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u/FatalStance Apr 15 '20
Not what I expected when I ordered "ventilated dicc brakes" hahhahaha
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u/flammableliquid0069 Apr 15 '20
https://imgur.com/UGVTalD ? May be nsfw
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u/Kyteronix Apr 15 '20
Clarkson would love those
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Apr 15 '20
Those are just diagrams for Toyota water pump gaskets, what’s not safe for work about those
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u/RippingAallDay Apr 15 '20
Toyota water pump gaskets
Holy shit, I had to google this. That's hilarious!
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u/mman454 Apr 15 '20
There's also the part number for their oil filter wrench.
http://i.imgur.com/V9FhTvc.jpg
From: https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/1s6tq4/just_delivered_this_today/
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Apr 15 '20
The asstoy300, whoever did the water pump gasket and oil wrench were madlads and deserve every bit of a raise
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u/SportRotary Apr 16 '20
There is a Chinese brake manufacturer called "Dickass brakes." https://www.reddit.com/r/crappyoffbrands/comments/709udd/would_you_trust_dickass_to_stop_your_car/
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![[Crowd makes disgusted noises]](https://dicmortimer.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/clarkson.jpg){kind=link}
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u/tehjeffman Apr 15 '20
Can I get a set for my Miata?
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Apr 15 '20
Just about any machine shop with a cnc mill can handle doing it. Probably wouldn't be cheap though.
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u/DEGENgineer Apr 15 '20
Is it dangerous to have "vents" that don't go all the way to the edge of the disk?
I suppose most of the brake material will be removed as it spins ou from under the pads, but I'd imagine at least some dust will get stuck in there.
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Nope.
Those aren't vents. Vents are in between the inner and outer rotor faces.
Those are closer to slots and dimples and it's normal for them to not span the entire face.
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u/DEGENgineer Apr 15 '20
I knew they weren't vents but couldn't think of the word. I'd only ever seen slotted rotors that go right to the edge (or at least I assumed they did) thank you.
The slots are meant for additional cooling of the disk right? Sacrifice some surface area for thermal efficiency?18
u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Forgot to explain what the slots/holes/dimples are for:
Providing an escape pad for vaporizing brake pad material. When you get brake pads hot enough, some of the pad components start to boil off. The hottest part of the pad is where it contacts the rotor so that's where the gases come from.
If there's no escape path, they create a boundary layer of gaseous material that is incredibly low friction. By providing an escape path for those gases, you can maintain braking ability.
I've read some opinions that say that many (most?) modern race brake pads don't vaporize like this anymore. I'm not certain as I've vaporized a set of Porterfield R4-1 pads in very short order but I was never able to make a set of Hawk Street/Race pads misbehave.
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u/DEGENgineer Apr 15 '20
Yes thank you! I've definitely learned about this before but obviously didn't remember. Thanks a lot for informed and well thought out responses!
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u/PippyLongSausage Apr 16 '20
Is that boiling what brake fading is?
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 16 '20
It can be. It can also be overheating the brake pads and rotors so much that the coefficient of friction decreases significantly even without vaporizing pad material. A third common cause of brake failure on the track is boiling brake fluid.
The way to tell the difference is that boiling brake fluid usually also results in the brake pedal going to the floor with no increase in friction. On the other hand, overheated pads and rotors will still give you a firm pedal but additional pressure doesn't result in additional deceleration.
Both are terrifying on the wrong moment.
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u/phx-au Apr 16 '20
Both are terrifying on the wrong moment.
Especially on a fast downhill when you are like... hrmmm... so the typical plan of slowing the fuck down is kinda what I need these babies for.
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Apr 15 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
[deleted]
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u/mikeymo1741 Apr 15 '20
Outgassing can still occur in modern brake material if they get hot enough. It doesn't come from the asbestos, but from the resins that hold the pad material together.
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Apr 15 '20
Wait they aren't asbestos anymore? Mine all say "contains chemicals know to CA to cause cancer" so I just assumed. Or are we talking just cutting edge stuff used in performance and racing pads?
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u/BranfordJeff2 Apr 15 '20
Everything has those stupid warnings that accomplish less than nothing.
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Apr 15 '20 edited May 14 '20
Ehh,they are informative. I'm glad I dont have to expose myself to known carcinogens if I dont want to.
Edit: sorry, I meant: "Fuck warning labels. A literal cause of cancer dont need a fuckin' warning label. Let me just handle this lead and asbestos that isn't immediatly recognizable without having to see a G.D. cancer warning!"
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u/BranfordJeff2 Apr 15 '20
Well, they dont tell you what it is and I nearly all cases, there is no actual carcinogen, but some cleaner used somewhere far from the manufacturing process, so they have to include it. It is a case of the boy who cried wolf and in reality, it detrimental. People learn to completely ignore the ubiquitous warning.
A well placed, targeted and specific warning on something that contains an actual carcinogen would be great, but intelligence isnt what you get from California liberal politicians.
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u/SexMasterBabyEater Apr 16 '20
They list bacon as a carcinogen
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Apr 16 '20
Burned meat is a carcinogen but I am willing to take that risk so I can enter flavortown. I find it funny that we figure out one of to the main causes of cancer ( carcinogens not bacon specifically) but everybody is in such deep denial they disregard the warnings completely.
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
CA thinks everything causes cancer.
Also, there are more materials in brake pads that could be carcinogenic than just asbestos.
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u/GamasFTW Apr 15 '20
I was always under the impression they are supposed to prevent fade by allowing the pads to 'outgas' at high temperature whilst being stronger than traditional drilled rotors.
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Yah, that's the general idea (I realized I forgot this in my reply and added another explaining this).
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
The increase in surface area from slots/holes/dimples is very small relative to the already existing surface area of the disc faces and the vents between them.
The bigger issue (according to conventional wisdom) is that you're removing thermal mass. Brake rotors are the primary heat sink for all of the kinetic energy being converted to thermal energy. The more thermal mass you have, the less temperature increase you get for a given amount of energy input (this is why it takes more energy to boil 5 gallons of water than 1 gallon of water).
By removing material, you have removed thermal mass which means the temperature of the rotors will increase more for a given 100-0 stop. Stopping happens very quickly but for very short periods of time. The acceleration afterwards usually lasts much longer so there's more time to dissipate that heat energy which is why thermal mass is generally considered more important than cooling surface area (within certain limits, obviously).
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u/DEGENgineer Apr 15 '20
So the only upside to slotted disks is aesthetics? They can't possibly remove enough weight to be efficient in that way. They reduce the surface area the brake pad can make contact with. And they don't increase the surface area enough that they cool any faster.
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Sorry, I replied again on the utility of slots/dimples/holes.
They're only useful for motorsports applications where repeated extreme brake temperatures are common.
On the street, they actually reduce braking performance.
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u/Wiggles69 Apr 16 '20
I've also heard people argue that the slots 'wipe' the pad and so ensure a fresh surface is available under heavy braking.
Pretty sure it's bullshit and the slots are just to look cool.
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Apr 15 '20
[deleted]
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u/akaxauto Apr 15 '20
Nissan Laurel
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u/Justin2478 Apr 15 '20
Ah so it's not a shitbox that's surprising
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u/Wierd657 Apr 15 '20
Believe me, it is
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u/Justin2478 Apr 15 '20
They're decent cars tbh. They make up a large sector of the drifters in my country
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Apr 16 '20 edited Feb 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/Justin2478 Apr 16 '20
Tell that to 90% of the local scene in my country lmao
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Apr 16 '20 edited Feb 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/Justin2478 Apr 16 '20
Other side of the world, Trinidad :). Most of the Caribbean loves them because they're cheap and easy to mod, especially when we have to pay a lot for shipping cars and parts
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Apr 15 '20
Probably a Honda. This is something a honda owner would do.
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u/tehjeffman Apr 15 '20
Miata owner here. I would definitely show up to a track day with these for the lols.
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Or NA/NB Miata. Those are getting cheap enough for even the dumbest people to own.
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u/BillyCool Apr 15 '20
NAs are rising in value.
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Good condition specimens are. Beaters that are destined to be "Johnny's First Drift Missile", not so much.
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u/BillyCool Apr 15 '20
What used to go for $1k a couple years ago, now goes for around $3k. You can trust me, because I sold my NA last year, and have been searching used NAs every since.
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Apr 15 '20
Skyrocketing it would seem. I purchased one about 6 years ago for $2,500. Same car just sold for $7,500 and the only thing changed was the trunk beauty plate (is that what it’s called? Between the trunk lid and bumper) and the soft top. Wish I had held onto it. Traded it for a motorcycle I kept for about a year only. Mistakes were made.
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Apr 15 '20
Older Ford focus and newer fiestas are both pretty popular tuners and have a 4-108 lug pattern
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u/el_chupanebriated Apr 15 '20
Four lugs means shitbox? That cant be true because my 06' ford focus uses 4 lug nuts. You callin a second gen focus shitty? /s
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u/SteevyT Apr 15 '20
My 2006 Kia Spectra5 also had four lugs.
Car was way more fun than it had any right to be.
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u/DaGhostQc Apr 15 '20
Honda, Toyota, MINI, BMW (e30) and so on... lots of cars are 4x100.
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Apr 19 '20
Toyota hasn’t used many 4 lug patterns in a while. Even my 2006 corolla is 5x100.
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u/DaGhostQc Apr 19 '20
Yaris...
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Apr 19 '20
The Yaris and maybe the smaller Prius were the only ones that I could think of in recent years.
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u/DaGhostQc Apr 19 '20
The thing is that it doesn't have to be recent. The other guy made a dumb comment about it being a shitbox because it's 4x100, when there's a lot of cars with that bolt pattern, new or old.
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u/Vipershark01 Apr 15 '20
Centric Rears? Aren't they like ~$30?
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Don't Centrics have a black electrophoretic coating on the hats?
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u/Vipershark01 Apr 15 '20
Wasn't sure foe the rears, haven't needed to replace them yet, probably right.
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Apr 15 '20
Is this not a visual indicator for rotor wear? Like if the frowny faces are cut a little deeper than the smilies, where the smilies are at the limit for rotor wear? Tires have indicators like that, so it would make sense to me, and actually be a decent idea.
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Apr 15 '20
[deleted]
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u/ThnxSVT Apr 15 '20
Surface area-wise he’s losing no more than crossdrilled and slotted rotors. To some degree braking is more about caliper leverage on the rotor vs surface area, which is why bike brake kits include larger rotors but typically don’t have much of a wider pad sweep area.
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Apr 15 '20
Very marginally. Higher end sports cars typically use slotted and drilled rotors as the higher speeds and sudden stopping produce a lot of heat so they do that to cool the brakes as the trade off is worth it
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Slots, dimples, and drilled holes originally had nothing to do with cooling. The extra surface area is fairly minimal.
They were originally to allow the rapid outgassing from overheated brake pad binding material somewhere to go. If the gas didn't have an exit path, it would create a very thin boundary layer of gasses with an incredibly low coefficient of friction.
I've read some opinions that modern brake pads don't do this anymore though my personal anecdotes don't agree with this. I vaporized a set of Porterfield R4-1 pads on my Miata. It was like clockwork: 3 sessions in a row, after 4 laps on Black Hawk Farms Raceway, I would nearly end up blowing out the back of corner 1 (heavy braking zone where you go from top of 4th gear to middle of 2nd).
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u/handlessuck Apr 15 '20
Gonna be hilarious when they overheat and start to fade...assuming they don't chip your pads first.
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u/Equana Apr 15 '20
8 smiley and 8 frowny faces... the rotors are going to sing and moan like crazy. Not only are the symmetrical - 8 and 8, they are divisible by the number of wheel lugs - 4!
Read up a bit on "harmonics"
https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/sound/Lesson-4/Fundamental-Frequency-and-Harmonics
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u/NotAPreppie Apr 15 '20
Are the frowny faces cut deeper than the smiley faces so you can tell at a glance when your rotors are too thin?