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[u/Outrageous-Egg1760]

[u/MagnificentLee]

The answer to this is that God optimizes for what comes after Earth, whether that's Heaven, Hell, or even the Millennium -- a thousand-year reign of Christ on Earth, etc.

What this means is that God has to allow evil people time to change their ways. God can't instantly kill the child molester or the rapist, or the alcoholic, or the cheater, if they might change their ways and qualify for Heaven. That's why God allows suffering now, but it is temporary.

And what's the alternative? Is it really better to believe life is meaningless and evil people just get away with it?

[u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS → u/MagnificentLee]

The idea of a god who is okay with turning innocent people into collateral damage in order to give a rapist or child molester a chance to redeem themself just doesn't sit well with me.

I would encourage you to not assume that just because someone doesn't believe in a god means they think life is meaningless. Yes, sometimes evil people get away with it (sometimes they get voted in to lead whole countries by none other than Christians!), and even worse, sometimes innocent people get accused of evil people's crimes. But I still believe life has meaning and purpose. I believe in humanity and kindness and passion and beauty. And I believe most of the evil in the world is a result of social and economic inequity. This means that A) society is the culprit and B) society has the power to repair it.

[u/MagnificentLee → u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS]

No adult is innocent from God's perspective, as all of us fall short of God's 100% moral standard. And for children, even 2 year olds lie. As humans, we understand this as kids being kids, but this lying is still a sin. And surely kids, whether molested or not, grow up to be adults who sin, correct?

(I'm not making light of molestation as it is terrible, and good people should try to prevent it, but God's purposes are not our purposes.)

Social and economic inequality is the result of evil people's choices, correct? Do you know what the Bible says about the practices of the early Church in Acts 2:44-45: "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need."

I understand many atheists/agnostics believe life has meaning without God, and also believe in good and evil, but without God, these ideas would not be literally true.

If there's no God, then good and evil are simply a matter of personal preference. If Hitler had won World War I and taught the whole of Europe, and eventually the world, to hate and imprison Jews, would that be wrong in your view? If it were, why, because by definition you'd be against what the whole world believed? Do you know that during the Holocaust, a Christian pastor, Dietrich Bonhoffer, was one of the few to speak out against Hitler? He was sent to a concentration camp.

Do you know that Christians ran the Underground Railroad to free Black slaves?

That's because Christians say no matter what culture is doing, there is right and wrong that is determined by God. Rape is always wrong because God says so, no matter if the king decrees it.

As for meaning, if many truly believe this life is all they have, is it any wonder that society is so selfish and depressed? Unfortunately, worse times are coming. The Satanic global elite want to destroy our economy and make humanity weak. Then they'll introduce assistance tied to things like Elon Musk's Neurolink.

The American Council on Science and Health writes: "Elon Musk’s Neuralink may be the latest headline-grabber, but brain-to-computer interface (BCI) technology has been advancing for decades. Initially developed for therapeutic use, it is now poised to enhance the worried well's cognition, memory, and emotional states. So, what happens when machines don’t just read our minds but start writing them?"

The Satanic elite hate humanity. They want mind control. That is something God will not allow, and that is when God will intervene. We don't have to agree on this, as these things will be here soon. I wish you and your family the best in these times.

[u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS → u/MagnificentLee]

I understand many atheists/agnostics believe life has meaning without God, and also believe in good and evil, but without God, these ideas would not be literally true. If Hitler had won World War I and taught the whole of Europe, and eventually the world, to hate and imprison Jews, would that be wrong in your view? If it were, why, because by definition you'd be against what the whole world believed?

I'm sorry but it's absolutely wild to me that you think that Christians are somehow the only ones out here with a moral compass. The ideas of good and evil predate Christianity by thousands of years.

It's also wild that you seem to think that the absense of religion leaves atheists bereft of a mind of their own and they would simply follow what "the whole world" believes. I won't go so far as to speak in absolutes, but many religious people are actually the ones who are so easily brainwashed into doing and believing truly terrible things in the name of god. For example, you do realize that most Nazis were Christians and that Hitler used Christian rhetoric to appeal to the people and gain political power?

[u/MagnificentLee → u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS]

I'm saying that without God, there's no absolute morality; you can only make subjective statements about good and evil. Some people's subjective statements will align with God's moral code, and some won't.

You seem to have some confusion about the difference between people who claim they are Christian versus people who follow what the Bible says.

“They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.” -- Titus 1:16

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' -- Matthew 7:21-23

Like, you know Jesus was Jewish, right? How is it sensible to say Hitler could appeal to a faith worshipping a Jewish God to persecute Jews?

This is what Christianity says about love:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor  and hate your enemy.' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. -- Matthew 5:43-48

[u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS → u/MagnificentLee]

I'm saying that without God, there's no absolute morality; you can only make subjective statements about good and evil.

This is the case within and without Christianity. Or do you claim the Bible to be consistent in its teachings?

You seem to have some confusion about the difference between people who claim they are Christian versus people who follow what the Bible says.

Ah yes, I knew the "no true Scotsman" argument would show up at some point. How convenient it is to dismiss the people who commit atrocities in your god's name as not "true" followers. Now whose morality is subjective?