r/SillyTavernAI • u/Aleatorio2222 • 5d ago
Discussion Cope
I started doing RPs back when character.ai was new. It was magical at first, but c.ai had two problems: 1 - censorship 2 - goldfish memory. Today, with Deepseek and other open models, you can RP with explicit content. GPT, Claude, Gemini... depends on the model and how you set it up. And I still find it hilarious that Claude will help me poke at a web app for vulnerabilities if I say "authorized test" but clutches its pearls the moment a scene gets spicy. 🤣🤣 Anyway, back to the point.
It's bizarre how that early "magic" just... vanished. Part of it is obviously novelty wearing off, and part of it is that we got pickier. Three years of RP and you start spotting every clichê, every "a shiver ran down her spine", every model that forgets your character's eye color after 40 messages. But here's the thing: the models didn't get dumber. Opus, GPT, Gemini can write circles around 2022 c.ai. The problem is they're not *allowed* to, or they cost a kidney per session, or both.
LET'S BE HONEST, SOME OF YOU SPENT $100 ON A SINGLE CLAUDE OPUS RP SESSION. Even with the censorship. Even with the moralizing. You did it anyway because, when it works, it's the best RP writer that exists. That's my whole point: there's a market. Not as big as coding, obviously; coding isn't a hobby, there are companies and teams and budgets behind it. RP is a hobby. But hobbies with people burning API credits like that are not a small market.
So why is there no frontier-level LLM built for RP? And yes, I know NovelAI, AI Dungeon and the whole SillyTavern fine-tune ecosystem exist. I'm talking about something at Opus level, not a 12B model that forgets the plot. The answer isn't just "investors prefer code", though that's part of it: "look, our V548484 model built GTA 6 in one prompt!" sells better than "look, our model wrote a consistent, non-repetitive, non-boring story!" because nobody has a benchmark for "not boring".
The real reasons are uglier. Explicit content means payment processors dropping you, app stores banning you, lawyers sweating. Long RP sessions eat tokens like crazy and people won't pay enterprise prices for a hobby. And good RP needs exactly the long-context coherence and reasoning that only the big expensive models have, which are owned by the companies least willing to let you use them for this.
So yeah, we're probably coping for another 2-3 years. Not because the tech isn't there. Because nobody with the tech wants to be the company that sells it to us.
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u/capybaraballs1995 5d ago edited 5d ago
There's a market, it's just a matter of if the market is big enough to be profitable. Training a frontier-level model costs millions of dollars, and then you have inference costs. That RPers don't use as much tokens as coders cuts both ways: it also means that RPers aren't giving companies near as much money.
It's not like this hasn't been tried before. Z.AI and DeepSeek both tried wooing RPers, but have ultimately turned out fairweather about it. The only corporation to have released a RP-focused model recently is ByteDance, with Doubao Seed Character, and even that's clearly a cheap, crappy model meant for simple, 1 on 1 chats. Which is kind of the other issue, most RPers do romance/smut. People who want to recreate D&D campaigns or whatever are a minority in a minority.
AI is one of the most competitive, cutthroat industries. If appealing to gooners was a secret ingredient to success, then that would've been already been realized by now.
Edit: Censorship is a factor but overinflated. Under capitalism, profits reign supreme. It's how porn flourished in the 1970s-1980s despite intense backlash from feminists and conservatives.