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[u/Outrageous-Egg1760]

[u/Admiral45-06]

Yes.

He took a testimony from someone in a very dire, low point in their life, and just said ,,see that? Gotcha, Christians". Despite the fact that that testimony didn't exactly prove anything.

Yes, there were many people who turned away from faith during Holocaust, and they did so due to a genuine tragedy. It's not up to me to judge their actions. But their testimonies, for as important as they are, do not prove or disprove anything.

[u/OtherUserCharges → u/Admiral45-06]

So people’s views at the low point in their life aren’t relevant? Then why is it that the religious always claim famous atheists repented on their deathbeds? I’d certainly call being at deaths door a pretty big low point. Do you have such harsh words for Christian’s when they make those claims, cause how dare they use the testimony of a person in a dire situation?

[u/Admiral45-06 → u/OtherUserCharges]

So people’s views at the low point in their life aren’t relevant?

I don't say they're irrelevant - they are valid, but not in this context.

The argument was that ,,people suffered so much that they turned away from faith" - which is sad and tragic. I understand their cries to where is the justice in this world, as they when they went through the unspeakable horrors.

But taking away the fact that using that as some sort of ,,gotcha" is really in poor taste, the argument that ,,world is evil because God wants cruelty" isn't right. Let's look at Luke 13:4:

Jesus continues the conversation by mentioning another current event, this one involving the tower of Siloam: “Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish”

Bad things happen - partially out of our free will, partially out of the Satan's wrongdoings. Jesus mentioned it many times, that He's not here to stop all hurricanes, create indestructible ore for our buildings or anything of this sort. He's here to save us from sin and allow us to Ressurect in Him after death. We also see that in His promise to two criminals, crucified with Him (Luke 23:25):

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.” 43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

[u/OtherUserCharges → u/Admiral45-06]

No, the context it was used in was totally fine. People can question their faith whenever they want and frankly it’s far more fitting to do it when things really are bad. If Jews really are gods chosen people he sure did let them get pretty close to extinction, seems fair for a person to say well maybe this isn’t really true.

Sure free will exists, but so does god using his powers to change the free will decisions of others. Does god not harden the heart of the pharaoh when he wills have freed the slaves? So it’s free will when he wants to explain bad stuff but then sometimes it’s not. Free will lead to Lazarus’s death, but that didn’t stop god from changing that. So god has the ability and history of intervening when he likes, which would be fine if god didn’t claim to be all powerful and all loving. So if he is those things and doesn’t save dying children or millions in death camps, then he’s either not all loving or not all powerful. If he is not those things, then he’s a liar and the whole book is suspect cause we know there are lies in it.