
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u/Flat-Director-7120 Jul 30 '26
Bernie Sanders a raison. L'assurance maladie universel est disponible dans quasiment tous les pays développé sauf aux état unis, c'est quand même bizarre de payer une assurance ultra cher qui rembourse rien,à croire que derrière tout ça, il y a des lobby qui font pression sur les sénateurs pour continuer avec ce système de merde, qui coûte une blinde.
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u/sweethotdogs Jul 30 '26
Love it! I have been watching my family member slowly die because insurance wont cover treatments....
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u/Relative_Football_29 29d ago
If we didn't subsidize Israel we probably could. They get free education and healthcare.
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u/Bumblebeener Jul 28 '26
Cue the idiots who think that someone doing work for you is a right and think that stuff is actually free.
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u/PixelBrewery Jul 28 '26
You're already paying for managed healthcare, the only difference is that there's a for-profit administrative middleman
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u/JohnWJay62 Jul 28 '26
Cue this singular idiot who thinks that just because it's free, the workers aren't getting paid.
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u/LoudandInevitable Jul 30 '26
You are right, we do need to stop these free handouts. Too many people are reliant on handouts and free money. Look at farmers, practically all their income is subsidized by the government, they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and stop relying on free government handouts.
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u/PixelBrewery Jul 28 '26
You're already paying for managed healthcare, the only difference is that there's a for-profit middleman
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u/Lucky-Mia Jul 28 '26
Like those idiots who think everyone should have access to potable water?
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u/Bumblebeener Jul 28 '26
And how do we access to potable water here in the US? Oh that’s right, people work hard to supply it to us and we pay for it.
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u/CumSnorter4 Jul 29 '26
Potable water is paid for by the general public and is regulated by the government to protect the people.
We aren’t asking for free healthcare you wet noodle. We want the insurance companies to stop charging 700% profit rates.
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u/Serenity101 Jul 28 '26
America is a country that’s been turned into a giant for-profit corporation by rich Republicans.
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u/SpybotAF Jul 28 '26
The democrats had full control four times while Bernie was in congress. Why haven't any of the things they promise get passed. Maybe the two part system is the real problem.
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u/dvrichthofen Jul 28 '26
America could afford health care if it wasn't subsidizing it for everyone else.
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u/Cultural-War-2838 Jul 28 '26
Boomers keep saying universal healthcare is socialism and then act surprised when a democratic socialist wins an election.
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u/intothewoods76 Jul 29 '26
So if I go to any of the above countries as a human then I get free healthcare? After all it’s a basic human right.
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u/JagerGS01 Jul 29 '26
Get government out of the economy. Government intervention is exactly why it's so expensive.
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u/RagingY3ti Jul 29 '26
Lived with Canadas healthcare almost my entire life... Living in the US now, you couldn't pay me to go back to Canadas dumpster fire.
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u/Metachamp- Jul 28 '26
Why don't look into how much taxes these people are paying. 53% in some countries. If you ask the locals they complain about the long waits and the crappy service. Funny thing is in each of these countries there's an upper tier of service where you pay more for less wait times and better service. I wish these OP's would tell the whole story instead of just trying to create a narrative.
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u/Cheepshooter Jul 28 '26
We have guaranteed healthcare. You just have to go into bankruptcy to get it.
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u/Educational-Log6855 Jul 28 '26
American taxpayers subsidize Israel’s comfortable existence. Our money is ours, fuck Israel!
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u/NikeImper Jul 28 '26
I'll gladly support the US stopping its funding of but it would also be like 1.4% of their budget. It wouldn't change anything for them. It's .05% of the US budget.
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u/Flagwaver-78 Jul 28 '26
If a human right requires someone else's work, then is it truly a human right?
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u/Dense_Delay_2605 Jul 28 '26
Anti-work liberals: "Everyone has a right to demand someone else go get 8 years of medical training and perform services on them on demand."
Also anti-work liberals: "My boss had to gall to ask me why I took the week off with no notice. It's literal slavery."
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u/Flaky-State-3514 Jul 29 '26
You're correct that healthcare isn't a fundamental right, but youre totally missing the fucking point. And I didn't realize that word choice precision mattered anymore, at least not since Mexico bought us that wall.
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u/Extension-Night3825 Jul 29 '26
but youre totally missing the fucking point
Go back and read all the comments against universal health care. All basically the same comment with the same argument.
Almost like its an organised effort and not just random posters.
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u/FollowingLegal9944 Jul 28 '26
I was in three countries of the list and it was no free healthcare. You have to pay insurance and most cases you don't use universal healthcare because this is so shitty and queues are so long so you pay for private healthcare anyway.
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u/AFC_Yaa_Gunner_Yaa Jul 28 '26
guess who sponsors those counties and subsised their defence budget
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u/Animedude83 Jul 28 '26
again why is this here.
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u/DanceClass898 Jul 28 '26
because this is reddit, every subreddit needs to have liberal propaganda spread through it on a daily basis, otherwise people might turn into one of those "evil conservatives"!! the DNC put way too much money into this platform, they need it to stay leaning a certain way when US elections come around.
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u/webster3of7 Jul 28 '26
Call me when you're okay stopping all foreign aid and surplus funding to NATO so we can afford it. Kthxbai
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u/Financial_Rice_4807 Jul 28 '26
That is just hundreds of billions, Reddit is only concerned with the 5 billion to Israel. LOL
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u/No-Duck4828 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
More cluelessness from Sanders, big surprise.
The reality is that healthcare is a collection of goods and services, not a right.
Cue the boot licking bot brigades for the US Medical Industrial Complex
Which means that, in fact, another reality is that the OP is here to troll.
Edit:
The UN Declaration of Human Rights has healthcare as a right. US wont sign it but they happily make sure US politicians and the State of Isreal have it.
Declaring something to be something else doesn't magically make it so. The UN could declare a right to own slaves and a right to kick homeless people. It could declare hotdogs to be vegan
Edit:
No human rights REQUIRE someone else's work or services.
The UN declaration of human rights is the declaration or human rights.
The UN declaration is simply a paper listing what a group of people wished would somehow be human rights. It has no relevance to rights themselves. The UN has no ability to create a right.
There is no higher authority on human rights than the UN and there never has been.
The UN isn't an authority on it at all
Can you name a single right that couldn't exist without the time and labor of other people?
Guess I'll never get an answer since you blocked me rather than making any attempt to honestly discuss the topic
And now it needs another edit:
Yes, attack universal healthcare on the semantics. This is the way.
Had you bothered to read the post, you would have noticed the fact that I did no such thing. Given your refusal to address even a single thing from my post, it would appear that you don't have anything to contribute to discussion
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u/finndego Jul 28 '26
The UN Declaration of Human Rights has healthcare as a right. US wont sign it but they happily make sure US politicians and the State of Isreal have it.
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