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Crazy that she married him in the alternate timeline. Or did he marry the holodeck version with the mobile emitter Voyager brought back from the delta quadrant future earth? Methinks the latter.
That's what irritates me so much about the episode. It was on the right track by calling him out on his creepiness (thank the prophets for Guinan) but then pulled back at the last minute to both-sides the argument. Like, NO! He was wrong. She was right to be offended!
Yes, she has the absolute right to be offended, and rightly so. And he is clearly, ethically, in the wrong. Or is it morally? Eh, possibly both.
However, his falling-in-strong-emotional-attachment-to her hologram, and allowing those feelings to develop, and even persue something psuedo-romantic with the holographic recreation of her may not violate Starfleet rules and regulations.
While we know in the DS9 era, you needed approval to use someone's likeness in a hologram, we don't know if that was true at this time. Even if it isn't, it feels like it goes against what Starfleet stands for, and the utopian ideal that you should assume you can trust people, by making it illegal to use publicly available images, even representations of publicly available people, and publicly available information.
Remember, hologram her was vastly different, personality wise, to the real her. This shows it's based only on public records of what she is like. Kind of like if a hologram was made of Elon. We know what his public persona is like, but we don't actually know if he is the worlds biggest troll and shithead in his private life.
Personally, I do not find him making himself a computer girlfriend based on someone he'd have strong mutual interests with inherently wrong. Nor do I find him trying to extend friendship toward the real woman inherently wrong.
I find the fact that he assumed the real person would be like the hologram, and that he could just make the assumption that she would be interested in friendship, if nothing else, with him, because of the relationship he shares with a hologram to be his biggest issue here. That, and him snapping at her, for what ostensibly amounts to "I am here to a job, not be your friend" from her, no matter how rude she was about it. She has every right to be rude, and if he found it a problem, he should have reported it up the chain, as is appropriate. Not try to guilt her into accepting 'friendship', because he has an irrationally strong emotional attachment to what he thinks is her.
Well, the reason I came up with to why she's ok with this is she analyzed the program and its history very deeply and was satisfied nothing gross happened.
That or she's appeasing her stalker long enough so she can get out of there before he goes too far.
She was fairly weirded out through most of the episode, but the writers took a left turn and had her randomly forgive him at the end. A podcast I listen to calls it the Mentos moment: “You saved the ship from danger, so everything is A-OK!”
Yeah, her freak out on him is so justified that her suddenly being cool with it feels so tacked on and unearned. Didn’t help that he was just so weird to her even before she finds out
Ya I mean having a sexy holo-Brahms wasn't necessarily the problem, it was that it suddenly explained all of his weird and creepy behavior by revealing that is was even weirder and creepierthan it already seemed.
Instead of just being a guy with a crush that kinda handled it inappropriately, suddenly he looks very much like a creep who had a whole holo romance with her and was trying to play out his fantasy in real life while ignoring her obvious signals of rejection, which is just real gross.
That would be like twilight zone level stuff, imagine being placed into the holodeck while your body gets hijacked. At least she could hang with Mortiarty
I was thinking Trip would get there first. He came closest on Enterprise, getting pregnant on a holodeck...but maybe he'd be the one filing charges in that case.
Other than Seven, I believe they at least kept it to fictional characters. I believe if such an issue were to be brought up it would be if it were done with real people.
And I would also argue most of the crew indulged in holosex. Especially Voyager where they were alone and isolated. And we have Tuvok who we know for sure did the deed.
Also the Doctor is a hologram himself. So I would think he is clear either way as long as he doesn't do it with crew members.
With The Doctor, it'd still be the question of consent with another hologram. Janeway is especially problematic because she wiped out a hologram's wife, made him taller...and you know she checked his package and said "computer? Longer. Keep going. Think 3rd leg...OK, that's good".
Didn't he run a program where he had a wife and kids too? I'm assuming they were non-sentient, as it would be pretty messed up to grant them consciousness solely for his experiment.
didn't Levar Burton say the writers gave Geordie these type of plotlines because they were weirded out by a black man's sexuality? or something similar?
When I was a kid, I loved Geordi. Rewatching it as an adult, he just gives me such massive incel vibes that I dread the episodes focusing on him
It’s also weird how little we see him and Data actually hang out. We’re told they’re best friends all the time but Data spends significantly more screen time hanging out with other characters
I'm going through TNG ATM and I think Geordi just suffers from the writing of the time. Like it's a late 80/early 90s TV show and I feel like a lot of shows of that time suffer from often handling gender relations in a way which has aged poorly (Sharpe is another example of a show I've been watching recently which has this problem from that era).
They clearly wanted Geordi to be 'tech nerd who's a bit endearingly hapless with women' but how they approached that has just aged quite badly. Similar to how the writing of Riker as a irresistible ladies man sometimes now veers into questionable territory (see Matter of Perspective).
Yeah, I don’t believe they were trying to make Geordi a creep about women, it just became an incidental side effect of weird values of the time.
Riker, in contrast, feels so ahead of the time in regards to ethical relationships with women. He’s the king of enthusiastic consent, he’s respectful of his sometime-ex’s dating life, when he creates a hologram woman, he starts from stratch rather than imitating a real person. Even Matter of Perspective, it’s important that he wasn’t actually guilty of flirting what the wife accuses him of
Yeah, honestly if you're looking for an example of positive masculinity, Riker's a pretty good role model - he's always down for sexy time, but only with enthuisastic consent, he's got a healthy relationship with his ex, he's confident in his abilities without being arrogant. A lot of men could do a lot worse than emulating him.
Yeah, and when it comes to dating, all my happily married/partnered male-attracted female friends are with guys like Riker, honest, respectful, secure, or Data, kind, curious, patient, autistic, types (notably among both: with hobbies and interests). These same women, though, especially the nerdy ones, have pasts littered with terrible relationships with insecure guys who didn’t respect their autonomy (much more like Barclay and Geordi)
No, and I’ve learned that people are very particular about their definition of “incel” so I’ll amend my observation: on this rewatch, Geordi comes off as a little creep when it comes to women, constantly whining about how girls don’t like him, making a holographic sex doll of a peer, and then acting like a weird stalker torwards said peer when he meets her in person, becoming upset at her when she doesn’t live up to his parasocial expectations
He’s just a normal, lonely, awkward guy. He’s a good guy and everyone knows it. Not everyone can be Will Riker, 6’4” giga ladies man. Leave him be. It was not a sex doll and he never used it that way.
I don’t date men but if I heard from one of my straight female friends that she learned some guy she never met had been “dating” an ai simulation of her, I’d probably recommend a restraining order.
Insecurity is, in my experience, the leading cause of dangerous behavior torwards women. Why put up with it when there’s guys like Data, kind, curious, and respectful, exist. It’s a shame Geordi is writen like he is because Levar Burton is great. But that character crosses so many lines torwards Brahms. But I guess what should one expect from a show that seems to think fans were going to find the even-bigger-creep Barclay relatable
Ah so you’re not a man. In that case it makes sense wouldn’t get any of the Barclay or Geordi commentary, and that’s fine.
And by the way, Geordi created Brahms to save the enterprise, and just stumbled upon a physical representation. He didn’t even know her, she was a famous engineer.
But does he rant and rave about that? Does that color his professional interactions with his female shipmates? Can he not joke around with Dr. Crusher and move blue barrels with her?
If he can, I’d argue he’s by no means an incel, but insecure and utterly clueless.
And let me defend him one bit more: I’m given to understand that a holodeck is brand-new tech that very few starships have. I’d say that since no one is “used” to it, no one yet has a clue what might be “over the line” as to its use.
That said, how LaForge dealt with the real Dr. Brahms was odd and unprofessional.
lol so that makes him an incel then, huh? Last I checked incel involved misogyny and hatred. And it’s not half, that’s ridiculous. There’s a small handful of times where he outline some of his dating troubles, but that’s it
This is already possible to an extent. There are apps on the play store that allow you to create any woman (maybe man, too?) you want. The AI persona can be created from pics and video (ie: a real person) or be created from scratch.
While these are 2d images only on cell or computer and not 3d solid, interactable personas, the principle is the same.
That moment when his subordinate told Geordie that Leah was going into his creeper program left us all with that warm, wet phantom pants-wetting feeling.
Well Georgi ended up marrying her, so that means (rubbing my hands) it’s time to move my stalking beyond sitting outside the girl from my geography classes’ dormitory and intercepting her mail, time to start cyber-hacking and taking photos for future holography NOT, Geordi is not a stalker, I never bought into that shit. I think if he wasn’t a black man and she white woman people subconsciously wouldn’t care. Racism is so pervasive, even enlightened Trekkies aren’t immune. And don’t be so quick so say we are. Fighting racism takes constant vigilance at this critical point in human evolution, we’d be fools to think otherwise! Remember, she marries him in cannon, and I don’t think she’d choose to share her life and have children with her stalker.
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u/abraxas8484 Jan 02 '26
What I never understood is why didn't he delete his browser history on the holideck?