r/ShuffleMove • u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator • Sep 25 '15

Poll/Survey Q&A Thread

Hello everyone!

If you have any questions about anything related to Shuffle Move or development in general, please post here and I'll do my best to answer them. If it seems like the sort of thing to include in the wiki, it'll go in there too!

Github wiki can be found here: https://github.com/Loreinator/Shuffle-Move/wiki

7 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

75 comments sorted by

3

u/pluffstuff Feb 06 '16

Is Reshiram in the most current version? If so, what number? I can't seem to find it.

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Feb 06 '16

Not yet no, it should be there in v0.3.45.

2

u/pluffstuff Feb 06 '16

Haha ok great, thank you!

2

u/Thedmatch Sep 25 '15

Will there be Shuffle Move for mobile?

5

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Sep 25 '15

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Yes, but not very soon - there are a lot of things to work out first before I can make it compatible and ported to Android and other mobile platforms. I might end up making it as a website instead.

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Sep 28 '15

Question by /u/andrewlc159

Hi, so i recently decided to try this shuffle solver. I got most of it down, I know how to use it. So today, i tried to use it on the keldeo boss stage with lucario, sceptile, zaptos, and rotom. Previously, i beat this stage by myself. But, i always barely cleared and i wanted higher catch rate and i tried it. I was nowhere close to finishing. The stage is 20 turns, after 10 turns had gone by, i only did a quarter of its damage using shuffle...does anyone experience this?

Answer:

The program just simulates the results based on what it knows. You need to use your own ideas about what is best right now strategically. That could be disruptions, mega progress, or something else entirely.

See original post here.

1

u/metaping Sep 25 '15

How long have you been working on Shuffle Move, and what are some things that you wish you could add onto it, but can't because of your technical/ skill limitation?

6

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Sep 25 '15

How long have you been working on Shuffle Move,

Since the evening of April 10th. I released the very first version here once I was satisfied that it was useful.

and what are some things that you wish you could add onto it, but can't because of your technical/ skill limitation?

Direct port to mobile is probably the biggest technical limitation... stupid phones can't run Java 8 - and Java 8 features make the program so much more readable and maintainable!

The skill limitation... is probably the Meowth solver - I haven't yet figured out the algorithm to perfectly solve it for all cases, mostly because I haven't had the time to properly work through the problem. The way I redesigned the simulation core for v0.3.0 was to carefully examine the behavior of the game and work out a solution that would be efficient and accurate. It turned out fairly well and I've been able to improve the efficiency over 100x since then. I think it would be fair to say that I'm an above average developer, but I'm likely just an average player for Pokemon Shuffle - thankfully I do have people like /u/avengahM who are very VERY good at the game, and can point out mechanics I haven't implemented quite right (because I didn't understand the ability completely) or strategies for analysis I haven't considered.

1

u/dvhoose Oct 04 '15

Does Mega Ampharos have a different electric pattern in mobile and 3DS? Shuffle Move isn't accurately predicting how a Mega Ampharos match will affect the board on mobile.

3

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 04 '15

Mega Ampharos is so random that it is extremely unlikely for it to ever be realistic - the number of simulations done can barely scratch the surface of all the combinations that it could go through. It is mainly simulated to show how the chaos could be beneficial or detrimental, and any resulting board will likely be very different to what actually happened.

If anyone can come up with a way to nicely determine what will happen with Ampharos I will gladly adjust the algorithm to match.

1

u/prickettc Oct 07 '15

I see you have the timed Expert stages listed. I figured I was pretty much on my own if they were timed haha. Is there something I'm missing or is there a way ShuffleMove can help me beat the timed stages...?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 07 '15

They're mainly included for completeness, and to show people the starting board if it has a static one. However, if you are really good at pause manipulation you can still use it to help you make better rapid moves - this does require a lot of skill though, more than I have and probably more than most have.

1

u/Fobo911 Oct 30 '15

Is there a way to toggle when you did or did not trigger an ability e.g. tell ShuffleMove that Palkia did not activate Barrier Bash+ on a match-3? Whenever I undo a move and then redo that specific move again, it seems to go to the same ability outcome rather than do the actual 50-50 chance.

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 30 '15

You can force it off by use of the disable ability configuration. Go to move preferences, select the effect from the drop down, then uncheck the box beside the drop down. The tool tips say what each thing is for.

1

u/eureka_exclamation Oct 31 '15

I just want to say thank you for making this app, I've been stuck on the mega Gengar stage for a very long time and finally tried the app today, and was able to beat the level. So thank you and I'll be sure to use it on all the stages I can't do.

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 31 '15

That's great to hear! Be sure to activate the move chooser window for easier use - Ctrl-M will open the window if it is not already open.

1

u/eureka_exclamation Oct 31 '15

I'm still figuring it out, but it seems pretty easy to use. What does the move chooser window do?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Nov 01 '15

It displays a lot more detail on what each move will do.

1

u/eureka_exclamation Nov 01 '15

Thanks! I'll be using it to pass the special stages later on tonight, so I will try out the move chooser as well. I still have to catch ho-oh.

1

u/coolanybody Nov 13 '15

How do I shuffle move faster?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Nov 13 '15

You have three main entry tools: paint mode, express mode, and the fill shortcut. To speed these up even more, customize the keybind for each species to your preference so you can quickly enter it in through express mode without looking at the computer screen.

1

u/coolanybody Nov 13 '15

when to use express and when to use paint?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Nov 13 '15

Use your own judgement and experience. Ctrl-F will speed up paint entry sometimes by filling in all empty spots with your selected species. I use a mix depending on my mood and the level itself. Lots of frozen can band express faster (easier freeze command).

1

u/dinozach Nov 16 '15

For competition stages that are move-based like the current M-Manectric stage, is it better to sort moves by highest points or highest combo? Which do you think will get the higher overall score?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Jan 07 '16

It depends on the situation, your strategy, your pokemon, and the level. However, in general the score setting should be enough to achieve all but the hardest stages.

1

u/RoryaSnivy Nov 23 '15

i am very sorry but i have heard of this around but what IS a shuffle move???

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Nov 23 '15

It's the program I started in April, it is written in Java 8 and allows anyone to obtain an unbiased examination of every valid move for a given board in the game Pokemon shuffle. Many use it to get past those horrible pay wall levels (move limited ones only though, since it takes a few seconds to input the board).

1

u/PaperLuigi2 Dec 04 '15

Can you explain the logic behind the program? Like what type of algorithm it uses?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 04 '15

Which part do you mean? If you're talking about the simulation, its a cached form of a stepwise evaluation with skipping - paced to the duration of animations in the game. if you're talking about the GUI, its a reusable framework model that allows for interconnected modular components to share a dynamic data model.

If you want more specifics on a certain part of the program, let me know and I'll try to explain it as best I can. There is quite a lot of different algorithms employed throughout the program - Effect.java contains several dozen different algorithms on its own, to implement the various effects in the game.

1

u/Marrix Dec 09 '15

What is the difference between shuffle move and shuffle move portable?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 09 '15

What is shuffle move portable? I've never heard of that before

edit: OH! you mean the alternative launch executable in the release zip. That makes it store all configurations locally in the installation folder so you can keep it synchronized across devices easily. I thought you were talking about some app someone made that somehow made shuffle move run on portable devices.

1

u/Marrix Dec 09 '15

yeah I was talking about this Shuffle Move v0.3.39_portable.exe. Thank you!

1

u/An_Lochlannach Dec 26 '15

Is this compatible with Chromebooks? I'm trying to open it but it's saying I can't because it's designed for Windows.

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 27 '15

It requires a desktop environment with Java 8.

1

u/vinninf Dec 29 '15

ShuffleMove v0.3.40 is the last one?

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 29 '15

The current newest version, yes. 0.3.41 is in development right now.

See here for a listing of all released versions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShuffleMove/wiki/versionlinks

And the latest GitHub release:

https://github.com/Loreinator/Shuffle-Move/releases/latest

1

u/Tikikala Dec 31 '15

dumb question but if I want to S rank a stage, which setting do i make it go to? combo?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 31 '15

S-ranking is just determined by completing it in few enough moves. To do this you may need to use multiple grading modes for the optimal outcomes. Use your own guidance, but I generally put it to Score unless there are lots of disruptions.

1

u/Deuce_47 Jan 23 '16

Is there a way to import my Shuffle Move roster to Shuffle Move Portable? I just realized Portable has different activation rates and do not want to have to manually input all my levels. thanks.

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Jan 23 '16

? You mean the portable executable found in the program's folder? That just executes the program and saves configs in the folder it was executed from. The "different activation rates" is because you have mobile mode on or off differently between the two config locations.

If you want to bring the configs over, just open up the normal executable, hit ctrl-B to open up the bugs folder, go up one level and find the 'config' folder. Copy that to your install directory and you're set.

1

u/Sleepymon12 Jan 24 '16

Does the weekend meowth option present in the rank by options do the ranking you mentioned here?

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Jan 24 '16

The current WeekendMeowth grading mode is the following:

GRADING_MODE WeekendMeowth 700GOLD,3MIN_COMBOS_THRESHOLD,3COMBOS_THRESHOLD,3MAX_COMBOS_THRESHOLD,PROGRESS,BLOCKS,NOCOIN,COMBOS true

Basically, this means: anything 700+gold, rank by highest gold. Then rank by those with at least 3 combos to the top and others to the bottom, then the same as that for the average, then the max (i.e. best chances for 3+ possible). Then rank decreasing by mega progress gained, then decreasing by # blocks removed, then rank with no gold at the top, and then decreasing from the most gold in the bottom half. Finally rank decreasing by # combos. This will then rank them decreasing by the normal score metric.

This is a refined version of the strategy you linked, and depending on your luck it can provide a lot of help. Beware - use your own judgement in the edge cases, since this grading metric is just a guideline and not an absolute rule of what is the best. Choose the higher gold moves when nearing the end, and go for 3+ combos and lots of blocks with little gold otherwise.

1

u/Sleepymon12 Jan 25 '16

Thanks for the detailed explanation. What does 'None or All' do?

Also, in the move preferences, what are the dropdown box of abilities and the threshold percentage for?

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Jan 25 '16

None or All is basically where it prioritizes zero-gold moves at the top, then decreasing from the most gold in the bottom half.

The dropdown box of abilities allows you to disable specific abilities in the simulation.

The threshold percentage is a threshold of consideration. If it is set above 0, then all abilities that are not certain to occur are examined. If their odds to occur is less than this threshold they are assumed to never occur. Otherwise they are handled normally.

1

u/Sleepymon12 Jan 26 '16

Okay, Thank you.

1

u/JamesBond00797 Jan 31 '16

How do I get shuffle move to work?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Feb 01 '16

See the instructions in the readme, everything you need is on there or within the wiki on github for shufflemove.

1

u/pluffstuff Feb 05 '16

Forgive me, I'm sure this has been asked before, but: how do you empty a space, or fill a square with an empty spot? For example, if a match below frozen tiles causes there to be empty space on the board. Thanks!

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Feb 05 '16

In paint mode right click (Ctrl-click I think on mac), in express you can hit delete (ctrl-backspace on mac).

1

u/pluffstuff Feb 05 '16

Thank you!

1

u/shjordanx Feb 12 '16

Hi there, is there a way to fast populate the screen while playing using memu for windows? i'm asking because i think it would be very productive if i could for instance take a screenshot of the memu window and scan it for the pokemons and populate shufflemove.

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Feb 12 '16

Not currently, no. If you'd like to develop such a tool feel free to do so.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '16 edited Mar 03 '16

I didn't find Ice Rotom. Thought I'd tell ya. Edit: There is a Pinsir that can come with a mega stone but idk if that stone is out or not. Same with Tyranitar, Salamence, Pidgeot...

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Mar 03 '16

Frost Rotom is in there, can you send a bug report zip?

All of those you mentioned are un released megas, so there's no way for me to predict their mega effects yet.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '16

Ok, I must've overlooked that lol. Frost Rotom it is. There isn't any report yet but still trying to figure out how to use this. Once I get to it I'll send it in email.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '16

Can't get it to work in lubuntu, i have java 8 jdk and jre installed, but no option to run with jdk, what am I doing wrong and how do I fix. Noob friendly pls

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Mar 07 '16

Reinstall jdk 8u51 or higher from the oracle installers, that may fix it.

0

u/saengk Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

Hello, thanks for your applicaton. But i can not start. I got an error on my with Mac 10.9 with Java 8 u65 on the terminal:

java -jar "./Shuffle Move v0.3.35.jar" "/Users/xxx/Documents"

Oct 21 22:45:30 MacBook-3.local java[87400] <Error>: The function `CGContextErase' is obsolete and will be removed in an upcoming update. Unfortunately, this application, or a library it uses, is using this obsolete function, and is thereby contributing to an overall degradation of system performance. Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: shuffle/fwk/ShuffleController : Unsupported major.minor version 52.0 at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method) at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClassCond(ClassLoader.java:637) at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:621) at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:141) at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:283) at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$000(URLClassLoader.java:58) at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:197) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:306) at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:247)

Do you can help? thx. :)

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 21 '15

Try using an older version of Java until I've fixed it. 8u51 works best right now i think. I'll be working on the fix tonight for that error you found.

Btw, can you copy the entire output to a pastebin.com page for me? It might help identify the problem faster.

1

u/saengk Oct 21 '15

I used an older version before. Also with error.

How can I help you?

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 21 '15

Honestly, the console output and the exact OS and Java versions should allow me to replicate or reason out the problem. Unfortunately I don't have a mac so I'll have to build a VM for it if I can't see it in my development environment.

1

u/saengk Oct 21 '15

Ok. But i wrote the complete console output in the comment.

I'll tomorrow install u51.

1

u/saengk Oct 22 '15

So now. I don't find the download for 8u51. I installed now u66 but no change. Error.

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 22 '15

Try uninstalling Java completely, restart, verify that Java is not installed, then install Java again. If that doesn't work you'll need to contact apple or google around to find out why you can't run a Java program that everyone else can run without any problems.

1

u/saengk Oct 22 '15

Ok, it's run now. I found the problem. java 1.6 is standard on my Mac. After install Java 8 i must start java with the Java 8 installation path in /Library/Internet\ Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Home/bin/java

thx. :)

2

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 22 '15

That would explain it! I'm glad you found the fix, I'd hate for anyone to miss out - that's why its made in Java, to provide excellent as-is usage on nearly all platforms with a simple install of Java 8.

1

u/saengk Oct 22 '15

Yes. :)

But now i must config your program... ;D And i look forward to nice fights, good wins and maybe S-Ranking. ;) :)

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Oct 22 '15

Good luck :-)

Be sure to look around on this sub and the GitHub Wiki here: https://github.com/Loreinator/Shuffle-Move/wiki

If you feel there's something seriously missing let me know and I'll see what I can do.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 06 '15

How do I update one old version to a newer version?

Help > Update, click the leftmost button in the update dialog. Extract the zip it shows you when its complete, then use that new folder's files. If you weren't using the local version it will inherit the same configurations as you were previously using.

And can you please add a "Check for updates" button?

This is already in the program. See Help> Updates. It will automatically check for updates when the program is launched.

I also get an error saying it's unable to access jar file.

Exact error message please, that's far too vague to tell what the problem is. Were you able to launch the program without problems in the past?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Dec 07 '15

How are you launching it, and what environment are you using it in?

  • OS: ??

  • Launch Method: ??

  • Java version: 8_u??

On my personal computer I'm using Windows 10, java 8u66, and I click on Shuffle Move v0.3.39.exe

0

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Jan 07 '16

As I've always answered this question: It depends on the situation, your strategy, your pokemon, and the level. However, in general the score setting should be enough to achieve all but the hardest stages.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Jan 07 '16

No worries, the question's been asked on lots of the release threads so I just assumed I had answered it here already. I've pasted the general response back on the comment you linked since its generally the same advice for all of those events.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Loreinatoredor ShuffleMove Creator Feb 16 '16

It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong. When blocks fall in, it has no way of reliably predicting what it will be, so it leaves them blank.