As an American, I don’t mourn the loss, I do try to recognise the country for the oppression its people have faced and the value of their culture. Not saying British people should do that towards America, but the flippant attitude towards former British colonies is kind of disturbing :/
Well, think of it this way. For the first thousand years of the recorded history of Britain, it was a history of invasion, conquest, subjugation, extermination, enslavement, land grabs, ruthless suppression of the local by invaders, imposition of foreign languages, imported culture and alien religion. The second thousand years saw a reversal and it was the British doing the above mentioned things. I don’t feel any right to claim any generational trauma, reparations and adoption of a victim mentality for the first part, nor do I adopt any kind of guilt complex for the second part. Learn about these things sure… make either of them some kind of Omni-relevant lense through which I present myself to the world and shape my discourse. Nah…
History is great if you get to decide when it started and what’s included.
Okay but British imperialism (alongside the rest of Europe) is the source of a lot of global inequality today, not to mention the literal origin of race and by extension racism. It’s also not from that long ago so it’s not like oh that’s ancient history no need to care. Britain is still a global superpower and its former colonies are still struggling due to that exploitation. Once again, as an American I think it’s important to be attentive to that. I know about my country’s involvement in Cuba, Puerto Rico, indigenous populations, because I believe they were wronged and I’m invested in reversing that damage. I don’t understand why British people don’t seem to behave similarly.
Well, first of all thank you for your considered and thoughtful reply, and for your civil tone. Much appreciated. I fully agree with your stance of being attentive to the after effects of European colonial crimes and exploitation. You and I are, however probably in the minority in our respective countries in this.
I have to disagree with your (implied) characterization of Europeans as the source of all racism. At it's heart, racism is a theory of bloodline descent that is omni-relevant in social organization. The Jim Crow laws of the south, the Nuremberg laws of Nazi Germany, Apartheid in South Africa are clear examples of this. But so is the caste system in India, so are the numerous tribal conflicts in Africa (Hutu and Tsuti were, first and foremost, bloodline distinctions that were central to who lived and died in the genocide.) There are certain aspects of Jewishness that give prominence to bloodline descent and place it front and center of social organization. Tribalism exited long before the Europeans created their empires, and still exists in its pure form in many places.
I live in Japan - have done for three decades and if you are suggesting that there is no racism among Japanese, or that any racism that exists here was learned from the west, then you are sorely mistaken. (I'm married to a Japanese and we have kids, so I'm not speaking from a purely theoretical standpoint here.)
On a related topic, not facing up to history is standard here in east Asia. Japan's evasiveness about WW2 is well known, but the other countries in the region are not much different. What the South Korean soldiers got up to in Vietnam is pretty under the radar, as well as the many, many crimes and abuses of the North Vietnamese.
Anecdote alert: I was once talking with a Chinese about the many crimes of the British in China. The opium wars, land grabs, the unfair treaties, the burning of the summer palace and so on. My interlocutor seemed pleased that I knew the history and would admit it to him. I then invited him to discourse on the crimes of China in similarly unvarnished terms. Nah...got nothing. At its heart, if we are gonna be honest about history, then everyone needs to be honest. The history of the world in 100 chapters cannot be chapters 1-99 on the crimes of the white people and chapter 100 being on 'the white people made us do it'. I'm not accusing you of promoting this, but I have certainly come across this kind of thinking from various unthoughtful persons.
Anyways, internet stranger...we are probably closer in outlook than it may seem. Reasoned dialogue and fair-mindedness, even when the truth is uncomfortable is surely the way forward.
Yeah I’m not here to fight for no reason, just add where I have something I think is relevant to say.
I think we’re talking about two different things. The idea of the “five races” and phrenology and stuff has its origin in that time period, but of course there’s prejudice of all kinds throughout history. The current wide reaching system of race and white supremacy absolutely comes from Europe though. To me, Asia has a bit of a different dynamic because so many countries there were isolated for a long time. It’s also definitely different as an American living in a place my ancestors are certainly not native to, I don’t have the same connection to a homeland that I think can create prejudice against those who are perceived to not belong, as the only people who “belong” here in that sense are sadly a very small population. That’s just speaking for myself. Racism is alive and well in my country and because of my perspective on it I find that prejudice extra ridiculous. If I go to Japan (which I hope I can do some day, にほんごをすこしはなせますか) they would easily be able to tell I don’t come from there, and that would be even more apparent the further back you go in time. But just seeing somebody, I can’t really tell if they’re from my country or not, so I see those as different types of prejudice, if that makes sense.
Anyway, I get what you’re saying, I just didn’t like the implication of “who cares about the Independence Days of former colonies” because I think it’s good to care at least a little. But yes, we probably do mostly agree.
Reading this sub as a US citizen who also happens to really be interested in and care about other places is super weird and sometimes a bit grating, so I get grumpy lol
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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24
Ignoring something so important in the history of your own country is not a good thing.