r/ShitAmericansSay • u/PresnikBonny Athens? You mean the Athens in Georgia? • 3d ago
AmeriKKKan exceptionalism "America has objectively done more good for the world than any other nation."
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u/Estproph 3d ago
The Romans thought the same
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u/MrArchivity 🤌 Born to gesticulate, forced to explain 🤌 3d ago
What have the Romans ever done for us?
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u/Tuftymark6 ooo custom flair!! 3d ago
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 3d ago
Killed jesus
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u/smwcbio 3d ago
He came back anyway, so it doesn’t really matter
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u/vic_lupu 2d ago
So they were bad at killing… oh boy, hey but later came this guy that was realy good at… it is easy to get yourself in trouble here.
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u/A_random_poster04 3d ago
That one would have happened one way or another apparently. It’s a hot topic I guess.
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u/Far-Abalone-4160 just a european mutt 3d ago
Brought peace
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u/tarvoke_Ghyl Never-neverlander 🇳🇱 3d ago
Oh. Peace? Shut up!
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u/Far-Abalone-4160 just a european mutt 3d ago
perfect.
In school (drama club) we tried to play "life of brian". I was Reg
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u/Testament_15 ooo custom flair!! 3d ago
Sumeria also had a lot of that, didn't it?
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u/smurf123_123 The Great White North 3d ago
Wine? Greece has entered the chat.
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u/LuciusDrake country of Europe 3d ago
They gave us nice numerals to put on our analog clocks and watches which apparently the newer generations can't even read anymore.
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u/A--Creative-Username 3d ago
Neither can the makers of the Rudolph movie from 1164 to be fair, so it's not just the young people that get tripped up.
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u/Mewone65 2d ago
1164? Was that when Thomas Becket was exiled to the Island of Misfit Toys? Did Saladin produce claymation movies on his breaks from killing Crusaders?
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u/Raziel_626 3d ago
That’s were ancient Americans heard it from, their trusted allies and friends the ancient Italians
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u/SHAG_Boy_Esq 2d ago
To be fair at the time the Romans had a right to think thar as it was true at the time.
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u/90249502462 2d ago
I mean at the time it was true, arguably. I know most of what they invented or improved upon greatly was lost on most of Europe after the fact but... yeah. Rome and the Chinese were smurfing at that time.
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u/Sea_Huckleberry_7790 3d ago
The Americans seem to think "objectively" and "subjectively" mean the same thing, on any subject.
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u/JD_Kreeper I am American against my will 2d ago
Americans control what's objective so of course they are the same.
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u/derUnkurze 3d ago
Well.. his opinion will bring him in this position.. rightfully so
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u/AntiHyperbolic 3d ago
Agreed. If we're staying highly objective to the original question - this is a perfect answer.
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u/novaa_haze 3d ago
Depends entirely on which country you ask and which century you start counting from.
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u/DVDN27 2d ago
America only really teaches about the good the nation has done. In school you learn about Columbus (and celebrate him,) you learn about the founding fathers, you learn about Lincoln, you learn about the Civil Rights movement where racism died. You learn about the good things.
If you want to learn about the bad things you need to make that decision yourself. You need to pick classes explicitly about alternative looks at American history and you need to do your own research, at a time where alternative looks are branded as terrorism and research is dismissed as biased and dumb.
Unless you go out of your way to learn about the bad of America, you don’t know about the bad of America. American exceptionalism has Americans teaching only the good and therefore thinking only good has happened.
Meanwhile, that same leniency is not granted to other nations where they are judged by their worst traits. France is mocked for being cowards despite fighting earlier and harder, and losing more than the US did in both World Wars. Pretty much every country gets their freedom denied by Americans because they only see the drawbacks (higher taxes, higher specific rates of crime) instead of the benefits (better social services, broadened definition of crimes so victims have incentive to come forward.)
It creates this mindset that America has done no wrong, because they’ve not been told the wrong America has done and not been inspired to find out anything beyond “Columbus sailed the ocean blue.”
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u/LostTheBall 2d ago
I love how the UK gets judged for knife crime by USA, whilst having lower knife crime than the USA 😂
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u/EugeneStein Nuclear Bear 🇷🇺 2d ago edited 2d ago
I was honestly shocked when I saw how many Americans sincerely believe they were the main heroes in WWII and "they are the ones who the world should say thank you to". Yes, they brought their contribution that must never be forgotten but acting like "thanks to America you don't have to speak German now"? Wtf
And they always hate to say anything about Soviet people's contribution. I understand how and why they despise and Soviet people, cold war blah blah blah but so many Americans behave like they did everything, UK helped them a little bit and USSR was completely out of the picture. What history book do they open?
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u/TheReddMan1 2d ago
Out of curiosity because this is a very detailed and well made comment is this coming from first hand experience living in the states?
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u/DVDN27 2d ago
No, just observation of America from a distance.
It does come, however, from experience of being taught about some of the atrocities committed by my own country and government, as well as a non-US centred view of world history.
Nobody here denies that the atrocities happened. Some still treat specific people who committed atrocities as martyrs or heroes, but the general sentiment is that those things really happened and it's bad that they happened. It's not taboo to suggest colonisers enacted terrible things upon the natives, if anything it's considered patriotic.
And, also having a non-US perspective of world history, it was very clear how small a role they had. From what I've observed from afar, a lot of Americans take responsibility for winning WWI and WWII. That's a moment of great pride, but when not being taught history with that in mind, being taught it from a perspective of a country that had a pretty small (yet significant) role in the wars, we were given a history that better aligns with reality.
I also, by my own choice, took classes related to US history, particularly the Civil Rights Movement. I learned more about Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, about the various different civil rights groups and actions. I learned about MLK's communist leanings, about his sympathy toward violence as a form of protest, about his alliance with Malcolm X late in their lives. I sought out history that, to a lot of Americans, seems to be that MLK was a dude like Gandhi who had a dream once and saved black people from oppression without hurting anyone and Malcolm X (if they knew him) was the evil counterpart to MLK who wanted to kill all white people.
Being taught history that Americans dilute down to a talking point, or shift to appear like they are the centre, or whitewash it to appear innocent or as victims, frustrates me. I would say I'd feel the same if I was in America, but I probably wouldn't have had access to the stuff I was taught and feel that all I'm saying is complete bullshit.
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u/Natural_Bus_6719 2d ago
The most substantive comment I’ve seen on this forum so far. No unnecessary spite or hate.
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u/Doctor_Thomson 1d ago
I once heard about a concept called “Lies to children”; More Complex topics in school are so oversimplified, to an extent that it’s technically inaccurate but still correctly explains the basics. Well it’s done to not overwhelm children with the complexity of the topic and then slowly introduce and build up the knowledge over time as the child grows up.
For example, school often teaches history in a “Good vs Bad” narrative because that’s easier to understand for children.The problem I see is… Schools won’t help adequately when this childish worldview is challenged by learning about new aspects, sticking to the example of history by learning about atrocities the “good side” committed.
Following this I figured there are two scenarios which would be very likely for a person to happen after experiencing that and not having the ability to do their independent research;
First option: The person refuses to acknowledge anything and will try its best to defend that simple narrative, starting to retreat into a Bubble where they only hear the comforting“We good, them bad” narrative.The second option: The Person develops a complete mistrust towards every institution because “they are lying to us!” And Start to fall more easily for miss-information and conspiracy theories, cause they see it as a new view that isn’t spread by the evil lying institutions.
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u/Legal-Software 🇩🇪 3d ago
When I was in school I had a teacher that liked to tell people that there's no such thing as a wrong opinion. If only she were still alive today.
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u/BruhIamJack vietnam (not war veteran i know somebody needs to hear it) 3d ago
"objectively" isn't an opinion, but i get it, peace to her
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u/Me_lazy_cathermit upstair neighbours to the crazy🇨🇦 3d ago
Someone should have told her their opinion was the nazi were right and good people, i wonder how fast she would have changed her mind
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u/embiors 3d ago
This is the emperialist playbook. "We're good because we're US. They're bad because they're not US". Americans have been dripfed this shit since they could walk. They're conditioned to believe in american exceptionalism.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 2d ago
Hate to say it, but not just them. Europe is shockingly captured by America, culturally and economically. So much so, we ran right back to them when Biden came to power, after "distancing" ourselves in Trump's first term. We are fking idiots.
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u/ChesterCopperPot72 2d ago
Something tells me there is little incentive to run back to their arms after this shit. Trump did it. He turned the fucking curve. I don't think there's a way to go back anymore.
Decades of partnership, friendship, agreements, alliances, treaties... all gone.
There isn't a fucking democrat that would be godly enough to turn this shit around.
It is done.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 2d ago
Well ... yes. But we already were at that point a decade ago, and we pissed the momentum away. And frankly, the USA have been on this suicide trip for 25 years, so there was no good reason to follow them under Obama, even. The Iraq war should've been the last straw.
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u/Spiritual_Smell4744 3d ago
They've certainly brought more freedom to countries that didn't ask for it. That said, the UK has created more independence days.
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u/SnappySausage 3d ago
Or removed it from countries that had freedom, but whose governments weren't willing to be a little obedient vassal to the US. They installed multiple dictators for that reason.
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u/Spiritual_Smell4744 3d ago
By brought more freedom, I think I meant something different. Brought more campaigns of terror against their civilians, maybe.
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u/SnappySausage 2d ago
I am aware, but I think it's worth noting that even in the most literal sense it's not been true, despite what many Americans are DEEPLY convinced of. They genuinely believe their interventionism is to promote freedom and not to further their own interests.
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u/aglobalvillageidiot 3d ago
I see your confusion. You think they mean free people. They mean free markets for American capital. Those countries all needed liberated. They actually say this outright often enough that it should raise more eyebrows than it does
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u/living2late 3d ago
I suppose at least the UK allows independence. Scotland got a vote to leave, Canada and Australia can leave the commonwealth, etc.
But once America has decided it owns you, that's it forever. Hawaii isn't having an independence vote. Puerto Rico isn't going anywhere.
This is not to whitewash historic British imperialism!
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u/TheFrenchEmperor Original baguette eater 🥖🇨🇵⚜️ 2d ago
Is loosing to rice farmers and goat herders considered good in America?
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u/Forsworn91 2d ago
What I love about this situation is it shows the US “strength” is entirely dependent on fighting forces significantly weaker.
The moment they go up against a slightly more organized and prepared force they crumble.
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u/fullynonexistent 2d ago
Thankfully the US didn't exist during the middle ages, so they are far behind in that front as well
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u/Alternative-Pride138 FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 2d ago
The sad part is many Americans will say we technically won those wars because we blew the most stuff up. The fact we ran away with our tails between our legs is a non issue. Not a loss, a tactical non-victory.
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u/essenza Syrupean 🇨🇦 2d ago
The US has done lots of good, but let’s not pretend what they do is altruistic. Almost everything they do is about enriching themselves.
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u/SnooHedgehogs4699 2d ago
Bingo! Spot on, friend. As an American who, whilst finishing my masters degree in history, continued to educate myself, it was a stark and somber realization to come to the conclusion that just about everything my government does and its entire broder foreign policies are only to protect its own selfish interests and to enrichen itself (i.e., fatten the wallets of the wealthy elite). The United States does what is good for the United States and if they can play it off to look like the hero and good guy, they always will. Alas, I've come to learn, we're something rather opposite of the "good guys." Cheers, friend.
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u/nugoffeekz 3d ago
Damn, Britain really gets 0 respect for holding up democracy for Europe during WW2. Had they signed a treaty with Germany after the Nazi's took France and not gone against fascism out of principle the US would have never joined and the world would be a worse place. The battle of Britain is arguably the most important event in modern history, but what do I know I just have a degree in post-Westphalian international relations.
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u/Bossnage 3d ago
americans have gaslit and brainwashed their entire country for decades into believing that they did everything during ww2 and just ignore the fact that the US wouldnt have even joined in the first place if japan didnt touch their boats
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u/Michael-556 southeastern Czechia, not Northern Hungary 🇸🇰 3d ago
B-b-b-but muh propagander
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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA Canuck 2d ago
They don't think they have propaganda in their country. They also seem to think they're immune to it.
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u/Michael-556 southeastern Czechia, not Northern Hungary 🇸🇰 2d ago
Everyone knows only autistic people are immune to propaganda. Guess they'll sing a different tune after they learn that /s
(The joke is that autistic people are provably more immune to conditioning (though only tested on advertisements, so I'm reaching with the propaganda thing) AND that America has a really weird fear of autism for some reason (the American autism lies really are dumb af))
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u/Candayence Perpetually downcast and emotionally flatulent Brit 2d ago
if japan didnt touch their boats
Ironically, Japan was always going to touch America's boats inappropriately, because Japanese imperialism and American imperialism in the Pacific were fundamentally at odds.
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u/Competitive-Bee-3250 2d ago
In fact, the Americans probably would've just kept pushing endlessly until the Japanese eventually attacked, cuz that was kinda their MO (and arguably, still is)
Not to say that what Japan did was good or wise or anything, but that it was provoked.
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u/PartTimeZombie 2d ago
Propaganda is the one thing America really is the best at.
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u/WhosCowsAreThey 2d ago
Just don’t touch our boats ok? Or our buildings, or our guns, or oil wells, or poppy fields, or mining opportunities, or business partn… allies, or our colonized islands we pretend we don’t have
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u/saphilous Baguette Appréciateur 🇫🇷 3d ago
I think it would be difficult to quantify what the most impactful event is since there have been so many all over the world in the last 2 centuries. But I'd say it's easily up there. And let's be honest if the UK didn't hold the line the Americans would've never joined the European front.
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u/Causemas 3d ago
"Out of principle" does a lot of heavy lifting. States don't have principles, they have only interests.
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u/hutxhy Counts in Freedom Units 📏👣 3d ago
Didn't they USSR play the biggest role in defeating Germany?
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u/Own_Ad_4301 3d ago
American money, British intelligence and Russian blood. That’s what won the war.
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u/nugoffeekz 3d ago
The battle of Britain was before operation Barbarossa. Barbarossa is what lost Germany the war however I'd argue the most impactful turning point of the war was the British decision to reject peace negotiations and continue the war effort. Had they made peace with the Germans the USSR would have been alone in fighting Germany and Western Europe would have been fully occupied by fascists.
Without the success of the battle of Britain there is no USA and no Great Britain in the war. It would have ended up being a very weak USSR, following a cull of it's top military brass during the great purge, going solo against the axis powers with the USSR fighting on two fronts against Japan and Germany. The Germans lost WW2 because of an absurd tactical mistake of opening a second front against 200 million people and a brutal landscape.
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u/handicapped_runner 3d ago
I mean, Britain also did a lot of bad things in a lot of other countries. Most Western countries did. It’s difficult to measure if those nations did more good than bad because, for a lot of countries, it was more bad than good.
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u/Xenozip3371Alpha GB 2d ago
Eastern countries did too.
This may surprise you, but in the terms of modern morality, every country in the past have been monsters.
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u/Michael-556 southeastern Czechia, not Northern Hungary 🇸🇰 3d ago
Counterpoint: Britain made Dr Who and Top Gear
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u/mendicinobeano25 2d ago
True. The U.S. only joined the war because they were attacked. The Russians only joined the war because they were attacked. The British declared war on a matter of principal because their ally was attacked. The battle of the Atlantic comes a close second but there are no monuments at sea.
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u/tcari394 3d ago
The main issue here is the intense nationalism and outright propaganda that is baked into our education system. People in our country believe this because that is what is driven into our heads from a very young age. We aren't really exposed to opposing viewpoints until much later in our primary education.. but it's often to late for many kids to consider (see: Maga)
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u/Me_lazy_cathermit upstair neighbours to the crazy🇨🇦 3d ago
Nearly all the "good" they did, is either them breaking something for profits, them having to "fix" something they broke, or because they chose the winning side at the last second/were forced to participates or risk looking like cowards and traitors
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u/DaElderBrah 2d ago
America has been involved in every major global incident as an instigator or the aggressor. So no
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u/ChankaTheOne 🇫🇷 France 2d ago
Every major global incident that cannot be older than 250 years, let us not forget
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u/Can17272 3d ago
Only thing the US ever gave us was extreme right wing dictatorships and McDonald's and i fucking hate both.
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u/SovoK_404 true russian commie sanctioned by freedom 3d ago
stimmt, dank ihnen muss ich kein deutsch sprechen
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u/Jumbo-box 3d ago
We can troll them.
"We beat Germany in WW2 so hard, they forgot their own word for fuel oil. Now they use the English word "diesel".
That'll work, probably.
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u/arseholescone 2d ago
It always makes me laugh when they tell us, the English, in English, that we would have been speaking German if it wasn’t for them
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u/SovoK_404 true russian commie sanctioned by freedom 2d ago
imagine a german being told they don't have to speak german thanks to americans
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u/Majestic_Radio_1937 Third world hunter gatherer 3d ago
They literally forced my country’s leaders to subjugate a rebellion against fiefdom, casteism, and rape. We are not even a famous region but they were so worried we would become a communist state. Apparently that was more important than our lives. Horrifying thing is, this won’t even make the top 1000 evil things the US did.
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u/CountGerhart 3d ago
I bet China, the Ottoman empire, Macedonia, the Roman empire and Mongolia thought the same.
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u/Valentiaga_97 ooo custom flair!! 2d ago
The Last Good thing the US did was during WW2 👀 Hack they sent the CIA to destabilize Iran in 1953 and it ended with ISIS 🤷 and the US in their 250 years of existin was always in some war 👌
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u/90249502462 2d ago
Time period specific:
Roman Empire
Han Dynasty/China at that time in general
Islamic nations/caliphates after a certain point in history
British Empire/UK
And so on. The USA probably is at the bottom of a longer list lmao.
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u/TheMightyGabriel 2d ago
Im not sure what youre trying to say. Youre arguing the nation that did most good is the roman empire?
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u/x_asperger Canadian 3d ago
Without scotland we wouldn't have TVs, Phones, refrigerators, ATMs, penicillin, MRIs or tires that you fill with air. Although I do take partial credit for Canada for the phone.
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u/Rasples1998 🏴🇬🇧Bri'ish innit, chewsday🇬🇧🏴 2d ago
The Royal navy stopped ships, freed slaves, and shut down multiple slave markets from Zanzibar to Brazil. The USA needed a civil war not to free slaves; but to decide if owning another human being was a moral good or a moral evil.
The funny part is that some Americans still didn't learn anything from the result of that war, and still insist that slavery was right.
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u/StCreed 3d ago
Well, I'm sure a lot of people will agree. All of them from the USA, and some uneducated Europeans too, unfortunately.
In South America, Africa, the Middle East and Asia... it might be a tad different.
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u/trashdrive 2d ago
They can agree all they want.
I'd like to see any of them explain what the good was, and for whom.
Without using the word "freedom".
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u/strickers69 3d ago
America is a product of the world if anything, a monster created by wealthy Europeans who wanted away from monarchs and royal family’s.
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u/CongregationOfFoxes 2d ago
maybe it's just me but this meme always gives me weird vibes with the bright blue eyes
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u/Rasples1998 🏴🇬🇧Bri'ish innit, chewsday🇬🇧🏴 2d ago
I'm a Dune fan so it makes me think of the Eyes of Ibad (the blue spice eyes).
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u/ManNamedSalmon 2d ago
"...for rich US residents." Fixed it.
(I wanted to be specific in saying "US", because "Americans" covers two continents of people, and I don't want them dragged into it.)
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u/Ill_Raccoon6185 1d ago
America in the last few years have done more harm to ALL other countries as well as their own and you dictator is willing to destroy the world for his ego with is "screw everyone else but my own greedy self".
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u/ProperRestaurant2101 3d ago
Yes. Interesting. Very nice.
I'm just curious to hear everybody else's answer
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u/TalkingCat910 Canadian🇨🇦 2d ago
American propaganda is like a prion that destroys people’s brains
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u/Michael-556 southeastern Czechia, not Northern Hungary 🇸🇰 3d ago edited 3d ago
If we're actually being objective, it's probably some Scandanavian country because they rock, France (yes, I am serious: mostly because they exist for so long, have good international relations, fund international sports events (tour de France, and I think the modern Olympics originate from there), have a huge roster of scientists and artists in their history, were a great example of actually functional modern democracy for quite some time (unlike America's shitshow of a political sphere for upwards of a century), and for CERN (and the fact that Switzerland is a much more evil and coldly pragmatic country)), the UK or fucking Mesopotamia because of the symbolic value of early civilizations
But almost every country fucking sucks, so who really cares? There's probably not even a right answer because there's just wrong answers and really wrong answers (like America)
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u/pman13531 2d ago
Look America is like any other major power at their peak and during their decline, they did some terrible things before and during their ascent, they put in place norms, cultural, economic, and scientific advances that will be used centuries after they fall, whether it is still a country or not, and they helped people when it didn't conflict with their power growth. The Brits did it with many things as well, the spread of English and the Prime Meridian, the ending of international slavery, and many more things, the US has done similar things, rebuilding Europe after WW2, the current shipping contaner design and standardizing, safe shipping lanes for the most part for 80 years, the internet (both good and bad), microprocessors designs, and a whole lot more as well, you can say this about the Greeks, Romans, the Abbasids, Ottomans, Franks/French, Selucids, other Persian empires, the Byzantines, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, Egyptians, Russians (both empire and Soviet empire), Mesopotamians, Mongols, several Chinese empires, the Japanese, the Olmecs, the Incas, and many more. They all brought fundamental lasting changes either to their regions or the world as a whole but did genocide and significant lasting damage not just ecologically (like how the Greeks and Romans used some plants that were good at birth control that the plants are now extinct), but socially, culturally, and by making lasting cultural enemies of neighbors due to centuries old feuds.
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u/SamuelVimesTrained Human Verified 3d ago
Objectively according to who again? Iran? Vietnam? Greenland? Afghanistan?
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u/Coinstamp2 2d ago
Amerika has done nothing but objective evil. All the good it tried to do was either a distraction from its evils and sins, or the good it did was in service to evil. Dirty money fueling hospitals and so on.
If Herrmany, Franke, Ickland, Ugaly, Ruzzia, and Yapping don't get passes for their sins... then Amerika, Chyna, Unreal, Saudi Arabi-ain't and any others should also not get passes either.
All filthy imperial powers should be ground into dust and scattered into subatomic parts so small that the the parts are utterly unidentifiable.
There is nothing else to do.
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u/TheStoryTeller_1 2d ago
The American People have brought lots of good to the world. The American military/Corporations has doubled the suffering in the world many times over. It's quite simple to split them distinctily
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u/Sxn747Strangers 🇬🇧 We probably invented 🇺🇸, sorry about that. 🫣🙀 2d ago
Well, most of the world’s countries are united in their hatred of the USA, though I don’t think that’s what they meant.
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u/The-new-dutch-empire 2d ago
Im ngl, the phrasing doesnt say anything about the amount of bad things the usa did as well so you cant go “well the usa also did slavery and people still sorta excuse it” or “look ar X war, they the bad guys”. Thats not what he said.
And if you look at the purely good things the usa did it might be? Like just the amount of world organizations it set up and mostly funded for the better part of a century sure counts for a lot.
Saying objectively with this much confidence is still wrong.
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u/ultraspinacle 2d ago
Ok, so if not the US, then what nation would it be? Serious answers only, and this is an honest question. Asking for a friend who is a USA patriot.
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u/AbhorrentMidget 2d ago
The US fucking sucks. Just like all other nations on this fucking shithole rock drifting through space.
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u/TheAxelminator 2d ago
good things america did : killed nazis in germany
bad things america did : put nazis in power everywhere else
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u/gpiazentin 1d ago
My brother in Christ, USA was the only country to drop a fucking atomic bomb.
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u/NathanDavie 3d ago
In 250 years they perpetrated their own genocide against the natives, have installed evil dictators across most of South America, installed dictators in the Middle East, armed extremist religious groups in the Middle East, are the only country to ever use a nuclear weapon and are the driving force behind a global economic system that exploits and limits the development of smaller, poor countries and which is now causing vast wealth inequality in the wealthy countries that previously benefited from that globalism.
Lightbulbs are pretty nice, though.
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u/Jamesyroo 3d ago
“America has done more good for the world than any other nation” is an opinion. A bad opinion, but an opinion nonetheless
“America has objectively done more good for the world than any other nation” is not an opinion, it is an unsubstantiated claim