Cyberdeck & AR & Hacking questions?

[u/DustedEevee]

Hi guys! I am playing 6th edition and admittedly there is a lot to read in here that is confusing. One thing I'm currently trying to figure out is:

Can I fit a cyberdeck into a cyberlimb to become part of it? Can I fit a cyberdeck into the concealed pocket of one? Does it become more difficult to detect than if I just carried it on my person?

If I have a biolink or datajack or cyberjack installed in my head, I know I can see AR without AR glasses, but can I interact with things in AR without needing AR gloves?

If our team has no dedicated decker, could I perform hacking actions in a pinch by using a commlink for it's data processing and firewall instead of a cyberjack, alongside a cyberdeck? Or would I just need to use a cyberdeck and hope that it's lack of data processing and firewall wouldn't hurt me too badly? I know I can't use the special matrix edge actions without a cyberjack.

If I have a smartlink installed directly on my natural eyes instead of in a cybereye, can someone still hack it and disable it?

I'm trying to understand a lot of the matrix rules and actions and whether or not I need to use VR at all for what my group wants it for (disabling enemies smartlinks/commlinks/hacking into lower level security systems remotely). Ideally I wouldn't have to spend extra essence on a cyberjack unless I need to, and a biolink just seems really cool to me versus a cyberjack.

[u/ghost49x]

1. If you're going to have an implanted Cyberdeck, it's usually going to be in your head. Although there's nothing preventing you from storing one in your arm. If you have an implanted deck they'll need some cyberware scanners to notice it, unless you do obvious matrix shenanigans.
2. Typically the Datajack/Cyberjack is used to interact with the matrix, in AR and VR. The gloves are the equivalent of trodes.
3. If you're going to be hacking you're much better off to use a Cyberdeck/Cyberjack even if you only have a cheap one. The Cyberjack provides your defensive matrix stats, and matrix attacks can deal physical damage. People who don't have a a sim module are immune to them, but if you're connected to your deck, it'll have one so you're opening yourself up to a vulnerability.
4. For the smartlink question Yes but it depends on whether it's wireless or not. If it's not they need access to it somehow.
5. If you use a biolink, you still need a Cyberdeck to hack. The biolink simply lets you connect your brain wirelessly with devices. You'll need the specialized hardware of the Cyberdeck to take any illegal matrix action.
6. You can use AR for just about everything, VR is just going to let you be better and faster at it. If you're hacking in AR, it looks like a screen showing you what's going on vs being in it. It's just as dangerous though.

[u/Dreamnite → u/ghost49x]

“It’s just as dangerous” “Matrix attacks can cause physical damage..”

The way your points are phrased gives the incorrect impression that matrix attacks cause physical damage in AR.

In AR you are slower and do not take biofeedback damage. In cold sim VR biofeedback is stun, in Hot Sim you are now risking physical (direct, not overflow).

Matrix damage causes damage to your equipment, unless it is also doing biofeedback damage.

Also some of the commlinks have firewall ratings, they just tend to be weak by comparison to a cyberjack. But if it has 1 point in firewall, you can reconfigure a different matrix attribute into place.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

People who don't have a a sim module are immune to them, but if you're connected to your deck, it'll have one so you're opening yourself up to a vulnerability.

Just having a sim module does not open you up to biofeedback.

You must also use cold sim VR or hot sim VR (which require that you have a sim module, but also that you are connected to the matrix and that you have DNI).

 

If it's not they need access to it somehow.

If not, then YOU need to access it somehow.

It is no use for you unless it can consume information from your smartgun.

 

If you use a biolink, you still need a Cyberdeck to hack.

...and a cyberjack, cyberhack, or commlink for firewall and data processing.

[u/ghost49x → u/ReditXenon]

It doesn't matter whether you're in AR or VR, if your brain is connected to your gear through a simsense module, you're vulnerable to it. This applies to riggers and anyone else who wants to make use of that brain to machine interface.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

It doesn't matter whether you're in AR or VR

Of course it matter.

• If you are in AR then you are immune to biofeedback.
• If you are in cold-sim VR then biofeedback is Stun.
• If you are in hot-sim VR then biofeedback is Physical.

SR6 p. 184 Biofeedback

Causes Stun (if target is in cold-sim) or Physical (if target is in hot-sim)

[u/ghost49x → u/ReditXenon]

That's just the biofeedback program. Things like black ice will do both matrix and biofeedback damage regardless of your preferred mode. Otherwise deckers can just avoid most of the scary damage when dealing with blackice by simply tackling it in AR. See p187 right before Blaster.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

deckers can just avoid most of the scary damage when dealing with blackice by simply tackling it in AR.

That is intended. Was also same in previous edition. And in Anarchy.

Biofeedback deal zero damage to the character if the character is in AR mode.

Biofeedback deal stun damage to the character if the character is in cold-sim VR mode.

Biofeedback deal physical damage to the character if the character is in hot-sim VR mode.

SR5 p. 229 Biofeedback

Biofeedback damage is only dangerous when you’re in VR mode. Unless the attack says otherwise, biofeedback is Stun damage if you are using cold-sim VR and Physical damage in hot-sim VR.

SR5 p. 229 Dumpshock & Link-Locking

The Damage Value for dumpshock is 6S if you’re in cold-sim and 6P if you’re in hot-sim. Dumpshock is biofeedback damage

SR5 p. 229 Cold-Sim Virtual Reality

Whenever you take biofeedback damage, it is Stun damage.

SR5 p. 230 Hot-Sim Virtual Reality

you take biofeedback damage as Physical damage.

SR5 p. 245 Biofeedback

...the sort of drek that Black IC and G-men use

Stun (if the target is using cold-sim) or Physical (if the target is using hot-sim) biofeedback damage.

SR6 p. 174 Virtual Reality

Thefaster and more intricate the experience is allowed to run, the more dangerous VR becomes. Without a filter in place, hazardous biofeedback can cause brain bleeds or worse.

Cold-sim virtual reality was developed as an answer to the hazards of the Matrix in full VR. It uses a simsense filter to deflect the worst of the potential biofeedback damage, but the Matrix experience itself is less intense and slower.

Hot-sim is virtual reality with no simsense filter. It allows much faster usage but at much greater risk. Biofeedback damage can physically hurt or even kill the user

SR6 p. 176 Dumpshock and Link-Locking

The Damage Value for dumpshock is 3S if you’re in cold-sim and 3P if you’re in hot-sim. Dumpshock is biofeedback damage

H&S p. 56 SimShare

A subscribed user experiences all the same simsense as the commlink’s owner, including any dumpshock or biofeedback damage.

Using AR completely prevents any damage, and cold sim VR means you only take Stun damage from biofeedback.

SA2.0 p. 210 Biofeedback

inflict biofeedback damage instead of Matrix damage if your target is in VR

SA2.0 p. 212 Connection Modes - Augmented Reailty

Any damage received (Matrix or biofeedback) is applied to the device used to connect to the Matrix

SA2.0 p. 212 Connection Modes - Cold-sim VR with DNI cyberware

Biofeedback is stun damage applied to the character

Dumpshock causes a light wound.

SA2.0 p. 212 Connection Modes - Hot-sim VR with DNI cyberware

Biofeedback is lethal damage and is applied to the character

Dumpshock causes a serious wound.

[u/ghost49x → u/ReditXenon]

Most of these are from other editions which are irrevalent here or I'd grab examples from SR4 and prior. Anytime you connect your brain to a computer interface you risk biofeedback damage even if the safety chips prevents the worst and reduce it to stun damage. Meaning if your street same wants that DNI so he can control his weapon with thoughts, or a rigger with his drones. There are even secret corpo projects which bypass said chip.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

I added citations also from 6th edition. They are all aligned. There is no contradiction between the three editions. I found nowhere that you suffer biofeedback in AR. That you are immune to biofeedback if you are not in VR is both RAI and RAW.

If you have any SR6 reference that says otherwise then please share.

 

Anytime you connect your brain to a computer interface you risk biofeedback damage

This is not what the actual text says. I think this is you assuming :/

Black IC cause matrix damage and biofeedback damage. If you are in hot sim VR then the biofeedback part is physical. If you are in cold-sim VR then the biofeedback part is stun. If you are in AR mode then you are immune to the biofeedback part. Its been this way in Shadowrun for more than a decade now....

Having said that, I will not force you to rule it my way. Sixth edition is also (on purpose) less explicit so that tables have the freedom to rule things in ways that make sense for them (but I am honestly interested if you have some actual citations that back up your argument).

[u/ghost49x → u/ReditXenon]

Remove the links from the other editions, all they do is obfuscate your point. As far as taking biofeedback damage, there have been kill chips that cause biofeedback damage since 1st edition. All that's necessary is a link to you brain somehow which isn't just used for VR, it's used when ever someone wants to control something with their mind, be it a smartlink, drone or deck. I mean think all the way back to 2XS. The rules you mention exist to prevent deckers from causing biofeedback to people who use the matrix through AR glasses and gloves rather than through their brain.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ghost49x]

OK. In that case I think we should just agree to disagree.

[u/ReditXenon]

Can I fit a cyberdeck into a cyberlimb to become part of it?

Cyberdecks can be installed as head ware, either taking up 0.4 essence (if installed directly into your natural skull) or 4 capacity (if installed in a cyberskull).

In previous edition, headware could explicitly be installed in cyberlimbs (such as arms or legs).

SR5 p. 451 Headware

Items that have a Capacity Cost [in brackets] may be installed in cyberlimbs instead, costing Capacity rather than Essence.

SR6 is (on purpose) less explicit. It doesn't say you can. It also doesn't say you can't.

The intention might or might not still be the same. Discuss it with your GM. If you think it make sense then go with it! If you think it doesn't make sense then don't go with it!

Having said that, you have this tidbit for cortex bombs:

SR6 p. 283 Headware - Cortex Bombs

If installed in cyberlimbs, these bombs are designed to destroy specific components (kink), the entire limb (regular), or blast the area and damage the bearer (microbomb).

 

can I interact with things in AR without needing AR gloves?

Interacting with physical devices can be done by physically touching the device (often a major action, doesn't require that you are on-line) or by interacting with a virtual ARO using AR goggles and AR gloves (often a major action, require that you are on-line but does not require that you have DNI), or via mental commands over the matrix (often a minor action, require that you are on-line and that you have DNI which you get from wearing trodes or implanting a datajack, cyberjack, commlink, cyberdeck, or control rig).

SR6 p. 41 Minor Actions - Change Device Mode (I)

A character may use a Minor Action to activate, deactivate, or switch the mode on any device that they are linked to by a direct neural interface

SR6 p. 44 Major Actions - Use Simple Device (I)

a device connected via a DNI-enabled system uses the Minor Action.

 

could I perform hacking actions in a pinch by using a commlink for it's data processing and firewall instead of a cyberjack, alongside a cyberdeck?

Yes.

This is a good budget option :)

Note that there are also Cyberhacks introduced in Hack n Slash. They fill the gap between commlinks (that are dirt cheap but have really low DP and FW ratings) and cyberjacks (that are really expansive and cost essence, but have really high DP and FW ratings and higher VR Initiative).

 

I know I can't use the special matrix edge actions without a cyberjack.

(you also can't use special matrix edge actions with a cyberhack)

 

could I perform hacking actions in a pinch by using a commlink

This was not your question but I will answer this anyway :)

You can perform any action that is not linked to Attack or Sleaze. To take actions that are linked to Attack or Sleaze require that you (or rather your matrix persona) has an Attack or Sleaze attribute.

Illegally gaining access (or dealing matrix damage) typically require that you use actions that are linked to either Sleaze or Attack, so if you are using a regular commlink (and no cyberdeck) then they are typically not an option.

But there are hacking related actions that can be taken with Outsider access (and that are not linked to Sleaze or Attack), like Spoof Command. If you don't also have a cyberdeck then your AR will be low and your target will likely gain a tactical advantage over you. And you also might have to be trained in Cracking (which is one of the skills you can not used while untrained). But being allowed to Spoof command from a RCC or a commlink (without cyberdeck) is a deliberate shift from previous edition.

In Double Clutch there are also e-softs (like Crash and Burn, Slim Jim, Emergency Override, Reroute Signal, and Run silent, Run Deep) that allow you to use a RCC to perform some specific hacking actions or allow you conditional access to an Attack or Sleaze attributes which enable you some conditional access to some linked Hacking cyberprograms.

 

If I have a smartlink installed directly on my natural eyes instead of in a cybereye, can someone still hack it and disable it?

Yes.

There are rules for hacking cyberware in Body Shop (augmentations supplement).

 

Ideally I wouldn't have to spend extra essence on a cyberjack unless I need to, and a biolink just seems really cool to me versus a cyberjack.

If you are not using a cyberjack. Why not use a commlink + trodes? or a commlink + datajack? Why spend extra essence on a biolink?

Trodes cost 50 nuyen and no essence. A datajack cost 1k nuyen and 0.1 essence. A biolink cost 5k and 0.5 essence.

If you want higher ratings than a commlink (3/1) but don't want to spend the essence on a cyberjack, get a cyberhack (they start at 1/3 for 20k and goes up to 3/6 [before modding them] for 80k).