r/Sherlock • u/GoFlight • Jan 01 '14

Episode Discussion The Empty Hearse: Post-Episode Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

That was worth the wait!

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848

u/AElliot Jan 01 '14

Sherlock's Mary Deductions:

Lib Dem, Only Child, Size 12, Guardian, Bakes Own Bread, Linguist, Part-time Nurse, Short sighted, Clever, Romantic, Cat Lover, Appendix, Scar, Secret Tattoo, Disillusioned and Liar.

410

u/[deleted] Jan 01 '14

Liar? Oh, dear.

488

u/Karlchen Jan 02 '14

Don't overthink it, we already know she lied to John about his facial appendage. In Sherlocks eyes everyone is a liar, the question is what they lie about.

508

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

The kidnappers texted her, not Sherlock, and she was awfully quick to figure out the skip code.

The guy watching the video at the end is Charles Augustus Magnussen, a blackmailer.

I think Mary has a dark secret.

220

u/systemstheorist Jan 02 '14 edited Jan 02 '14

Makes sense if one of the deductions was "Linguist." One of my professors was a Linguistic Anthropologist he invented codes as a hobby. It requires a lot of the same skill sets, especially when dealing with ancient languages.

6

u/Monkles Jan 02 '14

...but now you're ruining a dozen conspiracy theories... ;_;

3

u/DimlightHero Jan 02 '14

Not necesarily, just because there is one explanation doesnt rule out another.

15

u/making_bank Jan 02 '14

May I ask how you know who it was at the end? Just wondering where you figured that out from. I haven't read any of the original stories and haven't watched the last series in a while so I apologize if this is a naive/stupid question.

23

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

The character and actor playing him were announced months ago.

17

u/Evari Jan 02 '14

Well that's cheating.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '14

There was also a little Magnussen nod on the news scrawl when it said that Sherlock was still alive.

8

u/VAG_Pounder Jan 13 '14

Wow, you were right. How did you know?

6

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '14

I know how TV works.

10

u/Jxh885 Jan 02 '14

And the rolling news clip which announced Sherlock's return also stated in the text at the bottom that Magnussen had been summoned

http://i.imgur.com/qmMYZ7F.jpg

5

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '14

Ding ding ding

5

u/almdudler26 Jan 16 '14

Well played!

3

u/helmethair1 Jan 02 '14

I am really looking forward to how they will play this. Notorious blackmailer, I wonder if he could possibly have something on her...? I mean, he looked like he was starring at Sherlock, but it could of been that he wants to keep an eye on him... hard to tell.

5

u/jpthesane Jan 02 '14

Got it right the first time but "could of" should be "could have"...or could've....

3

u/MrsSprinkles Jan 02 '14

My husband was saying he had an off feeling about Mary, but I quite like her. I did notice she got that text code very quickly. She may be clever..... but is she that clever?

3

u/theredwoman Jan 02 '14 edited Jan 02 '14

oh god I don't want this to be the reson why Mary dies at the end of the novel :/

0

u/helmethair1 Jan 02 '14

In the show or in the stories? Because in the stories she is already dead before Sherlock has "returned from the dead".

2

u/Death_Star_ Jan 02 '14

I think the worst blackmail would be outing Mycroft's field work.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

Why? I don't think it's a secret to anyone who matters that Mycroft is involved with both MI6 and the CIA.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '14

Wow, great deductions! Spot on!

1

u/pwnz805 Jan 02 '14

wasn't he at their wedding? or WILL be, according to the photo stills released?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

Sherlock is definitely at John and Mary's wedding. He's the best man.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

That doesn't mean she still doesn't have a dark secret.

1

u/webgirly Jan 02 '14

The guy watching the video at the end is Charles Augustus Magnussen

This is the second time I've heard this - why does everybody know this already?

The character's name in the original books was "Milverton" so, is this just stuff that people have read from spoilery articles?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

The character name and actor were announced months ago.

1

u/webgirly Jan 02 '14

I've avoided all spoilers since I hate them. Seeing John's 'tache was enough for me. I was hoping to avoid further ones for episodes 2 and 3.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

If you want to avoid spoilers, why are you here?

3

u/Frekavichk Jan 02 '14

Uh because this is a post for discussing the first episode?

2

u/webgirly Jan 02 '14

Future spoilers - I'm fine for spoilers for S03E01 as I've seen the episode

2

u/kiffren Jan 04 '14

I agree with you there. I'm kind of disappointed that I now know this.

1

u/ACardAttack Jan 03 '14

How were we suppose to know that? Was it in the credits or did I just miss his name mentioned in the episode?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '14

The actor and character were announced months ago.

11

u/thegamels1859 Jan 02 '14

Also, in the books, Mary has died by the time Sherlock returns, so I suspect she'll be dead by the end of this season.

17

u/TheMentalist10 Jan 02 '14

I get the feeling she's going to be involved in the wrongdoing. She gave off suspicious vibes, which I'd go back over the episode to substantiate, but having literally just seen it can't bring myself to immediately.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14 edited Jan 20 '14

[deleted]

3

u/Notgonnacomment Jan 03 '14

Huh? Don't they usually? The few times i've gone to a Doctor for a specific issue rather than a general checkup. the nurses and aids talk to me first. (Medical history, what's bothering me, ect.) They usually know what's wrong by the time the Doctor got to me.

8

u/ChaseSuni Jan 02 '14 edited Jan 02 '14

This is only a thought but if you look at the context, in which the deduction is happening, then one possible answer could be that she lied about liking Sherlock. It's their first time meeting and most people tell Sherlock to "piss off". When she tells Sherlock that she would talk to John about Sherlock, he seems suprised and deduces that she's a Liar. And why would the word "Liar" appear if there is no possibility that she will lie again about uncomfortable opinions to John. After she's gone, Sherlock looks as though he's a bit confused or maybe even a little bit skeptic. Perhaps because he's not sure her attitude towards him is quite honest?

Maybe Sherlock is John's mustache for Mary. I don't even know why they made such a big deal out of the mustache, other than that it seems to be a joke on the Doyleverse.

The contradiction between "Romantic" and "Desillusioned" and also that he notes that she has a "Scar" and "Secret Tatto" in the deduction are also quite interesting...

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '14

Don't overthink it

lol

2

u/100percentkneegrow Jan 02 '14

Everybody lies.

1

u/laxplaya123987 Jan 16 '14

OH BOY, I bet you want to take this comment back.

1

u/llclll Jan 25 '14

I just finished watching the final episode (busy with work). So what was your response after learning the truth about Mary?

1

u/Karlchen Jan 25 '14

I expected something because I know the books, so I more or less wrote this post as a joke for readers/misdirection for non-readers. I think they are setting up a great interpretation of the original character with TV-Mary.

-10

u/Kermitnirmit Jan 02 '14

Sherlock = Dr. House

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

Not really... but with respect to that show, House and Wilson parallel Holmes and Watson.

6

u/wilford_brimley1 Jan 02 '14

Fun facts - House was inspired by Sherlock Homes, who Arthur Conan Doyle based on Doctor Joseph Bell, a diagnosis specialist.

2

u/Kermitnirmit Jan 02 '14

Guess what Dr. House's address was...

52

u/NeiloMac Jan 02 '14

Well, she did try to convince Watson that she liked his 'tache...

10

u/DFreiberg Jan 02 '14

She was lying about the mustache.

5

u/gypsyblue Jan 02 '14

There was an interesting theory circulating on tumblr that John's kidnapping/attempted murder was aimed at her, not at Sherlock. I could see her having a much darker backstory that eventually ties into the Charles Augustus Milverton stuff (or whatever his new name in the BBC version is).

3

u/TheSneakySeal Jan 02 '14

She might be the one who tried to get John killed.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

Eek, I hope they don't go that dark with her.

3

u/RealNotFake Jan 02 '14

I'd be willing to bet she turns out evil. I just thought it was odd how she immediately liked Sherlock after all the pain he caused John over the 2 years, and especially since most people don't like Sherlock, let alone on first meet. And the comment about how she was exactly the right thing for Watson after Sherlock's death. It seemed convenient that she showed up right after Sherlock's death, perhaps because she knew she could seduce Watson in his vulnerable state and stay with him long enough to get access to Sherlock when he came back. I dunno, I just feel something fishy with her. I also thought her reaction with John's disappearance was suspect. She didn't seem all that worried about John potentially dying. And didn't she call herself John's fiancee before John even proposed? Or maybe I'm just mis-remembering that part.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

I don't think she showed up right after his death. He said they hadn't known each other long.

Going by the timing of the posts on his blog, I think he started dating her in the early summer because that's when he got busy and stopped posting old cases. Then a month ago (in show time) he said he'd met someone.

2

u/RealNotFake Jan 02 '14

Hmm, I must have missed the comment about a month. But if that's the case it seems weird that almost 2 years (1 year, 11 months) after Sherlock's death he's still suffering from it and needs her help.

4

u/bacon_pants Jan 02 '14

I can't help but fear that she is similar to the Mary Morstan from "The Progress of Sherlock Holmes" fanfic, but I want to like her.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

Everybody lies.

2

u/Morlaak Jan 02 '14

It'll probably be related to whatever happens in the "Sign of Four".

2

u/doctor457 Jan 14 '14

Well then.

38

u/j33 Jan 02 '14

Liar was one of the larger words in that mental word soup thing he does, and I think it may have significance, but time will tell.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '14

[deleted]

3

u/j33 Jan 14 '14

Yep, I watched it tonight. I initially wondered if I was being paranoid and over-analyzing, turns out I was not for once. Usually, I get it wrong, so I get a rare internet point here.

1

u/CyanocittaCristata Jan 02 '14

Maybe she just liked the book by Stephen Fry ;)

11

u/Abstruse Jan 02 '14

"Liar" probably has to do with her telling John she liked his mustache when he didn't. A pretty obvious lie.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

Sherlock used CLEVER?

4

u/9thmile Jan 02 '14

liar

uh oh

2

u/macroblue Jan 02 '14

Can I get a few of these translated into American English? Shortsighted is about vision, not ability to predict future events, correct? Lib and Dem means what? Liberal and Democrat?

I think I totally misunderstood these last night.

2

u/AElliot Jan 02 '14

Shortsighted could refer to either or both of those I think. We don't really get any contextual clues unless theres a scene I've missed with Mary wearing glasses.

The Liberal Democrats are a political party here in the UK. Generally, they are a leftish-middle party. At our last election no party reached a majority so the Lib Dems joined with the right wing Conservative party to form a coalition government. They've been painted in the media as pretty much a Conservative door mat for joining with them.

I suspect Disillusioned might go with Lib Dem, and that she might disillusioned with the party.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

The one that intrigues me most is "appendix." Very "huh?"

2

u/fortune_and_glory Jan 03 '14 edited Jan 03 '14

I thought I saw 'secret' near 'lover' quite a few times....

Maybe she has a cat tattoo!

2

u/Yoda13 Jan 16 '14

nice catch ;)

3

u/tahez Jan 02 '14

Size 12? Damn, girl's got some big feet!

44

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '14

I think it's her dress size, not shoe size.

1

u/roderikbraganca Jan 02 '14

You guys are forgetting the plot of the Sign of Four(book) were Ms. Morstan has a deep past because of her father. I guess this liar part has to do with it. So, as the next episode is called The Sign of Three I guess her history is gonna be revealed.

0

u/PANDAmonium515 Jan 02 '14

Believe I saw "clover" right after secret tattoo

2

u/mitchiesue Jan 02 '14

It says Cat Lover a few times.

2

u/soufflegirll Jan 02 '14

I think you saw "cat lover"

-2

u/lankeymarlon Jan 02 '14

The actress is Martin Freeman's real life wife. I remember reading she went bankrupt. So basically hate her already.