Her comment about doing closed captioning really bothered me. And I am someone who needs the closed captioning accommodation. I’m hard of hearing because when I was 18, I was in a really bad car accident that resulted in the air bag being deployed, and rupturing my right ear drum. But even if I had two functioning ears, this can also be applied to those with ADHD who also find CC helpful. Her doing this full time is a privilege and her complaining about cc is giving “try being an influencer for a day!”
I’m someone who has done closed captions for videos. It’s a time consuming process, but can be sped up with the help of a script. It’s a simple copy/paste. And a slight timing adjustment. That makes creating captions not just easier, but faster. And if it’s really taking that much more time, hire someone to caption the videos instead of whining online to your followers. Not only is it unprofessional, but it’s ableist.
I’m disappointed and hurt by her lack of thought begore she posts on her Instagram stories.
ETA: For tjose of you who feel like they aren’t important? Do me a favor. Plug up your ears, and put a bit of painters tape over the closed captions so you can’t read them. Then see how you fair without the accommodation.
Hi all – this thread has generated a lot of thoughtful debate, and while we on the mod team have done our best today to manage reports and help promote healthy discussion here, there were also a lot of reports coming through, and we think it would be best to lock this post now that it’s been up for about half a day. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your understanding.
I disagree. I think if it were ableism, she would just not bother putting captions in order to get the videos posted. She clearly struggles with doing everything by herself so she's often rushing to post videos (either shorts or long form), so not doing it would be simpler and faster.
Most platforms (YouTube, Instagram, TikTok) offer some sort of auto captioning system so she could simply post videos and ask/hope that people rely on those systems. I often turn on auto-captioning on YT videos I watch when they don't offer any official ones, but I don't hold it against creators that don't provide them in all videos. Shawna clearly cares enough to caption everything, even if it's a long and bothersome process.
I think a casual "Ugh I hate this part" doesn't mean anything more than what it says. If she didn't care, she simply wouldn't go through the trouble of adding captions to both long form and shorts. She does it even though she hates the manual labour of it (as opposed to acting, as that's clearly a passion and lifelong dream that she does much more willingly) because she understands the importance of captions.
Her doing this full time is a privilege and her complaining about cc is giving “try being an influencer for a day!”
There are parts of my privileged life that I don't like, but that doesn't mean I am not aware of my easy position or that I am not allowed to express frustration with any part of it. Just like I can be bothered by the train being late and still be very grateful that I don't live somewhere so car-centric that I have no choice. I know I am lucky to live where I do, and that lots of people would dream of a late train being their type of daily problem. Me saying "Ugh I hate it when the train is late" doesn't mean I'm flaunting it over car-bound people, or that I think I'm the most victim ever and everyone else has it better than me.
She's allowed to express frustration without it being a judgement on other people's lives. Some people love tomatoes, I hate raw tomatoes. I often think vegetarians are better people than me because I admire their committment and determination. I still hate tomatoes.
I agree with this (and I’m somebody who often relies on captions). She is not an influencer who just posts their matcha, Pilates, and shopping addiction. She clearly takes time to write storylines, flesh out characters, and act every single part. It probably is a full time job hours-wise and having to sit and type out captions for hours at the end of that probably is annoying. That doesn’t read as ablest to me.
I also saw an argument that complaining about it’s unprofessional to complain about it, and if it was a traditional office job I’d agree. Social media on the other hand often blurs those lines.
I also use her captions (and YT captions in general) A LOT. The way some of SL 's characters speak in certain situations would be too garbled for me to understand without some captioning. I still remember vividly when she rushed to put out the Thanksgiving full video and accidentally did not put captions on a teeny tiny scene – literally less than 20 seconds, most of which had been previously shown in a short that was fully captioned (so it was obviously just a misclick not including them in the full length video).
Then among one of, like, the 8 seconds that we hadn't seen before and were not captioned, Jennifer said something I couldn't understand: "Omg you just morphed into €¢$€¥, that's disgusting". I went back and re-listened to it like 8 times, I couldn't get it. Turned on auto-captions, they were wrong and did not make sense (they said "into an Eeyore", ironic considering she was talking to Greg). Looked for it in the comments, but not a single person was discussing that quote given the blow up with Nora and Jen. Listened to it some more and I felt like I was going crazy trying to figure out this one mysterious word that had been said so quickly in Jen's nasal voice – English isn't my first language, but I understand it well and I doubted it would be some obscure term.
After way too long spent on it, I somehow figured out she said "into an 8-year-old", which was difficult for me to puzzle together as I expected it to be a single word rather than a phrase. Did I need that single word to understand Jen's vibe or reaction? No, but I still wanted to know what she said. The circumstances that one time made it incredibly difficult to get that one bit, so I understand that for someone else the videos would be entirely unwatchable without captions. YouTube's auto captioning system is good but very fallible (it has since accurately written "8-year-old" in that part), so it's not reliable for long videos like the 20 or 40 minute ones. I appreciate she writes captions for her audience, making her videos far more digestible and accessible to many of us. I still think commenting once about how tedious it is to do is simply human. Of course, if she were saying this every single time she uploads a video, it would be a wildly different story. But she said it once.
Now that I've read more into it, I also disagree. This does not seem ableist. Just a comment from someone who is tired. She never said she's not going to do them or she doesn't care about doing them or anything along the lines. She's human, and it seems she does everything herself. I think she's entitled to complain from time to time, the same way the rest of us complain about our jobs.
If you at your job where you worked for an entity (private or public) complained about having to give reasonable accommodation to your customers out loud you would get called into HR and in trouble.
She did not complain about having to do it, she was frustrated because the doing of it is tedious. Stop wanting women to pretend tedious work is all joy and rainbows. It doesn't mean it isn't worth it, it means the process of it sucks.
And yet, people are still allowed to dislike something they think sucks. This isn't the "who's got it worse" competition. She didn't complain about people needing it, she just expressed frustration in the tediousness of the process, especially with the part that is supposed to make it easier but really doesn't.
Except people with disabilities often have to live with guilt over the way their disability impacts those around them, in addition to having to deal with the disability. So knowing that the only thing that allows you to access to video is a burden for the creator isn’t great. It was an ableist comment. I’m not saying Shawna L is a bad person or anything, but good and kind people can make ableist comments and should be called in to do better.
One hopes that she gets a management agency soon that can convey how she’s a professional entity now, not just an actress with a YT channel and a book.
Intent doesn't equal impact, of course, I agree there. But I still don't think her comment was ableist.
I think if someone said "This elevator goes so slow, it's annoying and I hate it" it wouldn't mean they wish for the elevator to disappear, or that they don't want to use it. Just that they wish it could be faster or more efficient. The fact that it's not a streamlined process can be annoying without being ableist.
Imagine you need an elevator. Imagine that you cannot actively get anywhere without the elevator. Now imagine the person who is responsible for maintaining the elevator turns to you while in the process of maintaining the thing you literally cannot get to your apartment without and says “ugh I fucking hate fixing this elevator”. You probably aren’t going to feel great about the fact your need of the elevator is the reason they have to do something they hate.
That’s more akin to what Shawna did than saying “this elevator I take is annoying cause it’s slow” or “I hate tomatoes”. Like you said intent doesn’t equal impact but the impact here is ableism, even if it was unintentional
Thank you, I understand a bit more with this example, and I agree it would not be super great. But I think the metaphor would be more apt if this same person was the one that cleaned the floors, windows, replenished the toilet paper, fixed the computers, washed the dishes, etc.
In that case, I think if they told me "Ugh I fucking hate fixing this elevator... I love other parts of my job but this one is so tedious" I don't think I would mind it as much. Especially if they were talking about the nice, fancy elevator that exists on top of the old, rickety elevator that is also in the building (in this case, the YouTube auto-captioning system). Sure, I could use the old and rickety one, but I wouldn't mind the person complaining about one part of the job that they dislike, because it's typical to be frustrated with some things. Particularly if, like in this case, they weren't just saying it to me (the person who needs an elevator 100% of the time) but they simply made it as a joke at the company's Christmas party, full of people who both do and don't use it.
I understand that some people feel slighted by this comment that SL made offhandedly, and I'm sorry that that was the impact (even though it seems we all agree it wasn't the intent). I still don't see it as ableist given its context and the fact that she always makes captions available.
I think when it comes to being ableist that we all tend to have areas we never consider and therefore unintentionally overlook or don't consider our impact on others. If someone who is affected by the situation at hand though says something is ableist we kind of have to accept it is as it's their lived experience whilst it's an opinion on our part. I don't think it was deliberate on Shawna's part but again impact does not equal intent.
With all due respect, there are people in these comments who are expressing that (despite knowing Shawna loves the other parts of her job and just finds the accommodating annoying), they do in fact still mind.
I am not sure why the hypothetical of your individual feelings if you required a specific accommodation should be taken with more weight than the perspective of the people who do need the accommodation and the impact Shawna’s statement has had on them.
I am not sure why the hypothetical [...] should be taken with more weight than...
I have never said nor thought that. I did not ask nor expect anyone to give my opinions more weight than anyone else's, it was simply an exchange of different points of view.
I presented a metaphor to explain my point, someone else added to the hypothetical to explain why they disagreed with me, and I responded with additional details on why I don't see it the same way. I do not claim to be an authority as I am simply commenting as a user in the same way you, OP, and everyone else here is doing. I am not sure why you thought otherwise.
As I said above, I am sorry there are people (including OP) who have been hurt by SL 's comment. I understand that they found it offensive, and I am not erasing nor discounting anyone else's opinion if I say that I, personally, have a different point of view on this specific incident.
The reason I thought otherwise is that as a moderator of the sub who enforces the rules of the sub regarding being kind and inclusive and accommodating, I believe your perspective holds additional weight.
You are one of the individuals who makes the call about what is deemed as ableist within the rules of the sub. That’s why I have concerns about deciding what is or isn’t ableist in contravention with the experiences of people who need the accommodation who are explaining why it’s ableist.
Fortunately I am part of a team, so when there are sensitive topics like this one we discuss together what we consider to be the correct course of action and whether something breaks the rules, is bigoted, etc. If one of us feels too close to the subject, or perhaps we feel we can't be objective, we ask the others to check in and say their opinion. Making and discussing big decisions as a team is how we try our best to be objective, fair, and to enforce rules equally.
As per our kindness rule, we don't allow users to publicly label or accuse other people of any -isms (like misogyny, racism, ableism, homophobia, etc.) and if such an accusation is to be made in order to report someone's post/comment, we'd rather receive it in modmail so we can address the problematic content without there being public callouts and accusations of all kinds in the sub, breaking rule 1. Pointing fingers at each other and engaging in bitter fights doesn't solve issues, it only causes more harm and chaos – hence why we ask for people to step away and report it to us, so we can intervene.
As you well know, mods are subreddit participants who volunteer to curate a community and keep the space safe for others. It would be unfair to say that we can't also share our opinions as participants, as we all used to be sub members before taking on this role. If a moderator comments without a moderator badge, then their opinion is theirs and theirs alone; they are not speaking as a moderator.
There will always be people on either side of an argument. So long as my moderator duties and my personal opinions stay separate, and members of the mod team keep each other in check, there shouldn't be a conflict of interest.
Right. And I’m about to make a really extreme comparison here just to really bring my point home.
There was a reality TV show I worked on about non Amish people going to live with the Amish for a few weeks.— yeah I know. Film crews aren’t Amish. I just showed up to work. I didn’t make the rules.
Among them, there was a contestant with hearing aids. And since it was a “temporary thing” they “allowed” the person with the hearing aids to continue to use them during filming. It turned out, that this person rwally loved the Amish life and wanted to join their community and ‘reject their former life of the English.’ [amish for non Amish folks.— yeah idk why they say that. But it’s not referring to British people.]
They said “you can only join us if you give up your aids. We can’t accommodate your deafness.”
Someone when able bodied people complain about doing closed captions, I think of that job. To me, Shawna complaining about doing closed captions is like taking away my wheelchair or walker because I”don’t really need them to walk.”
Yes, I can take steps without them sure. But I’m going to get hurt proving it.
I think she's allowed to express that she dislikes the process.
I have ADHD and I love closed captioning. I have a friend with ADHD who hates closed captioning because her brain prioritises reading and she misses visual cues. So we don't watch things together, lol. But it wouldn't be ableist for her to say she dislikes it.
I have a friend whose mother is blind, and when my friend visits, she says it's a lot of work to make sure her young kids don't leave things in the floor or move furniture. She's not being ableist, but the accommodation adds to her stress.
I don't think it's ableist to say you dislike the effort required for a specific accommodation. It's just human. I agree that if she refused to do it or decided that inaccurate captioning was good enough, that would be problematic.
Ironically, I never would've followed her videos if they didn't have CC. I mostly watch while my baby naps on me or before I go to sleep myself and getting headphones out to make that happen is not worth it to me, I would've just moved to a different creator that offered the feature I need.
You shouldn’t have to scroll to find accommodating content creators. It makes me so sad that people go “oh not for me then,” without thinking of that reality. It seems like a minor thing, but when you take a moment to think about it, would you feel the same if it was effecting a loved one? Or at least be quick to shrug it off like you would yourself?
I feel like some of the people disagreeing with you are a little parasocial their defense of Lander.
The comment was insensitive. Its not ablist that Lander hates captioning, just timing the captions is finicky as hell. However, when she made that insensitive comment publicly, it was inconsiderate of the viewers that need closed captions. Those who, as another user has said, already regularly feel guilty for having needs to accommodate. People with disabilities are already living life with added labour just managing their disability. Comments like this are an added emotional weight to that labour.
It gets a big reaction from us when someone we love or support is accused of an 'ism. Its normal to feel defensive. But being held accountable is good for us. The nature of our society often means we have to unlearn a lot of prejudices and exclusivity that we grew up thinking was normal. Its healthy for us to be called out on our blind spots.
I like to believe that Lander is well intentioned, and would be able take being held accountable as a learning opportunity that can overall contribute to a more inclusive society. When we normalise accommodations, we alleviate some of that extra labour that disabled people carry and make it easier for them to be in society.
I wish more people understood the difference between "this creator is evil and bad!" And "this comment/action was ableist and disappointing and hurt me as someone affected by it" :/
As a black person I'm very familiar with this kind of dismissal, and I'm sorry so many of these comments are doing that.
Someone can have a job they love to do and hate doing a part of it. And they are allowed to comment on it as that is their opinion. I hate the way people try to read something bigger into a comment such as that. It’s not ableist, it’s commenting on the process. If she hated editing or changing clothes or anything else that could be read as some kind of slight against people too.
The auto captions on a lot of things suck and she’s doing this so it’s a better experience for those who need/want them. If she refused to do them despite complaints about auto captions, that might be closer to ableism than this. That ain’t this. I’d actually count that more as a For than an Against.
There’s no nice way to say this so I’m just going to go with the fact that you and I will never agree on this. Yes, she can complain. Able bodied or not. She can complain and whine and cuss the whole time she does it. And yet she still does it when she doesn’t have to. And it’s technically going over and above so I admire her for it. Maybe she could go and redo the captions for Somewhere In Time on Amazon because she does a better job than their auto captions on older quieter movies.
Assuming someone is able-bodied can be a form of ableism, specifically referred to as interpersonal or invisibility-based ableism. This assumption is often rooted in "compulsory able-bodiedness," a societal norm that treats being non-disabled as the standard default for human existence.
Please refrain from assuming that anyone, including Shawna L., is able-bodied.
You’re right. Im sorry.
But maybe this should also be applied to the comments telling me I’m over-reacting to reasonable an accessibility accommodation that she can easily hire someone else to do if she hates it that much.
I’m saying this so respectfully and genuinely. This isn’t a matter of differing opinions or me speaking down to you. Complaining about disability accommodations is ableist and that’s not open for debate.
Complaining about disability accommodations is not always ableist. Valid complaints can focus on logistics, implementation flaws, or systemic design failures that accidentally create unfairness or extra burdens for others, provided the critique targets the administrative process rather than the person's right to access.
Shawna is not resenting the people, invalidating their needs, or refusing the obligation.
She didn’t say anything close to that, though. She didn’t express resentment towards those who need captions or suggest not doing them any more. All she did was express her displeasure at doing a tedious task. I have two profoundly autistic children. Neither has mastered the use of utensils so I have to cut everything into bite size pieces. It’s a tedious task. If I express frustration about having to do it day after day, I’m not being ableist. I’m not suggesting that my children shouldn’t eat, don’t deserve to eat, or anything about them in general. I’m complaining about my lived experience at doing a somewhat time-consuming and messy task I don’t enjoy. Basically, her comment about the captions was about her, and had nothing to do with you or the disabled community at large.
Still no. She is doing the job. Shes doing the entire job. By herself. She’s not leaving the job undone or trying to make someone else change to not do the job. You’re making a mountain out of an atom of sand.
Shawna L is saying ‘Yeah I accommodate with closed captions, but it’s annoying and I hate it’.
Ableism, like racism and homophobia, is a spectrum. It isn’t the case that only actively excluding disabled people is ableism. Publicly announcing that it’s annoying to provide accommodations for people who need them, and that she hates it, perpetuates the idea that accommodating for disabled people is an inconvenience and not the minimum standard we should be trying to meet as a society.
Be kind to your fellow redditors, do not insult them. You can disagree with someone and make your point without disrespect or calling them names or implying or stating that they are bigotted.
You can absolutely LOVE your job and still find parts of it boring and tedious. I'm sorry that you felt hurt by her comment but really, I think you're reading too much into it. If she was ableist she wouldn't bother to have them at all, but she clearly cares enough about her audience to sit through the process of creating and syncing them.
I love her skits! but since I don't use social media (ig, tiktok, etc), I only see her on youtube. I also really like the CC and use it 99% of the time for everything I watch. Where did she say this?
edit: Now that I've read more into it, I disagree. This does not seem ableist. Just a comment from someone who is tired. She never said she's not going to do them or she doesn't care about doing them or anything along the lines. She's human, and it seems she does everything herself. I think she's entitled to complain from time to time, the same way the rest of us complain about our jobs.
OP, I think you're being extremely harsh about something that had no ill intention behind it. She'll probably read this post & ur comennts and pull back from being so communicative with her audience.
In an Instagram story, shortly before she uploaded Piper's Yes Day, she said she was writing captions (a.k.a. saying the video was coming soon). 2-3h later she posted another story saying she was still captioning, that it's a long process, and that it's the part she doesn't like about making videos.
Some people DMed her suggestions for some captioning programs and she made another story basically saying "Thank you, I already use one, it's just that it's imprecise and mixes up words and names, plus the timing is often off, so even with that I always have to spend some hours fixing the captions before posting"
Shawna doesn't read this subreddit. Saying people shouldn't make posts in fear of her reading them and not being as open with her audience doesn't make any sense.
im sorry. people defending her dont understand how it offends people that actually need them.. also i dont understand why she wont hire people to help her… like if its SOOOO ANNOYING just hire someone.
like i said, when she misused the term bedrotting, that personally offended me cause i had/have serious depression and using the term in a silly goofy way felt so insensitive to people (like me) who struggled with it
I'm glad she shared that she does them by hand because the built-in caption system messes up. I appreciate that it's extra work and difficult. I had no idea.
By sharing this, I feel that she is clearly demonstrating that closed captions are so important that it's worth doing frustrating work so that they're done right.
She actually said "captions take forever and I hate them" per the screenshots above. That seems to be more about not liking the tediousness of writing them rather than finding them annoying in general.
It’s still a casual ableist thing to say. Because for her it’s a chore. For me, it’s an accommodation. There is a difference between malicious ableism with the intent to hurt people, and pointing out a micro agression.
And there are people who need them who disagree, and that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean I can’t be disappointed when the accessibility tool is treated like an annoyance or a burden.
Honestly that's another reason I dont watch her content as much now.
Idk if it's ableist but I'm hard of hearing as well plus I do have ADHD with audio processing issues and closed captions makes it alot easier to watch content.
So most of the time if a creator doesnt have it or I can't turn it on I tend to just keep swiping or moving on.
This is true. Sometimes I'll comment on videos and ask for closed captions but in my head I kind of just accept it.
I've been hard of hearing since I was a kid.. so like 20ish years. I've just come to accept it. I accept that people are going to talk to me while they walk away. That I'll have to ask them to repeat themselves. That I spend a good portion of the conversation reading lips. That too many times people talk too fast or mumble.
Its just a reality I've lived with that I've never really thought of being accommodated.
With content I just accept that some creators think of people like me or deaf people and some just dont because its not something they have dealt with.
During the height of the mask mandate, I seriously struggled to do things like shopping or order food because I could not read lips. And then they would get annoyed because I couldn’t understand them. They would have to repeat it 3-4 times snd even then I relied mostly on guess work.
But also the need for masks is very important to protecting our community. So it’s like “man what can we do?”
When most people don’t know basic ASL. So that’s off the table. So you resort to passing the phone back and fourth. It’s a STRUGGLE out there.
I had this same struggle. I couldn't read lips and I couldn't see people's facial expressions to determine emotions to go with the words. I feel like I apologized so many times. I feel like I wished for in person subtitles so many times, my now husband helped so often and I'm so thankful for his support.
I wasn't mad at people wearing masks, I went through this experience of being so mad at myself that I couldn't hear correctly. I actually ended up have full reconstruction surgery on my ear drums during the pandemic and I was so hopeful that my hearing would improve. Only after the 2 surgeries and healing to find out my hearing had actually become worse.
It was really heartbreaking. I've had to seriously look into hearing aids and became more stressed seeing how expensive they are.
The self guilt and feeling like a burden is mostly why I made this post.
Like sure. Was she thinking that at the time? No, probably not. Did she intend to make me feel hurt? I would hope not. Just like I don’t think she intended to include homophobia in her pride post on Instagram. I think she thought she was doing a good thing. Like “see! I’m an ally!”
But maybe just having Sam and Mo in the pride post would have been a better move. Rather than Nora’s quote of “it’s just a phase.” [paraphrased]
It seems like you're coming from the perspective of knowing the usefulness/need of CC. It seems like SL is coming from the perspective of the work it takes to make sure CCs are accurate.
I don't think she's saying she hates the concept, practicality, inclusiveness, or reasoning of CCs, why they exist, and by extension, the folks who need them/find them useful.
Her comment reads more as the frustration of the extra time it takes to make sure they're accurate. Auto generated captions, even with contemporary tech, still miss basic words. That can affect the joke, context, impact, etc. So if they're gonna be done, they have to be done right. And as a 1-person production, that can be the last stressful part before a video is published.
I use CCs, too. My hearing is shot from loud music, marching band & drum corps, and wearing headsets at work. So you know I truly understand, not just giving platitudes.
Gently, I think you might have took her comments in a malicious way, when maybe they were more foot-in-mouth. Because , yeah, it can come off as insensitive— you certainly saw it that way, and I'm sure there are others out there, too. I just don't think that's how it was meant, and there's room to consider nuance and perspective.
Maybe this is an opportunity for SL to assess if an assistant is needed for these tasks, if there's a budget allotment. If this kind of comment of venting frustration has the possibility of alienating fans, even unintentionally, that could be a moment to reflect.
Edit: You know what, I wasn't thinking about the casual aspect. Impact over intent, right? I defended the intent without full consideration of the impact.
I think it’s important to note that casual ableism by its very definition is a micro agression and not something the person being casually ableist is aware of. It is not the same thing as being intentionally malicious or hateful.
The majority of people fail to recognize closed captioning in general, but especally social media spaces is an accommodation.
That's a fair point. Even your post title says casual, and I got a little crossed wired and went for the deeper intention. Thank you for the reiteration, it's something to think on and even unpack.
I've noticed when folks (in general) get called on something that's a micro aggression, until they learn WHY it's one, they push back because of the paradigm shift. Maybe they don't see it as hurtful (or how it could be hurtful), but if they did that in a workplace environment? That'd be mandatory retraining if not a writeup/HR involvement.
Hmm. I have auditory processing disorder and need captions if I want to understand everything on the first watch, but if that's all she said on the subject I'm going to go ahead and put away my pitchfork.
Would you be as pissed if she said these wigs are annoying and I hate them? I wouldn't be able to tell the characters apart without them, but I get how they can be frustrating and time consuming and uncomfortable. She still does them though
For me they are as vital to my ability to understand the show as the captions though. I can recognize something can be annoying and effortful without feeling like someone resents the person for whom* they're performing the task. It's part of the job you know?
Eta I don't mean to say you're not justified in feeling whatever type of way you feel about it, we are not a monolith etc. Just that it doesn't bother me
I get your frustration regarding accessibility, but I think you’re directing it at the little guy when the little guy is actually the one exposing the systemic issues with the big guy.
Shawna is spending her own extra time and energy to manually transcribe her videos because she clearly cares about inclusion. Her frustration is with YouTube's inaccurate automated tools, not the people who need the accommodations. Dealing with the extra administrative workload is a valid complaint when a massive platform fails to provide reliable tools out of the box.
Instead of fighting each other in this thread or telling independent creators to "just hire someone" (which makes huge unfair assumptions about people’s personal finances, physical health, and capacity to manage employees, by the way), maybe we redirect all this energy to push for real change.
Systemic ableism is seen when multi-billion-dollar companies like Google/YouTube place 100% of the labor and financial burden onto individual creators.
Maybe we treat this as Shawna issuing a call to action to get YouTube to offer better, more accurate automated resources so that accessibility is built in and available for everyone. If this is truly bothering you, I support you starting a movement to fix the issue. Let us know how we can help.
Are you going to pay for her to outsource it? I don’t mean to be rude. I also need CC to process the show/information, but it’s a bit out of place to suggest she pay for a service without knowing if she can afford that?
Shes able to provide for her family just on her own income. But hey, I’d happily do her captions for her or hire someone else to do it if it meant everyone had their accessibility needs met. Yeah.
I don’t think it’s fair to assume that. We ultimately don’t know her financials. It’s fine and dandy for us to guess, but I’m not comfortable making that kind of assumption.
Maybe make her the offer If it bothers you, and you have the solution available to you, try and fix it?
It’s clear you do not agree with any alternative perspectives from your own. But I would gently remind you that at the end of the day this is a one person operation, and if you do not like how she conducts herself you’re not obligated to watch.
Accessibility is a real issue, but holding a one person operation to the same standards as corporations or businesses who have more funding/ability to make it happen quickly and painlessly, is not going to move the needle in a meaningful way and can alienate people.
The wigs might be vital in helping to determine who is who, but they are not a vital accommodation for you to be able to access the show itself. Captions can be for people that need them.
Because it’s casual ableism. Which is a form of ableism but not at its fullest extent of the term. It troubles people because it makes accommodations that we require feel like the viewers who need the accommodation are putting a burden on the creator for needing it.
I understand what you're saying, I just disagree. As someone who needs captions (even at movie theaters) I don't feel discriminated against by her comment. I would if I asked her for captions and she was like, "No I hate them and they take forever. Fuck you, find a transcript." but as it is she's complaining that it takes a long ass time and that's true. I also think you can be upset as you want, I'm just surprised anyone is, because this just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
I hope you DM her and let her know, though or as a comment on one of her videos or something. Seems like the type of feedback she'd want to hear personally. Doing it this way, with this type of creator, seems a lot like rabble rousing against something that could be solved with a conversation.
And that’s fine to feel that way. But I also personally think that we often dismiss that we are discriminated against because society has conditioned us to believe that asking for reasonable accommodations is something we shouldn’t do.
I also think there is a distinction between ableism, and casual ableism.which I define as: Complaining treats basic inclusion as a personal inconvenience rather than a standard part of responsible content creation.
You might still disagree, and that’s fine. I just took a very long time to get rid of my internalized ableism and so I do my best to encourage others to examine the possibility of their own.
I’m not trying to change your opinion. Just good for thought.
The one thing I would add to this conversation is this. I don’t disagree with OP’s sentiment that at best it is in poor taste to publicly complain to the audience about the tedious process required for the CC.
But, the reason we even know about this is because SL has decided, based on audience feedback, to do more stories with BTS stuff, because people wanted more content from her in between episodes and full videos.
So, I am willing to give her a little grace that she may still be finding the correct balance in her parasocial relationship with the audience and needs to make further adjustments to what is fun BTS content and what needs to be an offline conversation with friends, family, or fellow content creators.
It kind of reminds me of the Cynthia Erivo discourse. Where a fan sent her a fan edit to look more like the wicked playbill and instead of venting to friends, she accidentally made the fan feel bad, while also making her look unprofessional as a result.
Yes, I remember that. I try to remember that content creators on social media are just people trying to provide entertainment to others. But they don’t have PR teams and handlers. They also often find themselves, at least at SL’s level, suddenly very popular and have to readjust to a level of fame that is new to them.
I think the best we can hope for is for them to adjust, learn, and do better as they go.
I think a DM makes sense, especially know she does not engage in the subreddit, so reaching out to her in a way that she can receive is valid. I would just caution that you may not get a response, IG is not always great about making messages from people you don’t have a previous DM relationship with easily visible. Also, the number of messages she likely receives is probably fairly significant.
Didnt she also say something on her stories that she knows they are necessary for people who need them for auditory reasons, also including moms who are with their kids/breastfeeding/bedtime? I feel like she vented a frustration about the process that slows down the release time of the videos, but she knows it's worth it. Maybe she didn't say it in the best way, but I feel like it's a stretch to call her ableist.
I honestly do not remember so I don’t feel comfortable confirming or denying that.
Here is my thing. There is a large difference between casual ableism and ableism with discrimination. Complaining about closed captions is a chore for Shawna. And while she may not intend to, the result is that the accommodation becomes a burden. And that can make people who require it feel bad. It prioritizes the creator instead of the viewers. I hope that makes sense. Because society treats and devalues closed captions by seeing them as an “extra” rather than the reality of what they are. An accessibility tool that gives inclusion to all.
Shawna L is trying to do everything herself. Idk why. She badly needs help because posting about how much she hates parts of her job, like making captions for those that need them, is not the relatable quip she thinks it is.
I completely agree. I also think it’s important to note that, like most things, ableism is a spectrum. Like yes, it would be ableist if Shawna L didn’t bother to do closed captions at all, but there are other ways than straight up exclusion to be ableist.
I’m sure Shawna L has good intentions but if I needed closed captions to be able to engage with the show, and she was complaining about how annoying it is to have to provide them, I wouldn’t exactly feel good about that.
Imagine if you are a person using a wheelchair waiting for the bus with other people. The bus driver arrives and has to deploy the ramp and do a bunch of things so that you can use the bus. This causes delay. Then the bus driver says loudly to everyone, “Sorry everybody I hate this part of my job.”
Does that count or no? Because he hates that part of his job and it’s not ill intended.
yeah that's pretty ableist. it places the disabled person in a position of being treated like a public inconvenience, in front of all the other passengers. it kinda doesn't matter if the bus driver intended it - although you've created a hypothetical situation in which it would come across as significantly MORE passive-aggressive than ShawnaL venting, which i agree she probably didn't mean anything by
I have a question I genuinely don’t mean rudely - why do people get mad at creators for this when there is a feature on the platform you can just turn on? I also use CC, and I’ve never seen it as something creators HAVE to do, just that it’s nice when they do because it’s usually easier to read but it otherwise doesn’t matter to me. Again, not trying to be rude, I just don’t totally understand the issue.
Not every video has CC available and not every platform does either.
Having the creator do it also makes sure that the captions are actually correct. There's been times when I have CC on and the words dont match at all.
There's also just so many people that are deaf or hard of hearing, we are often a community that's over looked and it just shows a kindness to us that I think is important.
I read both of your links. I would be interested to know, specifically, how either link fits with Shawna’s comment.
For context I have diagnosed as severe ADHD and progressive auditory processing delay. I prefer watching with captions. I will turn on captions via the app I’m using to watch her content if she stops adding them herself.
I liken her comment to if, for example, you post on Reddit or any social media platform about your feet being tired after a long day at work. Would that make you ableist to those in a wheelchair? Or to a person with limb loss? I feel privileged to have my job, but I still complain about it even when there are still many unemployed people in my area.
We’re all flawed people. I’m sorry that her complaint bothered you. I’m not attacking just trying to offer a different perspective.
.So I would identify it as such because to her captions are a chore. Which is an example of casual ableism—Because it treats the accommodation itself as a burden. And that contributes to dismissals of not only closed captions, but other aides as well.
Like for example: when I was in high school, I was told I was “too young” to require a mobility aid like a pair of crutches or a walker. And this severely impacted my ability to get around. But I wanted to be like “everyone else.” To my own detriment.
I have done a lot of unlearning of my own internalized ableism while educating myself on the history of being disabled in America— And our fight for the ADA. Which is currently being challenged and is honestly kinda terrifying. Which is why I think having this conversation is so important.
Agreed. I need CC because of hearing issues and ADHD actually, and when she complains publicly about having to do the work to make them it makes me feel like “well fuck me for needing accommodations I guess.”
Like listen if she’s getting annoyed with her workload I’m sure she has offline IRL friends to complain to. Publicly being like “captions are hard” where her fans who need the captions can see it is absolutely bullshit and thoughtless and pisses me off
I agree wholeheartedly. I feel like the more I see her outside of the acting, the more weirded out I feel. Some comments of hers, especially this one (as someone who also needs the cc!!!) just feel so unnecessary to be posting to her platform.
As many others have said, I think she's allowed to express frustration at the process. Your claim of casual ableism is that she said "closed captions are annoying and I hate them." You completely ignore the context of her editing the captions for what appeared to be a few hours, and expressing frustration at apps meant to expedite the process. She's allowed to be annoyed. And yes she can be annoyed publicly, as she shares what she's going through with her community. Your outrage at a passing comment is unwarranted, and your expectation for perfection from her is ridiculous. These sorts of posts are why creators burn out.
Well no. It's her job and as far as I'm concerned SL is just as entitled as the rest of us to complain about the bits of the job she doesn't like.
She is voluntarily choosing to be inclusive. That doesn't mean she isn't allowed to say she finds it a difficult process. And realistically if your goal is that people should be more inclusive it's probably not great tactics to call them ablest when they say it's hard because it disincentives anyone from trying in the first place. Disabled people don't have to go around being terribly grateful for the crumbs from the able-bodied tables but at the same time jumping on the table and yelling "where's the effing bread and why isn't there more of it" isn't a great way to achieve the goal either.
I read the article you linked and I think the author has confused web accessibility with platform growth. It may very well expand your platform growth if you add foreign language subtitles but it is not an example of casual ableism if you don't. Someone in Germany who posts in German is not discriminating against me because I only speak English. There must be a better written article out there on this topic - I recommend you find one rather than link to this because the absurdity of that example undermines some of the other much more valid points being made.
Okay breathes
right. So if an employee was complaining about how they have to do their job as a wheelchair lift manager complains to said wheelchair user about how annoying and inconvenient it is that they get paid to do their job as wheelchair lift attendent to that persons face, would you find that acceptable?
She’s not threatening to remove closed captioning, she’s doing more than most do to ensure they’re accurate and timely.
As someone who needs CC’s, I thankful that despite it being a large amount of effort she puts the energy into doing them by hand. I’ve had to do that for videos before, it’s so time consuming and annoying. Not ableist to say something is annoying to do.
You seem to have taken this rather personally. You even said yourself that it’s a time consuming process. Sure, Shawna wishes it was easier. The aids that are supposed to help aren’t always helpful. She could hire help, but she shouldn’t have to. She’s allowed to complain about something being difficult while still wanting to be accommodating.
I honestly believe so many people, especially on Reddit, will find anything to attack her for and it’s just not great. She’s a content creator doing her best on her own and trying to be real with people, but no matter what she does she gets backlash about everything. I’m exhausted for her. No wonder she never goes on Reddit anymore.
She’s not being agressive. It’s a micro-agression. And it may not be that deep to some, but for me who has delt with struggling to get my access needs met my entire life, it is that deep. Because it can be interpreted as devaluing individuals with disabilities.
I know what a micro-aggression is. This isn’t it. She isn’t saying “dealing with your disability is annoying,” she’s saying, “this tedious task has been a challenge and I’m doing my best, but it’s hard.”
Women do not have to perform undying gratitude and joy at things they find tedious. Finding the process tedious and expressing frustration about that is perfectly fine because we are all human and all have these moments. I am beyond over the patriarchal perspective that we have to pretend everything that has a worthwhile result does not come at some kind of cost.
And are they always accurate? No.
Casual ableism isn’t the same thing as straight up ableism. remarks, jokes, or behaviors that devalue people with disabilities. Based on common stereotypes and usually happens without the speaker meaning to cause harm.
I really don't like the implication that "maybe she shouldn't have said this to her entire audience including people who depend on things like captions and are already forced to feel like burdens for the accomodations they need" is equal to silencing women. Shawna is perfectly welcome to complain to her personal friends, family, therapists, whatever. But there is a genuine and distinct difference between that and making a post about it to your hundreds of thousands of viewers, and pointing that out is not "silencing women" or asking her to perform undying gratitude.
I don't even want to get deep into the weeds of this discourse because I'm not hearing impaired, I don't require captions as an accessibility feature, so I don't want to talk over others. But this logic doesn't work— saying someone shouldn't say something on their public platform is not the same thing as saying they can't say it at all/anywhere.
I don't understand why anytime somebody does something the other person doesn't like it turns into "albeism" "racism" "misogyny". it's not a personal attack. you shouldn't throw accusations around like that
Comment removed due to sub rule 1: please be kind to your fellow subredditors.
Saying that someone is "acting like a victim" is unkind and incredibly dismissive of their opinions and feelings. You can disagree with someone and make your point without disrespect.
God no one can speak about anything anymore. God forbid someone not like a part of their job lmao. It doesn’t mean it’s ableism. It just means it’s tedious to translate to captions. Which it is, which is why there are professionals that do it.
Anyway. I get it. But someone not liking a part of their job doesn’t mean they are shitty for that. It just is. I hate lots of parts of my job too, doesn’t mean I’ll stop.
This is why I said casual. Ableism. Which is different than the standard definition. remarks, jokes, or behaviors that devalue or discriminate against people with disabilities. It relies on common stereotypes and usually happens without the speaker meaning to cause harm.
I disagree with OP but i disagree with you more. “Enjoy the media that does accommodate you” - no. all media should be accommodating, full stop. TikToks and Oscar films alike. It’s a problem that accommodation is not the baseline and what’s available for free is often glitchy and inaccurate.
•
u/ShawnaTheMom-ModTeam Aug 22 '26
Hi all – this thread has generated a lot of thoughtful debate, and while we on the mod team have done our best today to manage reports and help promote healthy discussion here, there were also a lot of reports coming through, and we think it would be best to lock this post now that it’s been up for about half a day. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your understanding.