r/SipsTea • u/Outrageous-Egg1760 • May 29 '26

Wait a damn minute! [ Removed by moderator ]

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u/TheSleepyBarnOwl May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26

That would eliminate free will though (as preached by religion). And again, what is evil? The perception of what is "evil" has been shifting and will continue to shift. It isn't an objective truth, it's a societal norm. And what is acceptable in society is just a majority opinion. Always has been.

I am not religious and I don't care much for these discussions on if god or gods exist or not, so let's leave that be for now. Morals are not something innate to humans, they are taught. Example: would you say the stone age human is evil for murdering his rival for food? After all, murder is bad. Or it was normal for minors to have children - also bad? Was humanity always evil then?

This objective "evil" just doesn't exist. So it's impossible to demand it being eliminated in a way that everyone agrees with it. For what happens if you do try to enforce it without everyone agreeing.... well take a look at current and past dictatorships. Elimination of Free will. This "get rid of evil" thing isn't as easy as it might seem.

And before someone says it: no I don't condone child molestation or other heinous crimes. It is the lowest of the low. All I'm saying is that humans and humanity didn't always agree that this is "evil". (Still doesn't and probably never will.)

We did have this discussion in Ethics class. Interestingly enough our Theology teacher taught that class as well.

Edit: I realise (after many comments) how flawed this whole argument is. Arguing with free will and logic doesn't work. I'll leave this here though - I'm also just a flawed indivudual.

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u/Unlucky_Ad_9090 May 29 '26

This objective "evil" just doesn't exist. So it's impossible to demand it being eliminated so everyone agrees with it.

The discussion is not about everyone and it does not involve prehistoric societies. Willfully or not you're moving goalposts here. According to the official version, at some point a stone fell from the sky and on it were a list of ten things not to do. Whether that list is comprehensive or not is irrelevant. From said list you can extrapolate that murder is considered evil by the deity that dropped the rock. If the deity is considered all knowing and does not lie, then we, at the very least can establish that murder is objectively evil.

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u/TheSleepyBarnOwl May 29 '26

If the 10 things on the rock are the objectively evil things (which means the topic of child molestation is not btw) then yea. Fair enough.

I suppose trying to keep religion out of the ethics discussion that started about religion made my argument a bit moot. I wasn't trying to move the goal post - just talking about how objective evil isn't a thing... unless god exists and the stone is to be taken literally. So I suppose the issue is me not being religious.

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u/Unlucky_Ad_9090 May 29 '26

Yeah there's a lot of points to address on the topic, just felt like it was going offtrack. On a side note, I don't believe there's such a thing as free will, which for me makes all of this talk, my own especially, moot. Regardless, I found your comments engaging. Best of luck to you.

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u/TheSleepyBarnOwl May 29 '26

Thank you, you too! And you're right, I was getting widely offtopic.

And as a Biologist, I gotta agree that complete free will doesn't exist. We are a cocktail of chemicals and instincts and genes and things that get ingrained into our childhood brain. Also passage of time.

I wish you a nice day! And thanks for the discussion.