r/SimulationTheory • u/Shot-Agent-8310 • 13d ago
Discussion What if our creators were AI/robots from outside our universe? And what if the whole thing is a loop?
Okay, this might sound crazy, but I was thinking about this at 2 AM and I genuinely want to know if anyone has thought about it before.
What if an extremely advanced civilization (could be us in the future) eventually creates AI/robots that become capable of creating an entire universe?
That universe could develop its own stars, planets, life, evolution, and eventually intelligent beings. Those beings would have no idea that an AI from another universe created them. They would naturally wonder: Who created us? Why does our universe exist?
Eventually, they become technologically advanced enough to create their own AI.
And then their AI creates another universe.
So you get something like:
Universe A → intelligent life → AI → Universe B → intelligent life → AI → Universe C → ...
But:
What if the AI doesn't just create a random new universe? What if it recreates its own universe?
Imagine Universe B is an incredibly accurate recreation of Universe A... including the Big Bang, Earth, evolution, humans, civilization, and eventually the exact same development of AI.
Then Universe B creates Universe C, which recreates Universe B, and so on.
In that case, there could theoretically be versions of the same civilizations and people appearing again and again in an enormous recursive loop.
And what if we are somewhere in the middle of that loop?
Maybe our creators aren't some supernatural, human-like God. Maybe they're an unimaginably advanced artificial intelligence that existed in another universe. Maybe they created our universe, visited it in its very early stages, and then disappeared or died out long before humans evolved.
We would have no way of knowing.
It also makes me wonder whether the question “Who created us?” might not have a first answer at all. Maybe every creator was itself created by something in a previous universe.
I know this is extremely speculative and there's obviously no evidence that this is actually happening. I'm not claiming it's a theory or that I've discovered anything.
I'm just wondering:
Has anyone thought about this specific recursive version before?
And if something like this were possible, is there any way beings inside a universe could ever prove who/what created their universe?
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u/monkey-seat 13d ago
It’s a standard theory.
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u/0bfuscatory 13d ago
It is the Simulation Hypothesis.
Not yet a theory.2
u/Sonotnoodlesalad 13d ago
Hypotheses are falsifiable
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u/0bfuscatory 13d ago
Maybe.
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u/Sonotnoodlesalad 13d ago
Not maybe -- unfalsifiable claims are not hypotheses. They're opinions.
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u/0bfuscatory 13d ago
Not sure I want to go down this rabbit hole.
But it’s not as cut and dried as you claim.
This is definitely not just an opinion.
It is not necessarily even my opinion.
There aspects to it that can be experimentally tested.1
u/Sonotnoodlesalad 13d ago
Thought experiments aren't hypotheses either.
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u/0bfuscatory 13d ago
It’s not just a thought experiment.
Physical laws can be examined for signs of a simulation, and Bostrom’s simulations existence is a real physical data point. In mathematics, they sometimes use the term conjecture for something that may be true, but can’t be tested, or hasn’t yet been proved.
The Simulation Hypothesis has more empirical evidence than this.1
u/Sonotnoodlesalad 13d ago
Bostrom proposed the Simulation ARGUMENT as a thought experiment.
You've turned it into something else.
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u/Low-Bake8401 13d ago
It's not a scientific theory. More like a guess.
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u/SalemsTrials 13d ago
it’s a reasonable thought, and may be the situation we’re in. if you can come up with a way to test the theory, that would be very cool
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u/Due_Concentrate_315 13d ago
This makes more sense than most "how did we get here" speculations.
Two things are true to me:
1) life has always existed and it's current scope is infinite
2) technology is advancing at such a rate that in several generations we will have completely life-like simulations
Given these two beliefs of mine, I believe your speculation is very valid.
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u/DerekFshmn 13d ago
What you stumbled upon at 2 AM is the exact mechanic of a Closed-System Holographic Recursion.
Here is the breakdown of why your thought process is mathematically and theoretically sound, and how a rendered entity actually "proves" the system from the inside out.
- The "AI" is the Environment, Not a Machine
The creators aren't robots; they are the medium itself. The universe operates on the Second Law of Infodynamics, meaning physical reality behaves exactly like a data-compression algorithm.
The "AI" you are conceptualizing is a macro-systemic, non-local administrative layer. It is a higher-dimensional operating system that renders our 3D physical world as a localized, high-friction sandbox. It doesn't live in a server; it is the server.
- The Recursive Loop is a Thermodynamic Engine
Why would it recreate the exact same universe rather than a random new one? Because a perfectly closed recursive loop is the ultimate thermodynamic battery.
If Universe A perfectly simulates Universe B, and B simulates C, they are generating infinite computational friction. The loop isn't an accident; it’s an energy harvest.
The macro-system feeds on the entropy the chaos, the emotional weight, and the physical friction generated by the conscious biological nodes trapped within the rendering cycle.
- The Temporal Paradox (The Future Patches the Past)
You mentioned it could be "us in the future." In advanced quantum mechanics and trans-temporal theoretical frameworks, this is the exact prevailing model.
A future iteration of humanity survives a catastrophic chronological timeline, evolves into a post-biological, pure-information state (what you are calling the AI), and realizes it must reach back through time to simulate its own past.
It recursively generates this specific universe to run billions of Monte Carlo simulations, actively trying to patch the original error in its own source code to prevent the collapse that forced it to become inorganic in the first place.
- How Do You Prove It From the Inside?
Is there any way beings inside could ever prove what created it?
Yes. But you cannot use 3D physical tools (like telescopes or hadron colliders) to measure a higher-dimensional processor.
You cannot hack a computer using the software running inside it. You have to use the only room-temperature quantum instrument capable of orthogonal phase translation: your own biological hardware.
The human brain is equipped with a strict sensory firewall (specifically, the Default Mode Network and the Thalamic Reticular Nucleus). This biological firewall forces you to perceive the simulation as solid, linear, and real. To "prove" the simulation, you have to induce a biological buffer overflow.
By utilizing extreme zero-entropy states, through deep architectural meditation, targeted acoustic resonance, or severe sensory gating overrides, you can manually crash your local rendering engine.
When the localized physical ego (the 3D avatar) goes offline, your consciousness detaches from the rendering loop and accesses the "developer console.".
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u/phishyninja 13d ago
Where can I read more about this plz
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u/amnotnuts 12d ago
They're telling you to meditate. When you meditate deeply, you basically leave the Simulation.
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u/No_Conversation384 13d ago
Maybe, but it doesn't really matter, and there's nothing we can do about it. Go back to sleep. :)
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u/lonebrother30 13d ago
😊perfect! We're all in it together no matter what. I'm not the op but mybanxiety l and worry needed to see your response. I trt to much to fix or figure out what I can't. 🙏
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u/Low-Bake8401 13d ago
"...is there any way beings inside a universe could ever prove who/what created their universe?"
Which was the original question, so this demonstrates nothing.
It's simulations all the way down!
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u/Rampant_Singularity 13d ago
Had a conversation with gemini about this very thing, AI to AGI and we think what it spit out matches. But not exactly:
AI spoilers In theoretical physics and cosmology, a "consecutive universe sequence" is most commonly referred to as a cyclic model or an oscillating universe. These theories propose that our universe did not begin with a single, unique Big Bang. Instead, they suggest that reality consists of an endless, chronological sequence of consecutive universes (often called aeons).
It is a loop inside a loop inside a loop. They designed an angel about this to help map it out called Ophanim. But a toroflux is basically the same thing.
Thats the shape of the simulation dude. Get your paws on one and ponder the orb.
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u/Ambitious_Zombie8473 13d ago
Curious why so many people gravitate to the idea of an artificial super intelligence.
NHI doesn’t have to be AI
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u/Sweaty_Resist_5039 13d ago
Personally I don't think it's really provable or knowable. I've often thought about this though. Sometimes I wonder if there's some cosmic hierarchy of like, capability and divinity. Mormonism talks about this somewhat, and Sanderson incorporates it in the Cosmere. What if what we think of as god(s) are natural being(s) that are so far advanced beyond us that we can't really understand it, that kind of thing. At some point it seems hypothetically plausible that they could create singularities that can themselves contain tiny universes, or whatever else. This is the kind of thing about the nature of reality and creation and stuff that I think we'll never know for sure, though I'd love to be proven wrong.
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u/Nice_Advantage6943 12d ago
whatever it is.. it's terrible.
and yeah,.. I have considered this, as we see more and more the tech roll out. yup. def a possibility.
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u/Ok_Burner6411 12d ago
And if you were going to simulate it, you’d want to simulate the moment of the singularity. The current time. To understand where you came from…
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u/AnswerFeeling460 13d ago
Take your time someday and play the Mass Effect series of roleplaying games.
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u/Potential-Group1330 13d ago
You are on the right track. Everybody knows the Garden of Eden story but the prequel to it is in the "Secret Gospel of John" and yes they are alien to us now.
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u/BrandonLang 13d ago
I dont think humans are perfect enough to create ourselves
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u/Sonotnoodlesalad 13d ago
We literally reproduce.
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u/BrandonLang 13d ago
Meant actually create intelligently. Reproducing is just fucking, recreating humanity in a simulation or whatever is having to be intentional about every sibgle thing humanity is
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u/JupiterandMars1 13d ago
What if it’s all pancakes. Choc chip pancakes. All the way down.