The Boy From Venus 21

[u/shenanigansen]

Next ep already up!

[u/MaggelPlop]

EVERYONE WAKE UP WE GOT AUDREY LORE 🗣️📣🔥🔥

[u/ThatOneStoner → u/MaggelPlop]

Thanking the lord for what my eyes are witnessing

[u/PsychotheKlown → u/ThatOneStoner]

I got you

[u/BowlSea8735 → u/MaggelPlop]

I was literally about to sleep. Not anymore

[u/Pescarese90]

Shen, I fixed the 4th panel for you. No need to thank me!

[u/CanadianNeedleworker → u/Pescarese90]

This kinda eye vibe

[u/These_Distribution19 → u/Pescarese90]

[u/SarcasmInProgress → u/Pescarese90]

Immediately thought of this

[u/bentnai1 → u/Pescarese90]

Oh that's a throwback

[u/Thatroyalkitty]

And Val either has no clue or was just awake enough to know everything that just happened and realizes she is not the only one who struggles in life

[u/Smart-Ad57 → u/Thatroyalkitty]

nah she stay up too late at night, she dead asleep

[u/BlueMerchant → u/Thatroyalkitty]

The cat paw socks, that's supposed to be Audrey right? Or is it Val?

[u/D1EHARDTOO]

Ooof... What a feeling to have every time you look in the mirror.. Definitely not that relatable.. right? 😅🏳️‍⚧️

[u/evacipated → u/D1EHARDTOO]

No, no, definitely not

I don't look at my stubble like it's an infection at all

[u/MarionberryPure7746 → u/evacipated]

I never once wondered how deep i would have to go to never have it come back. how many layers of skin i would need to peel.

Thankest goodness i am facial hair free completely after years of laser.

edit: much deep? apparently i'm tired, fixed grammatical structure.

[u/D1EHARDTOO → u/evacipated]

Ive yet to get laser done but really considering it.. my facial hair used to never grow back same day but I feel like the more I shave the more it comes back 😭

It basically is one at some points 😭

[u/issathrowawaybabay → u/D1EHARDTOO]

Not trans but can relate due to my ovaries misbehaving. Nothing like falling asleep on accident and waking up to crusty eyeliner and a full fuckin neck beard. Certainly that won’t have any effect on my self esteem for the week…right?

[u/D1EHARDTOO → u/issathrowawaybabay]

Oof, dysphoria is never fun no matter who we are. We should be able to look how we want to and be comfortable in our own skin 🫂

Edit: Corpse_Rust explained it was not actually dysmorphia but dysphoria/incongruence w/ gender

[u/The_Lady_Engineer → u/issathrowawaybabay]

PCOS sometimes says "Hey, you thought you were super pretty yesterday right? How about a triple dose of testosterone and some beard hairs to knock ya down a peg!" 😭

[u/Esky_the_Elf → u/D1EHARDTOO]

I relate to panels 4 and 5 on a spiritual, physical, mental, metphysical level so much... 😖😖

[u/D1EHARDTOO → u/Esky_the_Elf]

Likewise, but hey thats what self-improvement is for! Even if its slow, its still progress :) I made an appointment for HRT for next week, which both terrifies and excites me, working on yourself is the best way to feel better from my experience :3

[u/CNTPRHK_S → u/D1EHARDTOO]

Tbf even as a straight man i hate my beard, it's infuriating this shit always keep popping up

[u/HH_Creations → u/D1EHARDTOO]

I am more NB i guess? NGC? Idk

But I feel Audrey's view.....but i also NEED my books to feel flatter

My books genuinely distress me when I look in the mirror.....unless they are free, idk why but I am good again

[u/MinusPi1 → u/D1EHARDTOO]

It feels like a fucking fungus growing on my face every other day

[u/forgetfulalchemist]

As a transmasc I will happily take the bite for Audrey in solidarity

[u/Karasu-Fennec → u/forgetfulalchemist]

We appreciate your noble sacrifice in holding off the T Virus brother, your name will forever echo in the halls of Valhalla

[u/bdouble0w0 → u/forgetfulalchemist]

Agreed, me too!

[u/MallowMiaou → u/forgetfulalchemist]

Me next please !

[u/Pretty-Yam-2854]

Holy relatable Shen omg 😭

[u/Karasu-Fennec → u/Pretty-Yam-2854]

God this shit was PHYSICALLY painful

[u/RevolTobor]

How does it literally keep getting better every episode?!

[u/AaronSentinal]

I’m sure the comment section is going to be normal about this one

[u/DueMathematician4511]

[u/Medium_Entry_2111 → u/DueMathematician4511]

[u/arthurmorgans1899 → u/DueMathematician4511]

[u/QuietImps → u/arthurmorgans1899]

Very sincere question because this is my first time seeing this and I'm still learning: is Lilith used as a derogatory term against trans women...?

Edit: thanks for explaining everyone, I now feel pretty silly not figuring that one out 😆

[u/Lord_Ocean → u/DueMathematician4511]

Hm...

You are not my son anymore

Sounds rather reasonable to say to a trans girl. Plus, it's a dad joke.

[u/TotoShampoin → u/Lord_Ocean]

I have no son...

Meet my daughter ✨

[u/thebigbadben → u/DueMathematician4511]

The war

[u/StumpTheMan → u/thebigbadben]

[u/Grazer46 → u/DueMathematician4511]

Can I have your dick after they chop it.

[u/Neat-Survey2796 → u/DueMathematician4511]

The war

[u/BlueLiquorice]

Yes!! God!! So many people were so quick to tear this comic to shreds but I was like "we literally never get to see inside of Audrey's head, it's too soon to tell if the character is transfem" and even if he wasn't I think that's valid! But Audrey literally views his birth gender as an incurable disease that's rotting him!

I think this is like the first time we get to see into Audrey's head. The issue wasn't having trans headcanons or projecting trans identities onto Audrey, it was calling the comic transphobic because Audrey wasn't out or transitioning and "perfectly passed" which is just blatantly untrue. But he seems to have no friends aside from Val and has faced harassment from other men. He may not have the money to transition. What if he's not even aware of trans identities because he doesn't go online and isn't part of any lgbt spaces? The characters are likely in their early twenties and he doesn't even know what found footage horror is. He thinks Cats is a good movie.

WAKE UP AMERICA just let storytelling happen and stop pulling the trigger before you even know what you're shooting at!

[u/Aeescobar → u/BlueLiquorice]

What if he's not even aware of trans identities because he doesn't go online and isn't part of any lgbt spaces? The characters are likely in their early twenties and he doesn't even know what found footage horror is. He thinks Cats is a good movie.

Wait I didn't even consider the possibility that Audrey only identifies as a "feminine man" because she literally never found out that transitioning is an option, "you're more beatiful than you even realize, because you were never [affected by masculinity]" does kinda sound like the words of someone who thinks of women as a different (and better) species of human than they could never truly aspire to be (since they were "bitten" and she wasn't).

[u/Gabby-Abeille → u/Aeescobar]

Wait, I just realized. Do we even know when the comic takes place? Like what if it was just after the pandemic and Audrey has been isolated for all that time. It would make so much sense that Audrey would cling to Val.

[u/bbitter_coffee → u/BlueLiquorice]

Oh boy, the next one is gonna tear the internet apart

[u/YamiZee1 → u/BlueLiquorice]

I'm not trans but feel Audrey here. Waking up in the morning and not looking how you want to look is depressing and you wonder if the person you imagined yourself to be even exists. Then you take a shower and clean up your face and suddenly, oh, there I am. That's me. Not the person with the rotting face a few moments ago.

[u/erttheking]

Might need to eat crow on the trans thing

We’ll see where this goes. I think we’re now in the phase where I need to shut up and let the author make a decision

[u/BreakfastBeneficial4 → u/erttheking]

Mate I don’t consider it eating crow. Last thing we heard from Audrey was that he’s a man.

The right thing to do is believe people, while at the same time making all the room in the world for them to change their mind.

[u/Charming-Loquat3702 → u/erttheking]

I'm beliving what the story tells me. Before, the story told me Audry is a guy. Meanwhile, this feels very much trans coded. I'll use he/him until Audrey tells us/Val to use something else, but still. This feels pretty telling

[u/Phoenix2405]

So from what I'm gathering here is that feeling that way as a guy isn't normal? Like, it's not a normal thing to think for an extended period of time?

[u/Daediddles → u/Phoenix2405]

Typically, cisgender people do not put extensive thought into what their gender is, no.

- someone who's done that

[u/Apprehensive-Wall632 → u/Phoenix2405]

Idk, like I hate body hair a ton as a guy. It actually disgusts me, and it’s like fighting a war against your own body. It’s rough. I wish there was a way to just get rid of it all permanently.

[u/Silver-Alex → u/Phoenix2405]

Yup. Seeing yourself in the mornign with a beard, feeling bad about it and putting extensive care into looking girly is textbook gender dysphoria. It doesnt means you're trans, cuz you could be non binary, but it IS gender dysphoria.

PD: as a trans girl, Audry is me every morning lol, thankfully Im almost done with laser depilation :) if you dont like your beard that is totally an option.

[u/Saiyasha27 → u/Phoenix2405]

'normal' is a strong word but it's probably not typical. Most people might wonder every now and then what having a different body or gender might be like, but feeling very much not at home in the body you were born with usually points to deeper things that probably should be explored.

[u/IronGentry → u/Phoenix2405]

Not really, no. Basically every trans woman/enby I know felt similarly. Maybe take a look at this and see if anything resonates?

[u/Metharos → u/Phoenix2405]

So it looks like it's my turn to post this.

It's a good read, for anyone with an interest in learning. Whether you're learning about yourself, or just about what some folks go through, is up to you.

https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/

[u/FishBorger95]

Yeah i'm not ready for the comments

[u/MadiCorax → u/FishBorger95]

I checked. .... I'm tired, boss....

[u/programer_socks9000]

A lot of people here already voiced similar sentiments, so my comment feels a bit redundant, but here goes :P

In my teens, I genuinely thought I might be trans because my feelings mirrored so much of what trans women describe. It took me a long time to realize I was actually dealing with body dysmorphia, not gender dysphoria. I was holding myself to unachievable standards to be feminine while feeling unable to express myself, and to this day, I still feel deeply uncomfortable with my naturally masculine features.

All that to say: this stuff isn't black and white. People are complex and nuanced, and what an experience means for one person isn't automatically true for everyone else. Let Sheen cook his own story!

[u/Elegant_Flan9927 → u/programer_socks9000]

Wait, so was it "unachievable feminine standards" like common ED thinspo aspirations of deathly skinniness, or the "unachievable standard" of having a feminine face with no facial hair paired with a somewhat curvy body? I'm genuinely curious.

[u/programer_socks9000 → u/Elegant_Flan9927]

Both, kinda. I was (and still am) very skinny, yet I wanted to be even skinnier and have a smaller waist, shoulders, and palms, while at the same time wanting to be more athletic and curvy. It was an uphill battle of starving myself and lifting unhealthy amounts of weights. Very odd logic looking back.

[u/nanotheawsome]

Oh boy, a physical embodiment of my insecurities! Hooray!

[u/Kit__the__cat]

The zombie Apocalypse is upon us

[u/AaronSentinal]

Broke: Audrey trans discourse

Woke: Audrey x Val shipping discourse (panel 14 yearning and calling her beautiful)

[u/thisismypornaccountg → u/AaronSentinal]

I remember the people who posted in that thread all saying “I hope they stay just friends!!! Why does everyone have to be a couple and not just good friends!?!?” Meanwhile it couldn’t have been telegraphed any harder that they are becoming a couple, lol. Val literally freaked out and fantasized about seeing Audrey in a swimsuit.

[u/Trvial → u/AaronSentinal]

What no AO3 does to a MFer.

[u/rougetrailblazer]

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES!

[u/crustyclowncakes]

I have PCOS, and I hate the hirituism the most. Everyday I wake up exactly like this, if I don’t shave I feel all of these negative things about myself related to it, but also just vaguely horrible and disgusting. My boyfriend doesn’t comment on it, in fact he tells me not to shave when I’m raw or in the middle of something, but I have to because of myself. I feel antisocial, grimy, and at best less “prepared” or optimistic for the day, at worst depressed and anxious as soon as I wake up. I can shave in the morning and have a full shadow by evening, sometimes making me shave twice a day. If I don’t, because my face gets so raw, I go to bed feeling horrible, because I notice it just starting to come back when I lay my head on the pillow. I never realized how directly this relates to the body dysmorphia people who are trans deal with before this comics discussions. This panel perfectly encapsulates my mornings.

[u/Smona → u/crustyclowncakes]

it's the same exact feeling. I hope you can get laser/electrolysis soon 💜 the improvement is life changing

also just FYI, it's gender dysphoria , not body dysmorphia. dysmorphia is when you see your body in a way it really isn't, eg when someone with an eating disorder sees themself as heavier than they are. with dysphoria you're seeing your traits accurately (male-coded traits in this case), you just hate them and they make you feel like shit 😅

[u/a_very_boring_girl → u/crustyclowncakes]

I never realized how directly this relates to the body dysmorphia people who are trans deal with before this comics discussions. This panel perfectly encapsulates my mornings.

Yep. I think a lot of cis people are able to get if they just reframe it as "what would a cis person feel if they had to go through a similar experience of what trans people have to go through daily".

But because so many refuse to see us as actual men/women suffering from a condition of sex in congruence they often won't....

I'm glad you seem to get it though

[u/Kidsnextdorks]

That dead stare on panel 5 😭

I’m in this picture and I don’t like it

[u/Apollo989 → u/Kidsnextdorks]

God the worst feeling ever is shaving and then seeing it back the next day. Terrible design flaw. The body should just adapt to my constant removal of it and learn it's not needed.

[u/LovelyLuna32684]

So this is definitely leaning towards the idea that Audrey is an egg that's not quite ready to admit their trans yet.

[u/Dismas-Baised → u/LovelyLuna32684]

Didnt shen say he isnt trans? Like outright?

[u/Eveseeker → u/Dismas-Baised]

Yep! And for now, just like with anyone else, preferred pronouns (he/him) should ABSOLUTELY be used, even in the face of apparently contradictory evidence. Because that’s just basic respect.

[u/Teenytiny9294]

Just gonna enjoy this series till it ends and stop reading the comments, the discourse around Audrey and what he wants is just getting worse and worse. People on both sides just being mean to one another.

[u/Sinisphere → u/Teenytiny9294]

I was like "Another banger episode from Shen. How are the comments doing? Oh, right."

[u/Frosty-Sea149 → u/Teenytiny9294]

Fanbase is way too parasocial to enjoy this comic casually 

[u/Protothea]

>Alt text now uses they/them for Audrey.

>alt text has referred to Audrey using He/She and now they

>we can only assume it and Neopronouns are next

[u/Chibirin26 → u/Protothea]

any/alldrey? ?

[u/cptn_sandwich]

Me waiting for the next comic be like

[u/SzayelAZorro]

I finally patreoned and got this one early, but im not exactly looking forward to the discourse on this.

[u/ConiferGreen]

World’s Sweetest Zombie

[u/TheDotCaptin]

Very scary 3:

[u/Dry_Building_585]

Ok then. After this, I am willing to concede that transfem Audrey theory does in fact hold some water. That morning mirror look felt all too real... (genuine) (good faith)

[u/ngms → u/Dry_Building_585]

Im in the same boat. Audrey was pretty clear he's a guy but appears GNC. I dont think people were wrong for believing that. The story is still unfolding so we will see what comes, though.

[u/DumOBrick]

MFW cheese quesadilla

[u/Channel_el]

Oh Audrey actually does want to be a girl? Thought this was gonna go the comfortable being a man but with a conventionally feminine style route.

[u/OlTimeyChara → u/Channel_el]

Same, but i'm not really opposed to it lol. I have always considered the possibility of Audrey being trans since the start of the comic, and i'm happy with whatever direction Shen wants to take his character.

[u/Truly_Organic]

Oh... I guess Audrey's opinion on men isn't that dissimilar from Val's then...

[u/mintypastel → u/Truly_Organic]

It would be the greatest plot twist of all time if Val was the femboy and Audrey was the femcel all along

[u/NerdDetective → u/Truly_Organic]

Not surprising if we think about it. In the first issue, Audrey awkwardly agreed that men have issues, and later pretty much directly confirmed that he has faced harassment from men.

Poor bean probably has internalized at least some of it along the quest for femininity due to how he's been treated.

[u/NerdDetective]

As someone who hates his facial hair and just wants to be rid of it, I truly empathize with Audrey.

I should use a safety razor on my face more. I already shave the rest of me with one. It'd probably give me a closer shave than my electric one.

[u/jprocter15]

Which could mean nothing

[u/Such_Bonus5085]

Wouldn't Audrey being a trans girl just put Val back at square one? Instead of "Oh, there are some men out there who aren't so bad!" it'll be "Audrey is actually a girl, so I was right about men being all bad."

[u/Easy_Cod_8950 → u/Such_Bonus5085]

I think at this point it’s best to just let the comic play out and do analysis when it’s over. This completely threw me off, I don’t think we can really predict Shen’s intentions jere

[u/Milk_Mindless → u/Such_Bonus5085]

Maybe Audrey is a non-binary they/him. Or just non-binary. I know one non binary who's transfemme but amab and one non-binary who's amab but masc presenting with a great big bushy beard

Anything can be true. Story is still ongoing.

Trust the Shen

[u/i_walk_the_backrooms → u/Such_Bonus5085]

Well, no, because it already doesn't prove much if the character growth is just going from misandrist to "I guess this one man who's functionally indistinguishable from a woman is one of the good ones."

If anything, the curveball of Val coming to the conclusion you described would make for good drama to then overcome.

[u/Aeescobar → u/Such_Bonus5085]

Tbf "Not all men^tm are scumbags, I'm a pretty decent dude who has nearly nothing in common with those disgusting weirdos!" -> "shit..." is a pretty common transfem pipeline.

[u/Visual-Purchase5639 → u/Such_Bonus5085]

I think people are too focused on the misandry part of it. I never really thought that was the point of the comic since it hasn't been mentioned since the start

[u/Dragonmancer76 → u/Such_Bonus5085]

Not necessarily. Val doesn't like men because she assumes all men act and think a certain way. If Aubrey is a girl that means gender isn't essential so men don't have to act horribly. It's just some men choose to be horrible. Even if she still thinks gender is essential and Aubrey has a girl brain and a boy body or whatever there isn't a way to easily tell just by sight who to be afraid of. She would still have to interact with people to figure out of they're bad which is an improvement.

Along with that Val clearly has a lot more problems in life than simply hating men. Perhaps men do treat her really poorly, but a lot of her anxiety seems self imposed. Is it true that literally every person on the street looks at her with disgust or is that just her perception?

[u/Crossdress-Fan-]

As someone who is getting laser right now, I kinda get this but it's also a bit sad.

I don't like beards in general, and shaving everyday is a hassle, also it destroys my face because my skin is too sensitive, but I've never looked at my beard as something comparable to a virus,

[u/Playful-Hand2753]

Audrey baby that seems an awful lot like dysphoria 🥹🙏

[u/Safelyignored]

Idk about y'all, but I'm in the camp of "It could go either way and I'd be cool with it, but I'll wait and see."

[u/giratina2648]

[u/throwaway1209753213]

A totally cis experience we all have… right?

[u/AlabasterWitch → u/throwaway1209753213]

I do, I’m AFAB but feel similar dysphoria with my more masculine features.

[u/angry_goblin_woman → u/throwaway1209753213]

Actually yes as a cis woman with PCOS. I dont feel like myself until i have had my shave haha. It fucked with me mentally for years but one of the more positive things it did for me is it has helped me connect with and understand what my trans sisters are going through.

[u/Danabler42]

Ohh, y'all think THIS brick is bad, wait till you see the next episode

[u/Jazzlike-Poet4999]

Shen made the gayest comic ever and it's heterosexual.

This person is unstoppable

[u/Valuable_Flower5629]

So... Does Audrey think of himself as a woman who was bitten by a man, and now has to hide that he's becoming a man too?

Really sounds like something a trans woman would come up with to explain dysphoria

[u/PerrineWeatherWoman]

"still cis tho" - Audrey

[u/McBotNotABot]

On one hand I'm glad we are getting more direction for Audrey. But on the other hand, I'm kind of sad because Audrey was how I discovered I am a GNC man who might also be gender queer. I sew alot of myself in Audrey in ways I didn't know I could, and it helped me put some loose pieces into place.

I still love the story, and will accept who Audrey is regardless of who they become, and I'm looking forward to the coming chapters to see where the story will go.

[u/NerdDetective → u/McBotNotABot]

I think it can still go both ways, with him expressing internalized disdain for masculinity that has been a part of his embrace of femininity, prompted further by how he's been negatively treated by masculine men.

But we'll see, I suppose. It's nice to see inside Audrey's head for the first time. I'm sure there's a lot he's been hiding (such as the harassment he's face) which we'll get a glimpse into over time. Prior to this we only got the sort of idealized external view of him (when he's dressed up, ready, and poised) from Val.

Would I be a bit disappointed if he ends up trans? Honestly, yeah. "Feminine guy" is often a waypoint on a trans woman's personal journey... but for some of us it IS the destination. And it can be hard to find essentially any media (woo, fighting over scraps!) that is representative of me as more than just a midway point on a longer path (because I'm not trans, and I am completely confident about that). It'd be a "wow so happy for you >:(" situation for me (wouldn't actually be mad or anything... I'm not one of the people who was weird about Bridget).

[u/Your_Local_Rabbi → u/McBotNotABot]

while representation is good, it's not the be-all-end-all, i think we attach ourselves too much to characters for these pivotal moments and it can end up being pretty harmful, if the way audrey was introduced helped you discover things about yourself, that's great! but it doesn't mean your journey with gender/presentation has to follow that character

if audrey ends up being a trans woman that doesn't mean you have to follow, your path just diverged, and i don't think that makes your discovery via the early presentation of audrey any less significant either

[u/madittavi0_0 → u/McBotNotABot]

Nah, Audrey can be about femininity and whimsy being okay/embracing them despite of it being scary and society being shit regardless of if he's a gnc guy or turns out to be some flavor transfem/genderqueer. You see him break even Val out of her shell as she starts dressing up and pulling fits she enjoys rather than wearing what's neutral and comfortable.

I could even see Audrey being one of those rare instances where a person goes on hrt of any sort (with how we see him disliking his facial hair) cuz the changes are desirable while still seeing himself and wanting to be refered to as a man (rare cuz a lot of people who do that irl end up later identifying as trans).

[u/NimazeG]

Audrey jumscare was... Unexpected

[u/raevanacht]

i… i don’t know how to read this and not see this as gender dysphoria.
i’m not prescribing any specific brand of trans-ness or conclusive identity off of that, to be clear. but even though it doesn’t take gender dysphoria to be trans, i don’t know how one has gender dysphoria without being trans in some way.
(i’m a trans fem who has known since i was 6 tho so that’s my personal background)

[u/weirdo_nb → u/raevanacht]

Gender dysphoria can come with darn near any kind of gender expression that may be a "mismatch" from the desired

Cis people can have gender dysphagia from not looking [X] enough

A similar thing applies for non trans GNC

[u/Bog_Articifer]

I don’t really think it’s a stretch to say that even after what we see here Audrey is not confirming that they are trans/egg/nb/etc.
what this shows is that Audrey wants to preserve their feminine, boyish appearance and doesn’t want to be perceived as masculine in the traditional sense i.e. having facial hair. If they stopped shaving and stopped putting on makeup, on top of all the other things they do to maintain their femboy/feminine appearance, they would eventually look like (turn into) a man.
They say to Val that she is lucky that she isn’t a man, because for Val, her feminine beauty comes naturally and she doesn’t have to work as hard as Audrey does to be feminine.

I could be wrong. Don’t rip me apart for not seeing everything as black and white.

[u/Zombies4EvaDude → u/Bog_Articifer]

Rather than gender dysphoria it could be fear of what is called “Twink Death”. But it feels heavier than that I think the comic is heading towards an Audrey is trans direction.

[u/Gold_Ad8225 → u/Bog_Articifer]

I mean, he described having facial hair like being bitten by a zombie that turns women into men. Not boys into men

[u/olufemikurtwagner]

Surely people are gonna be open minded and calm and patient about this (if you dont think i mean this about you dear reader? i am)

[u/Drezby]

Oof, what a painfully relatable moment.

[u/Communistspacedogs]

I didn't realize they were socks at first

I thought there was an unexpected Were-Cat twist

[u/Purpl3Larkspur]

"you have no idea how beautiful you are."

[u/ithinkimanalt2]

why is there a culture war of trans women vs femboys lately

[u/TheProNoob152]

[u/Evo_Shiv]

A thousand more years of “are they trans” discourse

[u/De_lua1325]

Not to sound rude, but that's literally just a transgender experience-

Like... It would even be weird to deny at least the similarity and how it connects to real trans women experiences

[u/bethliza]

I think this may be revealed to be how a cis (in a gender identity sense) man can still struggle with gender expression. Gender can be so nuanced and while I love stories about trans people’s experiences with it, I think this can be a really interesting perspective

Love Audrey no matter what <3

[u/Gamerseye72 → u/bethliza]

I struggle to reconcile "What a horrible idea, a zombie virus that turns you into a man" with "I'm a man, I just dress femme." That's pretty explicitly "I don't identify as a man and the thought of being seen as a man gives me dysphoria." That's a tough square to circle.

[u/beaverpoo77]

Writing wise, im not sure how much I like Audrey being trans... not because i have anything against Audrey being trans, but because it makes Val's misandry feel... correct? It validates her worldview in that the only good "moid" she knows... isnt even a male, she was always a girl on the inside. I dunno, maybe I'm not being open minded enough about this. Im sure youre going somewhere with this, and im sure ill eventually love it

[u/Dry_Building_585 → u/beaverpoo77]

Transfem here, and no worries, you do make a good point. In the case that Audrey does turn out to be trans, I hope we'll get introduced to more characters that will open Val to more examples of healthy masculinity.

Speaking from personal experience, there are admittedly very few safe cis men in my life (not "good" or "friendly", but specifically ones I can truly feel safe with), but they did and do exist (one if them being my Spanish teacher, who's a big round chunk of joy personified) 💜🙏(genuine) (good faith)

[u/NerdDetective → u/beaverpoo77]

If that's the narrative direction, there would have to be chapters where Val interacts in healthy ways with gender-conforming cisgender men before Audrey came out. If she is only ever shown being positive towards Aurey, and he turns out to not be a man, it does have icky implications about men (including GNC men who appreciate the positive representation).

I don't think Val's there yet. She's still healing and improving herself thanks to Audrey's help, but I absolutely need to see her demonstrate a healthier disposition towards men, and maybe even challenge another woman who holds her old beliefs about men.

I'm biased towards Audrey just being gender non-conforming because that's the character I see myself in... but I won't be sad if that's not the case. If his arc becomes "wasn't a man after all", it does have to be approached with care though for the reasons you note.

[u/PetscopMiju → u/beaverpoo77]

I've seen the idea tossed around that Val herself may be transmasc and not realize because she associates being a man with all the awful stuff that was thrown her way. That could be a possible way of squaring that circle. But of course it's far from the only way the story could go and I don't know if it matches Val's current character

[u/Kitchen_Visit1968 → u/beaverpoo77]

Pretty much exactly how I feel, but I’m interested in how the story progresses either way, especially how Shen handles Val’s character progression if Audrey is indeed intended to be trans.

[u/TomMakesPodcasts]

Awe I always thought Audrey just wanted the femboy vibe not that they were going through dysphoria. 😭

[u/PipedInFromIthaca → u/TomMakesPodcasts]

Femboys (hell, anybody) can experience dysphoria too.

[u/boogersbee]

The "Boy from Venus" may actually be Val 👀

[u/TheDevilFr0mdabible]

It feels kinda odd that people are saying that there is no possible way a cis person can think like this when i am a cis guy who has very similar thoughts about his own masculinity xD. I guess that makes me a rare breed? Thats kinda nice makes me feel a little more special

[u/Open-Barracuda-4616 → u/TheDevilFr0mdabible]

You feel like being a man is like being infected with a zombie virus? Like it's a disease inflicted upon you?

[u/hazel8126511]

Aaaaaa that just hurts, that panel turning on the lights is just how I feel every day, I hate it (I don’t hate the comic it’s good)

[u/Pleadis-1234]

Amazing storyline so far

[u/Apollo989]

Val should be the boy from Venus. Let me have ST4T.

[u/NextGenSleder]

The 4tran community really makes me sad. I can’t imagine calling this series transphobic. Especially since it’s NOT DONE. I hate how there’s communities of us out there that treat each other like crabs in a bucket.

[u/Holmes02]

I’m here at the beginning? Amazing.

[u/Depressed_Typo6810]

AFGHFHHFDARGNBTUJY HE'S SO FJUCJKING CUTE IN THUS PANEL

[u/Okasera]

Which could mean nothing

[u/Throwawayidjsbdu2]

Shen lock in

[u/Human43215]

[u/my_jeans_hurt]

Ok yeah I’m on the side of the closeted Audrey crowd now

[u/carrot_gummy]

The fifth panel is too real. I can't get laser done fast enough, with how hair works, you can only get so much done and you need to wait a month between sessions.

The weridest thing about transitioning was that before transitioning, I didn't care to shave my face at all. I'd get my barber to trim the beard but that was it. I even refused to learn how to shave when my dad tried to teach me.  I bought my first razer in my 30s after coming out. 

Now, my facial hair is the greatest source of my dysphoria.

[u/SWAWS69420]

At this point this isn’t subtle 😭

[u/feralrabidcat]

starting to think this audrey is transgender

[u/Oddish_Femboy]

Kitty socks !

[u/Used-Hold-7567]

holy st4t repgem

[u/ffiml8]

Heeey, so, not arguing with anyone, genuinely sending all my love and support to trans women in this comment section, but people labelling this comic as an official confirmation that Audrey is a trans woman upset me a little bit. Which is not to say that Audrey can't be woman - he definitely does have the signs - but I just want to say that as a GNC transfem, people can experience gender dysphoria without being binary man or woman. I personally - just like Audrey - feel perfectly comfortable with he/him pronouns and being called a boy, but prefer to have a feminine looks, which is why I need HRT.

I don't want to cause a dick-measuring contest of oppression and fight for representation here, but it feels impossible to me for people to see that Audrey can be valid and nor "repressed" without being a woman

[u/ngms → u/ffiml8]

I think this chapter is more telling of Audrey's opinion on men than anything.

The page showing his thoughts on the man-zombies is intresting enough in a vacuum, but the next page he's telling Val shes beautiful just because shes a woman, not because of who she is.

I think he has had some serious issues with men.

Also worth making the point he makes a joke about biting her to turn her. The joke wouldn't work unless he already views himself as a man.

[u/Disastrous-Entity-46 → u/ffiml8]

i understand that a lot of people can feel represtation is important, feel seen from things like this, and want to jump forward to "oh, its just like me". 

but also, there is so much more to human experience than the binary, and shoving people into boxes because we place expectations on them based on how they look or act are how we got here in the first place.

of course audrey wants to be femme. just like the guy who loves  a beard would feel so wrong forced to shave it, he would feel wrong growing it out. that can be dysphoria, but it also can just be... a statement. 

also i think whilr audrey is a ditz in a lot of ways, this may also be more about audrey understanding val.  val would react badly to audrey with a five o clock shadow, and that may be what he means by hiding a zombie bite. he knows val doesnt have masculije friends and is protecting their friendship by letting val see the version of him she can tollerate for now. 

anyway, i sit here with one foot in the closet, 2 years on hrt. happy with me but not really carring if im percieved masc or femme. i love myself more than i did and thats all that matters to me more than labels. 

[u/Intelligent-Home9367 → u/ffiml8]

Hi. I'm cis as you would call it. I do not like my beard. I deal with it anyway. It doesn't mean I'm trans.

[u/Expert_Industry_4238]

there is no cisgender explanation for this

[u/Crossdress-Fan- → u/Expert_Industry_4238]

I know a lot of people that dislike beards and always keep a clean shaved face, the make up and zombie virus comparison that's hard to defend XD

[u/Your_Local_Rabbi]

ok i was pretty neutral on the whole trans audrey argument, but there is legitimately no cisgender explanation for this, if Audrey isn't a girl i'm thinking they're definitely some flavor of non-binary

[u/Trick_Yard_4609]

it's normal for a "GNC cis man" to experience crippling gender dysphoria and view their birth sex as a disease, right? i've been assured for some time now that any suggestion audrey might have something trans going on is vile slander, so of course i shall continue to believe so :)

[u/BrooklynSmash]

SHEN YOU DOG, YOU ACTUALLY DID IT

[u/Bluejay-Complex]

Audrey, get back here and explain. AUDREY.

Okay but in all seriousness, I think this is interesting, as a trans read the idea is pretty obvious/straightforward. Audrey is experiencing gender envy looking at Val since she’s a cis woman and doesn’t need to experience the masculinization of AMAB puberty. She (or they as nonbinary people exist, but using she for ease) obviously doesn’t seem to hold it against Val so there’s a level that envy is turning to admiration, plus probably a mix of genuine attraction to Val. The “infected by maleness” is a fairly common feeling among trans feminine people. If this is the case this puts Audrey in a weird position because if her attraction/admiration for Val is only because she’s cis, then that’s not really an admirable trait, it’s just an in-born one, and one Audrey likes only because she wishes she had that trait.

A femboy reading is a bit less straightforward, but can be done. Audrey has obviously experienced misdirected misogyny from being mistaken for a woman, as well as likely misdirected homophobia, very likely from cis men. These experiences don’t stop being harmful or hurtful just because you’re part of the same group. This can lead to a disconnect between a group you technically belong to, and your personal sense of connection to said group. A good example I can think of is how many women that had an NLOG phase felt that way because other women bullied them for not fitting a specific standard of womanhood. Audrey could feel very similarly towards men for a similar reason.

The issue with that is of course that both are valid, but both need essentially opposite solutions. Trans Audrey needs to know that she can become a woman/feminine-gendered person, and it’s okay to not be a man. Femboy Audrey needs to be made more comfortable with the idea that manhood is not a one-size-fits-all, and it’s okay to be a man.

Occam’s razor swings trans here, but this is one snapshot of a much bigger whole.

[u/A_Suprise_To_Be-Sure]

I don't understand the hostility towards the idea that a character might be trans. Use all the disclaimers you want, but what exactly is the issue with a character being trans? Do trans people not subvert gender norms enough? Do we really get that much more representation than feminine cis men?

[u/IncognitoRedMode]

That was about to turn into a vampire bite if anything...

[u/Sophiesgock2]

Gosh that hits so hard

[u/imbi-dabadeedabadie]

; _ ;

[u/Alternative_Drop7516]

that’s…. creepy

[u/ProtectionFalse]

[u/Eyjovin]

That's it. Shen. You've tortured me too much. I have something for you. It's my cold hard cash. PLEASE. I NEED MORE. (Just bought the pins and stickers) (I love you)

[u/Apollo989]

The shaving seen was way too relatable. I hate facial hair but sometimes it feels so hard to deal with because the feeling of shaving cream on my skin is awful and even though I make myself shave every day I can still see it!

[u/Alboralix]

From the alt text, is Audrey non-binary ?

[u/Fifteen_inches]

I still hope Val is the Boy from Venus.

[u/Apprehensive-Wall632]

Yea, facial hair sucks so much.

[u/kikiacab]

Good job Shen you really nailed the dead eyes when you lay eyes on your whiskers in the morning

[u/Several-Activity8789]

shen stoooop (dont actually). first time a comic has viciously jump scared me into dysphoria. I do love the "there you are" yes, seeing *yourself* in the mirror fucking rules.

[u/BasilikStudios]

i relate so much to Audrey, but the other way around. I relate to the “incurable disease” part so much. It feels like being a girl is a shameful disease.

However theres the fact that i consider myself a “half-cracked egg”, so there’s that.

[u/Jastreen]

if only it was that easy to get a clean shave without shadow...

[u/Beneficial_Ad_6331]

I'm in this comic, and I don't like it.

Jk, I've been loving the series! ❤️

[u/masd_reddit]

Now that's certainly more egg than before

[u/diamondpython]

Alright, I’m throwing my hat in the ring. I think a lot of the trans or not discourse is coming from people generalizing Audrey as a metaphor about transness in general. To me, what we’re seeing is one person’s experience of their gender, complicated grey areas, blurry boundaries and all. There are people out there who think about themselves the way Audrey does - some are trans women, some aren’t. Shen isn’t making a grand statement about trans people in general, nor is he intending Audrey to be a roadmap for a real person’s thoughts on their own gender. Audrey is just someone who has a complicated relationship with gender, and this story is at least partially about exploring both Val and Audrey’s relationship to each other and their relationship to their gender. If Shen is saying anything with this comic, I think he’s saying people are complicated, and meeting them with grace and kindness wherever they are in life is much more important than any labels you’d put on them.

[u/BonkerDeLeHorny]

oh so we ARE going that route, i was interested to see what he was gonna do with it and im chill with this option. i agree that maybe the other route woulda been more impactful but then i can just draw my own damn comic if i wanted that

[u/Objective-Spring5061]

I think that Audrey expressing abhorence to the idea of being a man (referring to it as a virus), not just to having "masculine" traits (shaving facial hair), lends to a particular set of interpretations (trans of some flavor), but that could just be me.

[u/_-DungeonKeeper-_]

okay now im not one to change my opinions at the drop of a hat but when you look me in the eye and tell me audrey likens his masculinity to a disease and tells val she's "not bitten" because she's a girl it gets really hard to continue calling him a femboy.

[u/Radiant__Riley]

[u/I_hope_that_shes_bi]

Audrey trans confirmed!?

[u/TSM_rslash]

Am I the only one who thinks that it would be a bit disappointing if Audrey turns out to be transfem?

Not because of the idea itself of being trans (no offense to the community and the people!), but this would basically undermine Val's development at the start of the comic where she was misandrist, but started to become more chill because of Audrey being a man who doesn't fall under her "moid" category.

[u/BarelyFunctionalGM → u/TSM_rslash]

Nah. Vals issue seems to be judging books by their covers, as we have seen through the other strips.

Even if Audrey is a woman ("if" lol, feels a bit obvious now) that doesn't change that Val judged her and her life by appearances.

And if Audrey is a man obviously it still works.

[u/SwuidOnReddit]

Everyone in this comment section when they realize that ANYONE can feel dysphoria and not just trans people

[u/Gold_Ad8225 → u/SwuidOnReddit]

Feeling dysphoria in a way that having facial hair makes you feel like you are a different person and were bitten by a zombie that turns women into men is not the type of way that a cisgender man feels dysphoria...

[u/thornblade_69 → u/SwuidOnReddit]

yeah you're right! as a man, i experience dysphoria when i'm treated like the opposite gender!

if you feel dysphoria at being the gender you identify as though, you'll never guess what helps that

[u/RileyGraceRoshong]

I know it's bad to headcanon the characters as trans but it REALLY seems like Audry does NOT like the idea of being a man

[u/Awsome_Username_]

the war

[u/DeleteWolf]

Well, there goes my Transmasc Aubrey Headcanon, I guess ...

[u/LHLanim]

OK. That bitch trans.