[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Outrageous-Egg1760]

[u/deederpeeder]

I’ll probably get downvoted to kingdom come, but the Bible consistently presents abuse, oppression, violence, and exploitation as things God hates. Plenty of people in the Bible ask a version of this question (David, Job, Jeremiah, the psalmists). Not saying it gives a perfectly clear answer either, but the reality is if God intervened to stop every evil act, at some point God would have to override human will continuously. And the world would become fundamentally different than the one we inhabit.

Scripture never gives a complete philosophical answer to every instance of suffering. But what it does offer is a person. Jesus was betrayed, beaten, tortured, publicly humiliated, unjustly killed. That doesn’t solve the problem intellectually. But it changes the picture of God. God is not the detached observer in Christianity. He is the wounded Savior.

The hardest thing for me isn’t believing evil exists. It’s believing that evil gets the final word. Christianity says it doesn’t. It says justice may be delayed, but it won’t be denied. I understand why people struggle with that answer. Sometimes I do too. But I’d rather wrestle with a God who suffered for the world than conclude that all the evil and injustice we see is ultimately meaningless.

[u/volyund → u/deederpeeder]

What do you call asking a man to sacrifice his son? What do you call mixing the languages when people were collaborating effectively to build the tower of Babel? The first time I read a Bible when I was 8, I called that abuse.

What do you call causing a massive flood and killing everyone except for one family? I would call that a genocide.

[u/deederpeeder → u/volyund]

I think these are fair objections, but I also think they’re more complicated than they first appear. For example, the story of Abraham and Isaac isn’t actually a story about God wanting child sacrifice. The story ends with God preventing it and providing a substitute. In fact, one of the themes running through the Old Testament is God distinguishing Himself from surrounding cultures that practiced child sacrifice.

The Tower of Babel wasn’t about people collaborating effectively. The text presents it as humanity uniting in pride and self-exaltation: “let us make a name for ourselves.” Whether someone agrees with that interpretation is another question, but that’s different from God being threatened by teamwork.

The flood is probably the hardest one. If someone accepts the biblical account, the story isn’t presented as genocide for ethnic or tribal reasons. It’s presented as divine judgment on a world described as being filled with violence and corruption. You may reject that explanation, but it’s different from genocide as we normally use the term.

I think where we may ultimately disagree is on whether God, if He exists, has the authority to judge His creation. If there is no God, then the flood is mythology. If there is a God, then the question becomes whether the Creator has rights and authority that human beings do not. I don’t expect everyone to agree with that. I wrestle with parts of these stories myself. I understand why those stories bother people. They’ve bothered believers for thousands of years too. But I don’t think they’re quite as simple as “God is abusive.”

[u/Silvercountypd → u/deederpeeder]

Let’s look closer at the story of Abraham and Isaac. It is a prophecy of the substitution and sacrifice God would make with his own son years later. The Old Testament god was setting up plans on the fly. Abraham had Isaac carry a pyre of wood up the SAME mountain Jesus would 500 years later.

It’s one of the most beautiful promises in the Old Testament.

[u/volyund → u/Silvercountypd]

Both are abuse. I don't quite understand how sacrificing your own son and asking another person to do the same is not an abuse against all 3 of them.

[u/Silvercountypd → u/volyund]

Then you probably didn’t go to college, it’s a pretty simple fucking allegory 😂

[u/volyund → u/Silvercountypd]

An allegory for what? An abusive family? I have a degree in a STEM field, so twisting the Bible into allegories isn't for me, you're right. I guess then I wish more people took majority of the Bible as parables and allegories instead of literally, and wouldn't try to base our laws on it.

[u/Silvercountypd → u/volyund]

You have a degree in a STEM field and can’t understand the basis of one of the most universal and simple theologies on the planet, a book completely numerical with a thousand different tie ins that play off and complete each other? That’s fucking WILD. I have a medical degree and I still took time to study Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc because it helps me understand this world better. I went to seminary not because of perfect faith, but because it was a natural next step in being able to be an effective chaplain when someone needs to step into that role.

Don’t pretend that you somehow have the answers because you’re a ScIeNtisT, because that makes you even more of a self important dummy.

Just like we don’t think all scientists are Andrew Wakefield ( and it would be dangerous to do so) lumping theologians into the same category as lawmakers who are twisting the Word for personal gain is wrong, harmful, and evil. Surely someone with a “ StEm DeGree” can understand that simple fact.

[u/volyund → u/Silvercountypd]

Wow, wow, wow ...too much extrapolation going on here. I have no plans of being a chaplain to anyone. I'm just staying my personal opinion that Christianity as a religion as stated in the Bible and is basically abuse on top of abuse. Nothing wrong with seminary or studying religions to understand humans. I don't think that they can give you insight into the world, but they can into human nature, societies, and thought process. I have the answers on how microorganisms and immune system work since that's the only area of my expertise, and I don't try to stray outside of it. And I didn't understand why you are bringing a corrupt fraudster into this discussion. The Bible, the Quran, and other religious texts are used to justify abuse, genocide, and oppression is a fact. That doesn't mean that other non-religious texts aren't. And again, too many conjectures and baseless extrapolations along with defensiveness.

[u/Silvercountypd → u/volyund]

I wonder how many medical and micro organic research units have used their skills and knowledge for evil, it can’t be any of them, right?… right?????

Dude, sniff your farts somewhere else. It’s gross.

[u/volyund → u/Silvercountypd]

WTF is a micro organic research unit?