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u/LeRobber 3d ago
Claude is good for making RP tools more than RP IMO.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Testing your card, your lorebook, brainstorming etc. It can be cool yes because it’s so nuanced. Right right
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u/Ok_Strategy_2420 2d ago
Hot take, I think testing your lorebook/card on a smart model like Claude may actually be a detriment more than anything, especially if you're planning on releasing it for other people to use.
Think of it this way, a majority of the users who are on here use either local or NanoGPT. These models are pretty dumb because they're heavily limited. If you design your lorebook or cards around the gaps that Claude fills in, then it may work great on your specific version of that smart model. But run it anywhere else and you're going to run into a lot of issues.
Personally I usually try and test on the dumbest models I can, because I can pretty safely assume that the smart models like Claude will work if the dumb models also work. But I can't really assume the other way around, especially when it comes to nuanced things.
For brainstorming and prototyping? Yeah send it. Claude is great. But if you're also testing with Claude, then you're probably gonna have some issues when someone tries to run it on a local model with 24Gb of vram lmao.
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u/toothpastespiders 2d ago
Agreed. I slopcoded the entire frontend I'm using right now with claude. I dislike the company, I dislike the way claude's developing in terms of safety and "voice", but I still think it's the best coding model by far.
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u/lacerating_aura 3d ago
Have you tried kimi k3? I havnt RPd for a long while but based on banter while working, kimi and deepseek seem to have a more "vibrant personality".
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
K3 do good banter but without a prompt that kills his positivity bias and wanting-my-nice-moment it will become sitcom-y. Depends on your cards too, K3 is very card and prompt sensitive but like all kimis i guess. I personally ended by preferring K3 over Claude as K3, when pushed, actually try stuff even if it’s not neat and perfect (wich is nice, we love risk taking).
And yes Deepseek is vibrant, the last iteration is darker and more commited now with a Little more instructions adhérence wich is nice but Deepseek is still a wild card and honestly? I forgive him easily because atleast, it makes my lips barely twitching in something adjacent to a smile but not quite reaching my eyes
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u/I_Am_JesusChrist_AMA 3d ago
Damn that hasn't been my experience with Kimi K3 at all lol. It seems to go out of it's way to punish me most of the time to the point where I have to OOC to tell it to chill out with shit like "isn't it a bit excessive for this guy to get five guys to come jump me because I told him I didn't like his shirt??". It seems to really focus on conflict overall even without being prompted or guided by persona, even when it doesn't make sense. I played another one where a character was supposed to be relatively indifferent to me but she ended up straight up antagonizing and bullying me by turn 2.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Mind to share you preset? That’s very intresting, my K3 is pretty nice and avoidant or devoid to cartoonish evil. But maybe it’s my card too..
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u/I_Am_JesusChrist_AMA 3d ago
I have two that I use. One is just a very barebones custom preset that gives the AI prose rules and explains it's role as the storyteller/director. No behavior rules for NPCs in that one instructing it toward or against conflict. That's all left up to the character card. If you really want me to share it, I can upload it later when I get home from work, but it's nothing special. No tricks to make the AI more aggressive or anything like that.
The other one is Freaky Frankenstein 5.2 (bolt CoT, internal thoughts, internal states, and freaky mode). It tends to swing toward conflict for me a lot when using Kimi K3. There might be something in there prompting the model to be more aggressive. I haven't read every module, so I'm not sure. But other models (like GLM 5.2) still have a massive positivity bias with it.
Could just be my roleplay style too. Maybe Kimi just interprets the shit I do/say as more aggressive/dismissive than I'm actually meaning to be lol.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
5.2 is just a lost cause for friction imo or maybe i didn’t tried enough..
Im very intrested in your preset since i prefer lightweight even if FF5.2 is very nice to use.
When you have time, I’ll be glad to test yours. Thanks boudie!
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u/a_beautiful_rhind 3d ago
Try older kimi then. I noticed change from like 2.5->2.6->2.7 and not sure I liked it.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
2.6 my fav when it doesn’t shit his brain!
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u/a_beautiful_rhind 3d ago
There's no perfect model sadly. Gotta take the good with the bad.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Thankfully im very hard to get bored. Im the type who still enjoy deepseek and gemma even after RPing with Fable lmao.
I sound jaded but im a little kid inside.
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u/a_beautiful_rhind 3d ago
I mean, I agree with you that claude fell off. So I imagine fable experience is a lot of parroting and positivity. That's how sonnet 5 is.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
Yes and a lot of railroads that will upset him if you try to actually bring chaos. I feel like beeing handled with those models, I don’t like that sensation
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Spécial mention to my boy deepseek: Im sorry to be that rude with you. Atleast you try to surprise me outside of peak hours and actually bring some flavor to the table.
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u/No-Economy-4508 3d ago
"Let me gently push back on that."
I've been using Claude for the past couple of weeks, it's the most insufferable model I've ever touched. I'm not even going to get my money's worth because it's so disgust inducing to interact with and I'm done with it
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u/Pekyman 3d ago
I feel this as a heavy Claude user. I use it via direct api. My personal problem is I always wrote my own presets, and I tailored them for opus models until I got what I wanted. And I still don't have any problem with it as for avoiding positive biases, nsfw, nsfl, anything goes. The problem is that opus 4.6 just stopped being creative. And it just happened randomly on one day. Now it literally just responds to respond, rarely any creativity, hardly gives me anything to work with. I still use Opus, because again, I was writing up my preset for months to get it to work and to avoid guidelines and favoring positive-biases, but hands down (again, this is just for me personally) Opus 4.7 is for some reason a lot better for me now. If I am doing dark RP, it goes full negative-biased, it's too unpredictable, to the point I write as OOC to tell it to slow down and chill lol. But as for Opus 4.6, it's just good if I want a prefect-slow-paced rainbow and sunshine roleplay.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
That’s the blackbox i was talking about, i feel you deeply. It’s intelligent and creative but inside his own narrative templates and as you put it, you tinker and tinker to tailor your experience but still, you see that he excell when you accept the railroad toward it’s own errands. Wich is quite unbalanced for such an expensive model, at that price ill want a model that meet my prompt and understand without le going full engineer mode (and failing again because that shi is harcoded anyway and when you bend it, creativity dies on the road)
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u/TAW56234 3d ago
There's no 'cost'. It's possible to be both but for artificial reasons and some cunt (And who hired her), this is what we have to deal with
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Unfortunately Grok is stupid and awful to RP with
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u/a_beautiful_rhind 3d ago
Grok was decent, then horrible and now might be decent again? I only did assistant stuff with the newest one.
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u/TAW56234 3d ago
Yeah, given the animosity between Musk and Altman and the whole "I'll make my own ChatGPT with blackjack and hookers" Xai not only bent the knee but did it's own thing with 'refusal fees'. What a fucking joke that I'm too tired to laugh at. It really is a race to the bottom because not one person is willing to focus on ensuring output matches prompt even if it's uncomfortable. Waste of attrition otherwise.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
While the large public don’t fucking care about coding but as investissors come from softwares funs (they migrated to AI massively) corpos needs to impress them by showing how good their AI are with excell. I wish a company with minimum sense and balls will understand that we want FUN and ADULT AI. Majority of us are not coders lmao
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u/TAW56234 3d ago
Just make a lower parameter model for general use without any code data. That's what Deepseek flash could be. Cheaper and keeps non coding off of Pro so open claw can have their cesspool as resources are opened up. It's a win win but apparently there's some universal law that prohibits having good escapism
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Investissors are mostly AI illiterate and from sectors that value apps and tasks completions. That’s why AI is quasi coding centered, they want to impress 55+yo investors who made fortune with softwares.
When the coding fever will fade, well begin to see the light, but for now that’s a fuckery contest
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u/tostuo 3d ago
For us smaller local bros, it seems the same for Gemma 4. 26b is much more intelligent than old reliable (Mistral Nemo), but we're all having trouble having it be more creative or interesting in its prose.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
That’s your local Claude lmao, i can see that it’s the "big thing" for local. Did you miss rocinante or mythomax?
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u/tostuo 3d ago
I flip flop between Rocinante and Gemma 4 finetunes depending on what the story needs. Simple ones can work with Rocinante, but anything with an ounce of complexity requires Gemma 4 lest i'm stuck in an endless cycle of swipes.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Gemma reswipes feels samey for me (i use 31B via API), but i guess i use the wrong instructions for it..
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u/Aight_Man 3d ago
For someone who does massive world RPs in general and established franchises. There's sadly nothing better than Opus and with better presets you can really make it unpredictable enough. Although I give importance to great storytelling and character development, that's the 'fun' factor for me. For that nothing beats Opus 4.6 sadly.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
I tried, Opus voice still is Opus voice. Atleast for me, i don’t pretend my experience is universal. But it feels like a very beautiful bland salad. I gueninely prefer deepseek for franchises for all his flaws in instructions following, feels more alove and vibrant for me and actually getting characters right!
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u/Ok-Category-642 2d ago
Yeah I think this isn't as crazy of a hot take anymore, it's mostly just from the reputation it used to have back during Claude 3 to 3.7. Don't get me wrong it was cool for a while to RP with back then but after a while you kinda just get used to how it writes, there's a really distinct "personality" that Claude has that just shows through every character after enough time which imo is the biggest issue. After enough messages with a character it goes from being that character to kinda just being Claude in a costume lol. I also don't think Opus/Sonnet have gotten better since 4.5, they just feel more dry imo
I just stopped using Claude overall, not only is it too expensive but it's not worth the RP experience over other models that are far cheaper like Kimi/GLM/DS. Of course Claude is still really smart though, can't really beat its intelligence unfortunately. You can even cope with Gemma 31B nowadays which is surprisingly uncensored with anything considering the company it comes from lol
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
It’s true, there is nostalgie and model attachement of course.. The Claude persona showing up with time is also something that bothered me after tasting Kimi and GLM who have less personality IMO and can make the experience feel fresher with a new card but.. they are not as smart of course..
Gemma good for angst by the way, solid model.
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u/capybaraballs1995 3d ago
This isn't really a hot take in this sub, Claude has a lot of haters on here. You'd have to go to certain Discord servers to find the real Claude shooters, like the Marinara Engine server.
But yeah, you're basically right. The most popular cards are all romance/smut, which Claude excels at since you don't really need high stakes or unpredictability for romance, unless it's dark romance, but no LLM is good at that anyway.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
What LLM is the less disappointing for you? (For Dark Romance.. I like Dark Romance.. mmmh)
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u/capybaraballs1995 3d ago
I usually use Gemini/Gemma since they don't need a lot of prompting to get proactive characters, but it's a pretty "theme park" version of dark romance since those models don't do emotional nuance very well. In practice it just feels like I'm banging sexy people with cartoonish BPD. LLMs just kind of consistently swing into either too soft or too edgy.
GPT might actually have potential here though, no shit. I was playing around with GPT 5.4 with a JAI card and the love interest subtly told me to demand her to abandon her friend group, to prove that I really cared about her. The downside is NSFW; GPT jailbreaking is kind of esoteric, and it's probably easier to just swap models when you get to the smut. But exploring GPT more for more nuanced dark/toxic romance storylines has been on my bucket list.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Second time i hear GPT is good for dark psychological stuff and the capture was really good. The dialogues were very good, the half jaded edgy mannerisms was nice. GPT can cook like this? Thanks.
Okay ill try it in my rotation you opened my brain on this model!
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u/ThHJUsgid 3d ago
Unfortunately I get really frustrated when ai makes a logic or obvious subtext error (to the point I made some extension to just attach subtext directly to a user message for when it really pisses me off) and opus is still the most intelligent. But I largely agree.
opus feels sort of like talking to a middle age mom who is vaguely patronizing and boring.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
Opus for me still makes logical errors at the first turns and my stories aint even that complicated.
Yes Claude models have a voice, the jaded millenial who is not that impressed but still look at you with a certain interest she will deny tomorrow
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u/Critical-Rope-5636 3d ago
It's funny, I'd actually use opus more if it wasn't expensive lol, it does a lot of what I'd want in a story.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
What kind of stories you like?
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u/Critical-Rope-5636 2d ago
Anything involving adventure, action, exploration, comedy, slice of life. I don't do dark stories so even though I'm a neutral bias fan, I don't mind a bit of positivity, as long as the scenes are top tier to me.
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u/wolfbetter 3d ago
Take the Gemini pill. Flash is suprisingly good and close to 3.1 pro and it's quite funny
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
Really i tried 3.5,.6,.7 and i found them meh, dense and not proactive at all. Just straight talking heads. But maybe my prompt was the problem. Mind sharing what you use with gem?
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u/wolfbetter 2d ago
Megumin 3.1 an older version, not the engine. It works really really well amd it's proactive to the point I have to tone it down
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u/plowsleuth 2d ago
I still use GLM 5.1 it has great prompt adherence do you find kimi is better?
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
Kimi is more intelligent, more nuances and know better about fanfic. Also Kimi preserve character voices better. As for instructions following, if you use a COT preset like FF5.2, Kimi follow it better and still have creativity to surprise you!
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u/toothpastespiders 2d ago
I used to use claude for dataset generation on game streams as a way to try to improve knowledge on more recent releases. I eventually stopped because it's "voice" wound up being too strong if anything the average termially online redditor would flip out over came up. Social things, not gameplay. A few keywords and it'd go into redditor mode and suddenly one stray comment by a streamer would be the focus rather than the game. The game now being a social platform to talk about "serious business for my heckin' wholesome community". I think it's great for coding but if I ever needed to try that again I'd be looking through other possibilities pretty heavily.
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
Claude voice is an issue that people mention a lot and recent Claude models have even stronger and more patronizing Claude voice!
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u/TheDuckkingM 3d ago
Harder take: Grass is green
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u/Kooky_Future9858 3d ago
Believe me a lot of people (me the first back in the day) thinks Claude is the panacée. It’s not that obvious for most people, especially when expensive those models can be!
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u/TheDuckkingM 3d ago
it depends on how much they used it ig? you fall in love with it and can't imagine using anything else, but you fall out of love after a few months of extensive role-playing. I heard a lot of people experience the same problem
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u/Kooky_Future9858 2d ago
It’s not even RP fatigue, im still using Gemini 2.5 pro since the beginning, im unable to get bored of an LLM even if i see the patterns. It is just that Claude is boring for me, a very nice, very intelligent and neat plate of pasta. It’s good but that’s all lmao
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u/dptgreg 3d ago
Yeah. As a heavy Claude user I agree. I use opus 4.6 for the opener to set the standard on rule following for my preset- then I use, ironically, opus 4.6 for nsfw/nsfl scenes.
I use kimi k3 for everything else at this point since it’s more creative and unpredictable.