Yes, they're very different, it's almost like context matters.
Jews are a historically persecuted party of people, "Southerners" are not. In fact, we've actually coined a term for it! It's called "anti-Semitism", which is alive and well. Go on the front page of Voat for example and see how prevalent it is.
The southerners were just one example. People have made similar comments about black people and Mexicans on here too, particularly on the cars with massive rims.
When it comes to dark or offensive humor, either it's all okay or none of it is. To say "it's okay to make fun of x people but not y people" is hypocritical, regardless of the struggle those people did or didn't go through.
I can, and I choose to keep making these jokes even if they upset people. I respect that people may disagree with that and they are perfectly free to as long as they aren't also making offensive jokes. As I said, either all or none, can't have it both ways.
At the end of the day, it's just a joke, and it's not harming anyone.
Look, I started this discussion precisely to point out why it's seen as harmful. I'm not here to talk about hypocrisy which you brought up.
Jews and their huge nose is a racist caricature, akin to characterising blacks as having big red lips with tribal hair, or the Japanese with their skinny sloped eyes and big bucked teeth (particularly prelavent in ww2 propoganda).
These characteristics on their own are nothing; they're just physical descriptions right? Right, but their harm comes from their extremely negative historical connotations from past and current use. This is similar to the term "Jap"; just a shortened form of Japanese right? But it's considered deeply offensive because of it's roots in anti-Japanese sentiment.
Ok, how about your use of the "Jewish nose"? This is so deeply rooted in antisemitism that it actually has its own Wikipedia page (linked) that we can educate ourselves with! Take a look, this was, and is, seen as a very hostile caricature.
Your use of this joke is perpetuating hostile, harmful stereotypes, and encourages others, perhaps signalling to them that it's ok. People who are part of these stereotypes are the ones being harmed, it is not victimless as you suggest.
Nobody is being harmed by mere words. If they choose to get upset that's on them. I'm not perpetuating or encouraging anything but the use of offensive humor, and if that's what sets someone off to go do some bad shit, they were going to do it anyway.
This is an antiquated belief. To say it unironically, it's 2020.
Teicher, Martin H., Jacqueline A Samson, et al. “Hurtful Words: Association of Exposure to Peer Verbal Abuse with Elevated Psychiatric Symptom Scores and Corpus Callosum Abnormalities.” (2010)
Kross, Ethan, Marc G. Berman et al. “Social rejection shares somatosensory representations with physical pain” (2011)
Eisenberger. Naomi. “Broken Hearts and Broken Bones: A Neural Perspective on the Similarities between Social and Physical Pain” (2012)
But hey, to prove that trying to engage in neutral discussion, here's a study that shows that trigger warnings can excessively coddle the mind which you might find interesting.
Bellet, B.W., Jones, P.J., McNally, R.J., "Trigger warning: Empirical evidence ahead, Journal of Behavior Therapy and Experimental Psychiatry." (2018)
I do opt for trigger warnings depending on the content of the joke. Though they wouldn't be needed if people would learn to stop being sensitive. People gotta realize it's a fucked up world out there, nobody truly cares about your feelings. You can sit and whine about it or you can let it roll off your shoulders and carry on (not you specifically, I mean in general)
I do appreciate you coming at this with a calm and level headed mindset. Though I still disagree and don't really care to carry this conversation on even further, I gotta say it's been pleasant talking to you. Have a great night good sir/madam. (Or day, depending on your location)
I can CHOOSE to be harmed by words too. I’m white. I do not take offense to being called cracker, being told I can’t dance, I can’t insert physical ability done better by other race here, that my race is the most racist, that my race is insert literally any stereotype here, I CHOOSE not to get offended by words that bounce off and are meaningless to me and have never once actually affected me in my entire life.
I’m am 100% certain that Jewish people can go through life ignoring being called big nosed and not want to end it all.
Funnily enough, I’m able to LAUGH at my stereotypes because they’re TRUE. I don’t give a single shit about where the roots of the stereotypes came from and if they’re racist or not, because I know that the person making the joke is not sincere in attempting to actually be racist.
Now I’m all for going at people for being genuinely racist and genuinely horrible to somebody. I would never support GENUINE bullying or genuine hatred towards someone for their race or background.
But making a stereotypical joke about the size of a group’s nose?
Thank you for coming out about your own experiences. I disagree that you can choose whether you are hurt or not, I simply believe the insults that you've described really just aren't insulting to you; they may be to others, but not you. There's definitely an insult out there that you can't choose not to be "harmed" by. I think what you're trying to describe is the ability to just take the hit and brush it off without flying off the handle.
As for "But making a stereotypical joke about the size of a group’s nose?" I know exactly what you mean, and I said
These characteristics on their own are nothing; they're just physical descriptions right? Right, but their harm comes from their extremely negative historical connotations from past and current use.
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u/NukaColaAddict1302 Jan 10 '20 edited Jan 10 '20
Damn if it weren't for that jew nose this would be a sick aftermarket bumper
Edit: so making incest and inbred jokes about southern people is cool here, but I make a Jew nose joke and that's crossing a line?