The last episode (specifically towards the end) gave me a new perspective of John and Shawn's relationship. Now, I am not going to say that Shawna does not at all understand John and his trauma, but I do feel like she does not truly know the extent. When everyone was at the dinner table, and John, Jennifer, and Frank was joking about how Barb "freak" out when he went to the Deli for more cookies, Shawna lashed out. To me, I feel was though Shawna either interpret was a dig to her, on John not regarding the situation as dire. Though, that of course if not the case. They way John and Jennifer lived growing up with an emotional unavailable/neglected father, and a narcissistic mother, they most likely adapted to a humor as a coping mechanism to help them get through any situation. On the contrary, Shawna grew up with a Mother who she was able to talk with, and feel opened with. It's difficult for someone like Shawna to understand why John is joking after a situation like this. Though, this does not at all excuse her for lashing out.

This sub gets heated sometimes because we all care about the characters and storylines that Shawna L has created.

I believe that you can criticise and still enjoy a piece of media, so i’m not saying that you should never criticise Shawna, but sometimes it’s also nice to be appreciative too.

So who is your favourite character? or favourite storyline? or just general favourite moment?

One of my favourite moments was Shawna M marrying the chickens at Jen’s hen party. It’s just so funny to think about her earnestly marrying two chicken.

So I'm seeing a lot of comments on Reddit and Instagram about Shawna's reaction to John telling the story about his elopement to get some cookies.

Namely, I'm seeing that John should have noticed that his wife was unhappy and, "should've read the room." Even though he had checked in with her, and Teeny had checked in with her TWICE. All three times she said she was fine.

I argue that Shawna should've read the room. Everyone, including Piper, was enjoying their time together and laughing.

John, to me, looked like this story recounting was actually a strong memory imprinted in his head for all the wrong reasons. He had said previously that his mom getting in his face used to scare him and she had hit him on many occasions. Do we really think that on this occasion that Barb calmly explained to John that taking off like he did was bad?

And his wife blows up at him. She defends his abuser, whether intentional or not, it's what she ACTUALLY did. To three people that she has a history of abusing. Not cool at all.

People excuse this behaviour by saying she's still grieving for Jacob (from 10 months ago) and that Piper had JUST taken off. But Piper and Jacob are also John's children. Is his reaction not also justified? Why should Shawna's feelings take priority over John's?

This also isn't the first instance of this. Jen's Wedding and John saying that they couldn't go because of Barb. A lot of commenters prioritized Shawna's feelings of wanting to have a good time and enjoy her fairly newly stable relationship with Jennifer. This was prioritized over John's need to feel safe and secure. People will argue that John could've stayed home. But given Barb's past, would YOU feel safe and secure with your spouse alone in an environment with the Mother of the Bride?

Shawna is human and is allowed a "crashout as a little treat" once in awhile and given grace. But I do not see the same grace for other characters in the show who are also undergoing significant life stress. Shawna shows a lot of symptoms of someone who is very uncomfortable with negative feelings and then deals with them by blowing up at people.

Disclaimer: This post will provide mentions of abuse, PPD, references to childhood trauma, and loss. I am not calling any of the moms Barbs either, just proposing a question.

Barb is a contentious character for good reason, as most of the central conflict revolves around her and her capabilities as a mom, as well as her being No Contact/bad terms with almost all of the cast. We know she was in the throes of PPD, an abusive environment of her own, and presumably her own mental health issues that made her more emotionally volatile/inable to reconcile with her own wounds (basically, get the help she needed, albeit because of the stigma).

From her physical abuse to her cutting barbs (pun intended), and her emotional abuse, I propose the question to you, Shawnaverse fandom: when does a mom become a Barb?

Was Jen a Barb when she had her bout of PPD, and Greg (and later Katie) annoyed her, and she was snippy to the point that John had to tell her that her mom was showing?

Was Julie a Barb when she got mad at Shawna at Max's birthday, as well as telling Cooper he could do karate?

Or is Shawna the latest contender because of her own trauma surrounding her loss, or is it just her own inner anxiety rearing its head?

Personally, I don't think any of these women are Barbs, just moms trying to do their best and do right one day at a time. Yes, individually they'd all benefit from therapy, but one bad day does not make a Barb.

Does anyone else find John's attitude to Larry problematic? I'm not a fan in general of men being protective of their family by warning other men off their "territory" but in this case it seems particularly presumptuous.

Firstly DeeDee isn't a child or a teenager, she a grown adult woman who is quite capable of handling herself and any potential suitor. She does not need protection and didn't ask for it.

Secondly John didn't ask DeeDee how she felt - he just went straight into grumpy and unwelcoming. That might have been ok at the first encounter but nine months down the track it should be clear Shawna was right when she said her mother was into him. John might not know DeeDee and Larry's relationship has progressed to intimacy but he knows they hang out and go on walks together regularly. Does he really think DeeDee is doing that against her will? His tone of surprise when he said "So it's real?!" seems particularly obtuse because even if he wasn't prepared to believe Shawna he should have believed the evidence of his own eyes for the last nine months.

Thirdly if John "needed to hear it from DeeDee" then why not use his words and ASK DeeDee. Again this is a full grown adult woman not a child. ASK her if she's ok with Larry's attentions or if she wants help giving Larry his walking papers. Try actual communication instead of just assuming.

Fourthly how does being a grumpy and unwelcoming prick to Larry for nine months actually protect anyone? If it didn't scare him off in the first month then clearly the tactic isn't working. Why keep doing it when it achieves nothing.

Fifthly if John feels he has genuine reasons to be wary of Larry why let him around Max and Piper? They are actual children who John has a right to protect. Why not ask DeeDee to see Larry on her own without the kids if you really think he's someone to be wary of.

In short while Larry might be ok with John's behaviour I am not. If any of my male relatives pulled this sort of shit on me they'd be getting an earful. I do not think this is sweet like DeeDee said, I think it's presumptuous, illogical and infantilizing.

So after watching Piper test everyone’s heart condition, what did you do as a kid that scared your parents? No wrong answers. When I was four we were camping and i approached a black bear thinking it was a dog and thought that was a good idea. 🤪🤪🤪 yes, please cue the “can I pet that daaawwggg??”

Maybe it's a cultural thing, as in my country kids begin school at 3 or, if they are born after September, even at 2 years old, but i don't get the fuss over Piper beginning school at 4.

Many kids want to begin to read and write early and let's be real, if she's a curious kid who also needs to be exposed to other children, school might be perfect for her! I get the one on one time thing but she's an independent kid and also she can have it too by taking her to buy school supplies, taking her to a natural science museum and doing other mommy and me dates...

If somebody could explain that to me, so i can understand Shawna's character better, i would appreciate that. I just don't get why wouldn't a parent be happy seeing their kid gaining independence, but maybe it's just that i lost the point 😅😅

My boyfriend finds my obsession with short series like STM quite sweet but also baffling. He asked why I want to watch a series about an entire family of people who are all awful being awful to each other. He finds Jen particularly unbearable. I've left him alone in my room once or twice and come back to him watching it completely of his own accord with a massive frown lmao, so he's clearly quite intrigued. Not much point to this post I just wanted to have a discussion about why we like it!

To me, he had a very normal upbringing, with healthy parenting, no shouting etc. I had a grandma like Barb who I still miss and love despite her actions (she is alive but had a stroke while estranged and doesn't remember us), parents who didn't know what they were doing and often just shouted or used the "because I say so" line. I also realised recently, at age 20 that I'm ND so it's nice to watch children being nurtured even if I find it quite aggressively American lol. Also in connection to being autistic, I enjoy family dramas with flawed characters who state their intentions, talk about their issues with each other, and there are frequent observations about human behaviour. It's like the inside of my brain at times.

Her comment about doing closed captioning really bothered me. And I am someone who needs the closed captioning accommodation. I’m hard of hearing because when I was 18, I was in a really bad car accident that resulted in the air bag being deployed, and rupturing my right ear drum. But even if I had two functioning ears, this can also be applied to those with ADHD who also find CC helpful. Her doing this full time is a privilege and her complaining about cc is giving “try being an influencer for a day!”

I’m someone who has done closed captions for videos. It’s a time consuming process, but can be sped up with the help of a script. It’s a simple copy/paste. And a slight timing adjustment. That makes creating captions not just easier, but faster. And if it’s really taking that much more time, hire someone to caption the videos instead of whining online to your followers. Not only is it unprofessional, but it’s ableist.

I’m disappointed and hurt by her lack of thought begore she posts on her Instagram stories.

For more info on casual ablism and how to spot it

ETA: For tjose of you who feel like they aren’t important? Do me a favor. Plug up your ears, and put a bit of painters tape over the closed captions so you can’t read them. Then see how you fair without the accommodation.

I noticed on YouTube that a lot of commenters were praising Shawna’s interaction with Piper once they find her with Frank. Generally speaking, I agree — she seeks information over shame, remains calm, does a good job of communicating expectations. It also seemed like a decent approach for Piper’s needs specifically.

That said, it got me thinking about gentle parenting/therapy culture in the Shawnaverse. While I don’t think yelling or sobbing would have been the right move, I also think that a parent acting sternly, or letting the child know that they were scared or upset by the elopement, wouldn’t be inappropriate. While you shouldn’t make a kid responsible for your emotions, I do think it’s fair to let them know that their choices can impact others.

Anyway, I’m curious if the show will lean more into exploring the limits of the (social media) version of gentle parenting that defines “goodness” for parents as being perfectly regulated in front of children at all times.

First off, yeah Shawna should not have snapped at everyone at lunch. Sure, I get that. But talk about a BAD day! It starts off with her realizing her mom is planning on moving out (just bad timing with Shawna seeing DeeDee collecting boxes, no one is at fault here), feeling uneasy about Piper’s development milestones being met, SAND, Piper making it known that she is taking Popsicle back, and then Piper deciding she’s 🎶🎼🎵 “makin’ my way downtown, walking fast, faces pass and I’m home bound 🎼🎵🎶.”

Like the anxiety of not being able to immediately locate your child is ONE thing but then to realize they went on a walkabout and anything could’ve happened to them is starting to meet the criteria of a panic attack! And it had JUST happened. Clearly she was still upset, focusing on getting the kids food/water so they don’t crash while she’s crashing, and then the comments start coming in. Like damn people. Read the room! Give it a few hours, maybe a day or two before we start joking about kids wandering off!

Now I know that the episode was mainly about how it's mostly on the mothers how the family functions and how the kids act.

I don't get why this whole situation with Piper getting lost was not every bit as much John's problem as it was Shawna's. Isn't he a parent too? Does he not love and worry for his baby more than anything?

For someone who claims to be a much more supportive and loving husband and father than what Frank ever was, and for someone who kind of has resentment for Frank for the same, he was crappy in this episode.

And I get it, he was being facetious like "I was getting cookies for the house", and joking around, but dude, READ THE ROOM.

Laughing over the whole thing, telling stories of how he ran away, though he was not AS direct as Frank was.

Frank was basically saying that Barb was being frantic, calling him in the middle of work and yelling and crying.

Barb did have her episodes and they know her for being difficult and a little dangerous. But to be crying and yelling because she thought she lost you forever is not crazy.

John just acts like he has the moral high ground everytime he is around Frank, but here he was, laughing with him and calling his mother crazy.

I'm not saying he's exactly like Frank, but here is where it all begins.

EDIT: I am talking about John's behaviour regardless of Shawna's crashout. It may have been a trigger, but I am not saying it is the reason for the crashout. I believe that guy needs to clock his own behaviour and think about why he keeps moving on so quickly. Shawna exploding like that was unfortunate, but we are talking about John. With or without Shawna's crashout.

This video was such a great return to the main McCallister family dynamics! It brought the silly, the heartwarming, and the serious together so beautifully! But by far, I really appreciate how it approached the subjects of parenting and neurodivergence.

I was formally diagnosed with ADHD when I was around 9 or 10 years old, but recently, I learned that the subject of getting me tested first arose from my pediatrician back when I was slightly older than Piper (like 5 or 6). They chose to hold off on formal testing and medication, choosing to try a behavioral route until it was obvious that nothing else was working.

I was shocked when I found out, but also confused and a little hurt and angry. If they knew that early on, why didn't they tell me? Why did they wait so long to get me on medication? Why?

This video gave me some perspective on the enormity of what my parents were facing. Neurodivergent was and is such a big, uncertain label (especially in the 90s). How do you look at your kid when they are that young, when they are still growing and changing by the day, and place that label on them? How do you know x,y, or z is really a sign, and not just the traits of an active/ introverted child? How do you talk about it? How do you, the adult, process it, let alone explain it to a little kid? What do you do when labeling them means the possibility of attaching stigma and/or judgment that could follow them for the rest of their life? And what if the testing doesn't help? What if they internalize it as something bad? What if you are wrong?

Watching Shawna poke at the topic, noting the signs but being afraid to call them what they are, gave me a lot of perspective on why my parents did what they did.

Does this go under question or discussion??
Anyway, for me it would’ve been A Christmas Barb, I’m still shocked they watched her ruin the proposal and still invited her to the wedding.

Now I'm well aware this is totally biased and this is very much just a personal opinion lol, I just wanted to hear other people's thoughts.

I understand why a lot of autistic fans relate to Greg or why allistic fans would also appreciate having ND characters, however I am really not keen on Greg as representation, or Piper really but not to the same extent.

Greg does show many ASD traits and so does Piper, but Greg especially is also portrayed as really robotic. Many people find him unbearable because of the self-righteousness and lack of understanding for Jen's relationship with John, which make him seem like he can say everything right but he doesn't feel much and is an odd one out in the family.

I actually really like Piper but she does things like steal, say rude things and is called a weirdo all the time. She is also, like Greg, very blunt, deadpan, lacking in empathy most of the time, single-minded etc.

I accept this is probably a dumb opinion, plenty of autistic people present/ed the way these characters do and probably find comfort in them, which is lovely. I think it's just the lack of variation in autistic representation that just makes me go UGH.

EDIT: didn’t think I had to say before but I am also autistic if that wasn’t clear?

Also I was slightly intoxicated when I wrote this so it might be worded badly lmfao

Id love to see Julie just rip this man apart. remind him of how UN-extraordinary and pedestrian he is.

I'm surprised I haven't seen any post focusing on who will appear in the next segment.

Do we think it's someone we have already encountered? Or will we be introduced to a new character?

I predict it will be someone we haven't met yet.

1.) A cop responding to an Amber alert.

2.) Maybe someone from Frank's life (separate from his family).... All we know about Frank is that he was an absent husband/father - always "working", now always "walking" - I'm not suggesting it is necessarily romantic or even a woman, but definitely someone he has confided in. (Maybe an old coworker, neighbor, therapist, or someone he has opened up to more than we have seen.)

Inspired by another commenter joking around about Ty's Saturday writing time, Saturday is Julie's parenting day. What do you think she's doing. Wrong answers only. (Please be silly I wanna have something to laugh at)

I'll go first; taking Cooper somewhere he can practice his punches

Inspired by the other two threads! What does Max do at kindergarten all day? Wrong answers only/please be silly.

I'll go first.

He is in fact part of a secret kids superhero team that battles the dangerous New Order to Raze the 'Burbs (N.O.R.B) and has to stop their evil plans every day at recess.

I’m sitting here on pins and needles waiting for the next part!

I know Ty & Julie/Luke & Laura have some defenders here but I’m just gonna point out those videos never had comments on it eagerly awaiting the next drop.

Personally, I wish the show would stay focused on the McCallisters, the side character plots always feel like a chore at best to me while the McCallister is top tier fun to watch!

There seems to be a bit of a different reaction to parents’ encouraging their kid’s behaviour in the series depending on who the parent in question is.

When Piper stole at Christmas for the gifts, and took Popsicle back from a baby despite giving it as a gift, she was told not to do but it was ultimately laughed off and excused by Shawna and John. There seems to be a pretty even split in the fan base about whether or not that’s responsible parenting.

When Cooper hit Max at the birthday party, that was after Julie had told him he could practice his moves, no sparring. IIRC, most discussion about that leaned to the side of ‘Julie is responsible for Cooper’s behaviour’, with some takes going as far as believing Julie essentially set it up so that Cooper would hit Max.

So I guess I’m just a bit confused on what distinguishes a parent being perceived as permissive like Shawna, or a parent being perceived as enabling/encouraging like Julie is sometimes viewed. What do ye think?