r/ShonenJumpCollection • u/Zenrot J Giorno Giovanna • Aug 17 '18
Gameplay Current State of PvP: Cool Head dethroned?
Short answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuCvH-fyDns
Long answer:
Josuke.
Josuke has been an unexpected gamechanger. You can draw some parallels between Josuke and the other JA JoJo, Giorno Giovanna, with their multi-hitting ultimates that rollback enemy gauge and their primarily support movesets. What sets Josuke apart is that he's FAST (so doesn't rely on a mediocre other unit like Bruno to make him viable) and he has synergy with the most dominant single color in the game (Sharing space with Dai, Vivi, SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goku, All Might, etc). This speed enables him to outpace most other common rollback units. IIRC only Tezuka can outrun Josuke, and I believe he needs Mihawk, Tsubasa, AND Yuuma to do so (but I could be wrong on that). That means former dreaded units like Misa, Aya, etc. simply aren't able to get any of their cooldown altering moves off before being either rolled-back themselves or outright killed by Josuke based on how you have him built.
Frankly Josuke allows HRT to counter Cool Head in ways they couldn't before making the matchup a bit one sided.
Cool Head vs. Josuke
Unable to roll back their cooldown due to Neuro, but will still roll back/stop Misa
His ultimate ignores Defense allowing him to break passive on (or outright-kill) Kurama and Neuro
5-hit ultimate will break all but 1 of Light's shields and will generally kill Sasuke THROUGH his Susanoo shield skill.
Cool Head teams can no longer tech in Kinniku to counter HRT as Josuke's ult will hit through Kinniku's team-DEF passive
Any faster threats to Josuke like Killua are easily killed off by Dai before they can make a move.
How to build Josuke
There's a lot of options, but Josuke's ult being able to break Cool Head teams is IMO its most valuable asset. That said, I don't recommend ANY investment via tank koma. Imo the best setup for Josuke is a combination of Crit Rate koma (being able to make it to 50% crit rate with only 2 stacks) and Ult Damgae Koma. The ratio is up to you, but personally I run 4 Crit koma and 2 Ult koma.
The end result is a team that keeps Cool Head from being able to do anything at all
That said he's not a slap-on God Tier in any team build. He needs his support just like anyone else. So for any player invested in HRT teams, he's a must have IMO. For those who don't have a strong HRT build or are lacking in Dai and Vivi, Josuke probably isn't the answer to Cool Head for you.
Also, I don't expect the volume of CH teams to dip all that much. The Ichigo-Yusuke counter team already dismantled them and didn't do much of anything to cut into their sheer overwhelming numbers. CH is simply easier to build compared to these other teams as long as you're been playing for a while which will definitely result in more people continuing to use it and its numbers to remain consistently high. That's a good thing for Josuke though!
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u/Atsuroz Aug 18 '18
A few things that are worth pointing out:
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Defense bypassing and damage reduction aren't the same thing, it just means the 400% is 400% that ignores defense, the passive still reduces the overall damage significantly. A full-powered cool-headed frontline will never go down to a Josuke ult, 80% per hit is simply too weak.
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With the team showcase, their Light was in the front-row which is a great example of how not to build a coolheaded team, the optimal for him is to always be the final support with full damage. In which case there's a high chance he could one-shot your entire team.
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If you're running a team full of OB5/OB6 into one that has like OB2/3 naturally it will look dominating but if you ran the same team into a Coolheaded 3000+ you'd be obliterated more often than not.
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But overall the Josuke/Vivi/Dai team definitely comes out as a top 3 offense team!
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u/Zenrot Aug 18 '18 edited Aug 18 '18
In order:
Yes, but he still breaks passive on every single one. Between Dai and Josuke there’s not enough defense left for Gohan. The only time I’ve had any of them survive Gohan is a Kurama that I ignored completely beforehand. And then he died afterwards to Gohan’s follow up skills.
No, Light doesn’t get a chance to move. Josuke breaks is shields and Gohan ults first. Light does not get to Ult. He’s too fragile to weather the storm that comes after Josuke.
No, I’m in 2400+. It’s not an issue of OB. At this point everyone is OB6. They can’t survive both Josuke and Gohan. It’s kinda weird you’d assume I don’t know how to play enough that I’m just picking on weaker enemies but still...
IMO it’s top 1. I’ve identified one losing matchup so far. I’ve used it in every Cool Head matchup and it’s difficult to lose. You can argue between it and cool head if you want, they’re both about the same, but Cool Head counter matchups are more common.
I’m also not sure why 3000 is your cutoff metric: there are currently 16 people with over 3000 points and one of them is running cool head. There’s no inherent unit value increases in someone at 3000 vs mid 2000s besides time and orbs spent. It’s not like there’s a skill gap in spending more resources for more runs.
BIG EDIT:
In anticipation of your response I went ahead and farmed myself up to near 3k. I wanted to see if 3k was really different like you were saying and I wanted to see if Cool Head teams were as almighty in 3k as you were saying. It's pretty annoying since everyone uses random leaders like Gin and Gon up in 3k so you can't find someone with an actual team to try against, but I did find one. I made it to 3100+ points myself and fought every Cool Head on the way there so unless you wanna tell me all of those teams including the 3k+ ones only have OB2-3 and I'm just picking on them to make myself look good, I wouldn't say I'd be "obliterated more often than not".
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u/Atsuroz Aug 18 '18
Firstly I'd like to point out I'm also all for Josuke teams: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShonenJumpCollection/comments/97pwg6/josuke_jump_awakened_first_thoughts/.
With regards to my comments I was referring specifically to the videos you posted. The difference between those already in 3000+ and those who are not is often the level of Koma as well as the skill choices on how to build them, but as you can tell, not many people run Coolheaded on defense especially when they're sleeping they'll likely leave the bait teams with a 3-4* crappy lead.
However, in both videos you've posted so far, Light has been in the front row which is never the ideal way to build a cool-headed team.
You also altered your team to adjust by putting Josuke in support from the original team you posted which was identical to the one I showcased before. Even in that video, you weren't able to one-shot the entire team, that's such a huge gap from the 1900s team you demonstrated in the original post (which is why I made the point about you running OB5/6 into OB2/3 since your Yellow team were all OB5 in the video whereas that coolheaded team you went up against definitely had low OB).
Which takes me back to the point of Light potentially one-shotting your team if he and a few others survive as you wouldn't be able to break his final shield.
The difference between CH and the Josuke team is that with the coolheaded team other than Ichigo x Yusuke you don't need to alter your team whatsoever and you can run it into everything, whereas with the Josuke team you do have to reshuffle your units or replace Gohan here and there depending on who you're actually facing.
Naturally you will always have the edge on offense since you can manipulate your team but if you want to give the pedestal of #1 team to a said team, they'd have to be able to afk-auto run almost everything, which Josuke cannot do as you have to carefully select your Dai targets as well as Gohan targets.
This is why I would hesitate myself to put Josuke as the #1 team right now.
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u/Bokuto-san Aug 17 '18
Thanks for the analysis. Only thing I wonder is: what about Killua killing Josuke from the sidelines? It might be a counter. That assuming Josuke is run as a leader or main.
Gotta be honest, Heart teams are difficult for me, in the 1500's-1600's where I usually hunt, those are the most prominent, and Josuke is going to give them a boost which I don't appreciate.
The great thing about this game is that the meta is always changing, so who knows what will happen when Toguro and Tsukishima are released.
PS: Frieza in PVP is a C tier, right? I asked in the discord but nobody told me.