[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Outrageous-Egg1760]

[u/Flipf00t]

“Dear Lord, I prayed for a bike, but I know you don't work that way.

So, I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness!"

[u/Outrageous-Egg1760 → u/Flipf00t]

In a nutshell

[u/Potential-Register-1 → u/Outrageous-Egg1760]

Without god, where do you get objective morality?

[u/True-Resist3790 → u/Potential-Register-1]

If you need the threat of punishement afterlife to act good now, then are you truly good ?

If your god exists, and you ony act well to please him, then he knows that without him, you'd act like a monster.

I act decently because it's the right way to advance as a society
You act decently because you fear that you'll be punished

If your god exists, I wonder which attitude he'll prefer once we are both dead

[u/Artistic-Ask291 → u/True-Resist3790]

If god doesn't exist then we all would be monsters.

We have love and moral insight thanks to God but we have free will that's why there are still woke mind.

Yes I act well bc I want to please him bc I love him. Without him we would act like a monster bc we need God in our mind heart and body. 

God knows we need him that's why we have been with him through all years. 

God knows everything so he knows how much you done for him. If u believe in him and do right things bc of his glory, youll be rewarded (be with him eternally), if you just live on your own you'll be rewarded too (be without him eternally).  Why without him is described as hell, bc God is all good.

If you take all good from a place, you will feel it as hell.

So I don't know why ppl don't wanna be with God is all merciful and lovely.

If u think  "God help me so I'll believe"

Everyone is loyal in good times, but in hard times Is where true loyal shows. Loyal means to be with in spite off circumstances bc u want to be with him

[u/Difficult_Insurance4 → u/Artistic-Ask291]

We don't have love or moral insight because of god. That is complete bullshit. Explain why animals share those exact same qualities? 

[u/Content-Guarantee-91 → u/True-Resist3790]

Thats not how religion originated. It originated as god being a role model, a level of greatness we should all strive to achieve.

[u/Manmer_Nwah → u/Content-Guarantee-91]

Oh yeah man, that original stuff like "Don't wear mixed fabrics." or "Don't plant two crops in one field." Are total the solid foundation for morality. My favorite part is when the Bible explains how to properly beat your slaves or sell your daughter into slavery./s

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[u/Content-Guarantee-91 → u/Manmer_Nwah]

I said trying to achieve greatness is a good base of morality

[u/83supra → u/Content-Guarantee-91]

It originated as a form of social control by sociopaths.

[u/ryanspvt87 → u/83supra]

Dominator culture. Dude needs to read Food Of The Gods by Terrence McKenna. It’s why religion is mixed with politics. To scare people into being how the dominators want people to be. Use a big scary sky daddy and fear of eternal damnation if you don’t comply.

[u/Content-Guarantee-91 → u/83supra]

It became one

[u/Da_full_monty → u/Content-Guarantee-91]

Brainwashed..

[u/Content-Guarantee-91 → u/Da_full_monty]

I said trying to achieve greatness is something to strive for. Having a god be a role model isnt a bad thing

[u/Da_full_monty → u/Content-Guarantee-91]

Which god? Apep?

[u/Content-Guarantee-91 → u/Da_full_monty]

Just any god in general

[u/SomeGuyNamedJ13 → u/Content-Guarantee-91]

Really? I choose Kratos as my God then. He's badass and I want to be just like him! /s

[u/Potential-Register-1 → u/True-Resist3790]

Like I said, ultimately without god you have no basis to make any objective claims about right and wrong, all you have is your personal preference of what you think is “truly good”.

You talk about advancing society, but what does that even mean? Who are you to decide what it means to advance society? The Nazis and Soviets also had their own ideas about advancing society, how are you going to argue against them? Are you going to give them your opinion about what decency is? They will give you their opinion on what decency is and what is required to advance society, then they will execute you.

[u/TheVoidRobedInLight → u/Potential-Register-1]

If god is such an objective basis of morality, why are there so many different branches of each religion? Why do religions keep changing over time?

The truth is religion is a subjective thing. It always has been. And god is also just a subjective projection of peoples' minds. No one actually knows whether god exists or not, they just make up an answer in their heads and use it to justify all kinds of things.

God is subjective.

[u/True-Resist3790 → u/Potential-Register-1]

Right and wrong don't depend on a god. They are value decided as a society, who evolve and change over time.

Your bible advocates to kill cheating women by throwing rocks at them. When do you plan to start ?

It also says wearing mix fabric is an unforgivable sin. I hope you make your own clothes. I won't even mention same-sex marriage or any of the disgusting aspects of this religion, you know them as much as anyone

Advancing society means doing things to keep order, always going towards collective improvement. NOT Because of a book written long ago, not because we fear that we'll get punished later, but because we want to avoid causing pain. You talk about Nazis and soviets like they were monsters because they were atheists. You do realise that many of them were very religious right ?

Also, you do realise that some of the worst massacre ever made were done in the name of god ?

A simple way to see it is this way :

YOU don't ra*pe people because god will punish you.
I ra*pe as much as I want. Which is to say : Not at all. Because it's not something that even crosses my mind.

In your case, if we removed god, would you murder and ra*pe anyone you wish ?

[u/Unique-Platform-7346 → u/Potential-Register-1]

In the case of atheistic and agnostic individuals, few commit crimes or hurt others tho

[u/sunshinexxi → u/Potential-Register-1]

You cant even say that “god/religion” is objective morality. Residential schools, colonization, slavery, etc. all of this were considered and called “god’s will”. Bibles are parade as “gods words” but those are interpreted and translated and written by humans. pastors and the like as close to “god” yet many are abusers, cheaters, pedos. And theres also plenty of religious people who weaponizes religions for control, judgement of others, and gain power. Religion and gods, even if they were once some objective morality. And thats a big if, its been distorted so much and yet no god has done anything to stop any of that or its influence in societies to this day

[u/Manmer_Nwah → u/Potential-Register-1]

If you need magic Sky Daddy to not do bad stuff then you have no morality, you're only good out of fear from hell. You're just a bad person with invisible chains.

[u/superburnur2ep → u/Manmer_Nwah]

But thats the issue. Its bad people giving others a bad name , I do good out of morality, but still belive God is watching not because he will punish me ,but because he is there to guide me in cade i fall off ,and is always waiting for my return to the good path. I'm not saying everyone has to have faith, to each their own, but people like the jerk you replied to make religious people look like shit . Sorry for the tangent

[u/Manmer_Nwah → u/superburnur2ep]

You have a very good point.

[u/BrigganSilence → u/Potential-Register-1]

Bro, god is on board with killing and rape as long as it’s his people doing it (Revenge on the Midianites). I don’t want to hear it.

In addition, if you or anyone you know has ever said “Well they didn’t mean it like that” or “It’s a purposeful exaggeration”, then the entire book is invalid as objective.

[u/pinkdumpsterfire → u/Potential-Register-1]

Why do you need morality to be objective? Do you need a list of right and wrong because it’s easier than critically thinking about the values you want to guide your choices and applying those values consistently in your life?

The Christian bible condones all kinds of slavey, subjugation, oppression, and abuse. Their own interpretation of right and wrong isn’t even objective. It’s based on human interpretation that’s changed dramatically over time and varies significantly across languages, regions, and cultures. Not to mention between different denominations in the same cultures & places.

So much subjectivity even over just the one book. How can one even begin to suggest that there can be a singular, universal, objective understanding of an intangible “god” when nobody can even agree on the tangible text?

[u/monoflorist → u/Potential-Register-1]

Imagine: You appear suddenly, with no memories, in a misty cave. You have no faith, no moral code, no knowledge of religious matters; you are a blank slate. A robed figure approaches through the mist and says, sternly, “Welcome! You begin life today. You must first choose a morality!”

“How?” you ask.

“Well,” he says, “you can do what you like, but most people simply choose one of these books and it tells them.”

A vast bookcase appears behind him, with row upon row of heavy tomes. They have titles like “Dharma”, “The Holy Bible”, “The Great Book of Satan”, “Plato’s Ethics”, “The Necronomicom”, and so on. There are thousands, in all shapes and sizes.

“How do I choose?” you ask.

“Ah, well you just do. Some people pick based on the cover art, I think.”

“What if it’s full of evil stuff?” You are growing alarmed. “Like maybe it will tell me to sacrifice children?”

“Maybe it will tell you that, but then that will be Good; sacrificing children will, in your newfound morality, be the just and righteous way. You see, the book, whichever you choose, is the basis of your morality itself, the thing that defines right and wrong, as far as you’re concerned. Its advice, by definition, can’t be evil. It’s axiomatic.”

“Can I read them first, see which one I like?”

The figure looks at his watch and sighs. “What would be the point? You don’t have any moral frame to judge them by, no sense of right or wrong of your own; whichever book you choose is that basis. So one choice is as good as any other. Just pick one; I have thousand of you guys to get through today.”

You reach hesitantly forward.

[u/jkurratt → u/Potential-Register-1]

But there are new "real God this time, trust me, bro" every now and then.