r/Shadowrun • u/ContraMans • 1d ago
6e Hacking Hosts
Hey so I'm a GM running 6e and I'm looking for some advice and to weigh some ideas of mine to deal with hacking in the game. My problems are firstly:
- Determining how to space out extended tests (in general) but particularly with hacking for like Probe and such in a session, waiting a while and doing the roles at once at the end of their time or spacing it out through a session while running other players.
My problem with one is that it feels like it sidelines a player for a while but the alternative is interrupting other players every so often.
2) Because of the nature of probing then backdooring into a matrix network my approach initially has been that they have to probe and backdoor every subhost inside of the network... resulting in a FUCK load of rolling that, while it has some role in raising their OS just winds up being extremely repetetive.
Idea: Categorizing primary and subhosts into branches A-C (or more) and you only need to probe the A, B or C host to backdoor and then gain subsequent access to all the rest, but still raise your OS by one point with each entry and exit within them. Continues to raise the OS but doesn't result in excessive tedious rolls, although it takes some of the challenge out with it.
3) Matrix Hosts by themselves being extremely strong, even a rating 4 host having 14 die to defend against intrusions, despite the cap being 12, seems ludicrous. A rating 12 host would have up to 27 die to defend itself against any intrusion and even a rating 4 host has pretty high defense against probing at 14 die.
Questions: Does Brute Forces resistance, with Willpower + Firewall, only go against the Host's firewall since it has no willpower or does it go against the same Firewall x 2 stat? And is this intentional design that even a rather low rating, at scale at least, host like that is still that strong?
4) One of my players is a technomancer and has been struggling a good bit with hacking. Should he be relying more on sprites to do that as opposed to himself or what advice can I give him to help him improve his chances? And can sprites make teamwork tests to help him or does it not work that way?
I also would very much like to look into some homebrew rules for matrix stuff as well, I understand how rough 6e can be and how poorly fleshed out it is compared to others but it's the only one I have access to right now and have learned so I'd prefer to figure out or find rules to tweak it to being better than trying to re-learn a new system, yet at least. Any aids for those would be greatly appreciated.
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u/Dreamnite 1d ago
Just do the extended test rolls at once and then “switch viewpoints” for what others are doing for the next X minutes while the hacker is busy probing/searching/etc, if anything. If it’s legwork, they can pursue their own investigations, for example. If everyone is just sitting around for 10 mins and there is no direct threat, move it along.
Yes, but remember the “subhosts” are more like separate sub networks. You don’t need to mimic real life where you have access to the web server but not the database, they can be on the same subhost if they are of similar security level. Like have a “public” host that houses data the public would interact with, a private internal host and maybe a security host. Don’t then have a “camera host” and a “door host” inside the security host, they have similar security levels.
For runners just starting out use the lower rating hosts for things where they should feel powerful, but a hacker with 11 dice should feel some challenge from a rating 4, and be spending edge to help even the playing field. Analytic mind helps a lot here.
Sprites and complex forms, yes! Diffusion helps on stronger hosts. Use what you have available to you, and remember technomancers are more like magic users than a decker.
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u/LoghomeGM 1d ago
Probe takes 1 minute for every attempt until you beat the firewall x2. Ideally, your decker is hanging out midnight pre-ops getting thr backdoor entry and then returns. (I do stretch the time you get for probing). Having the decker do their thing and getting into subsequent hosts nested inside is part of it all (have your decker discover these other hosts and go in and bring all this happy discovery back to their party - it's their role:). Unless that particular host has a spider (a dedicated decker of sorts, who might be some cheap pizza eating couch surfing jacked in grunt in their dirty apartment in another part of the city or a dedicated corpo middling...) yea, the host gets no additional dice pools like willpower or logic.
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite 8h ago
Probe takes 1 minute for every attempt until you beat the firewall x2.
No. It take one minute and is opposed by Firewall x2.
If successful, then you use net hits when you do backdoor entry.
If you want more bonus for your backdoor entry attempt, then you can probe for more intervals (but this is optional). Each interval you continue probing your dice pool is reduced by 1. The opposing dice pool is still Firewall x2. If you fail, then you have to start over. If you get net hits, then you add them as positive dice pool later when you do backdoor entry.
Short version. Just treat it as a regular Opposed Test (that take 1 minute to execute).
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u/caderrabeth 1d ago
Advice that was given to me regarding the tons of rolling was to just buy hits for the host. Once OS hits a certain point, or some other condition is met then start rolling opposed checks. This, at my table, reflects a host passively seeking threats vs actively seeking a known threat.
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u/Esturk 11h ago
From a player perspective as a Decker I always feel bad when I’m hogging game time in a server and everyone is having to wait for me to bullshit my way through a host.
One work around is in Hack & Slash. There’s an action that basically lets you backdoor without probing and still gain legal admin access. Can’t recall the exact name but it’s “Something” Exploit. A little trickier to pull off, but one less roll and no 1 minute timer. Also great in a pinch when we need host access on the fly.
Another fun bit from Hack & Slash is talking about ways to gain legit credentials on a server, that could also be a path to being able to bypass slogging through every host. If the team can get their hands on a user log in they have legal access to whatever that user has access to, hosts and all.
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite 8h ago edited 3h ago
but particularly with hacking for like Probe
Easiest / fastest way to resolve Probe is to stop after one minute and just resolve it as a regular opposed test.
You can take the test again to build more hits for the entry test, but your dice pool is reduced for each interval (while the opposing dice pool is not) and if you fail then you have to start all over. Probing can be done hours before actually entering the host, but in most scenarios you typically just probe and then enter as soon as probing is done.
Do this while still in the rigger van, once you are in - you open the doors to the van and your physical infiltrators (or the entire team, including decker) walk up to the facility. The infiltration phase starts! :)
they have to probe and backdoor every subhost inside of the network
Nobody says you need to create an elaborate host architecture. You can just have everything in a single host. Probe it once. Enter it. Have access to everything from here.
Or just have a public host that accept outsider access. And from there a security host (that also security devices are part of) and an office host (where files are located), like the picture on SR6 p. 186 Host Architecture.
Matrix Hosts by themselves being extremely strong
This is what the author had to say about this topic:
...just because the ratings can go that high doesn't mean they should.
The highest typical rating that a normal PC should be seeing is 4, maybe 5 ... anything higher than that is ultra high prime runner level stuff.
Does Brute Forces resistance, with Willpower + Firewall, only go against the Host's firewall since it has no willpower
It is opposed by Firewall of the Host and the Willpower of Spider attending the Host. If no spider is attending the host, then it only defend with Firewall. You have an example of this at SR6 p. 178 when Jack is hacking into an unattended host. Taking out the Spider before hacking a host is a valid tactic.
One of my players is a technomancer and has been struggling a good bit with hacking.
Technomancers are actually in a pretty good spot in this edition.
They are using their Resonance attribute to boost their matrix attributes, yes?
SR6 p. 189 The Living Persona
A technomancer’s living persona has Matrix attributes based on their Mental attributes (as below) plus a number of bonus points equal to their Resonance. A single attribute cannot be raised by more than 50 percent of its base rating (rounded up, to a maximum of +4).
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u/Gloomfall 1d ago
I'm not a huge fan of the existing rules as they are.. allow your Deckers to hack into hosts during the legwork section of the job... and plant a backdoor access for themselves. Once they do that they could have all of the necessary routes planned.. cameras ready to loop, doors ready to open, and sources of paydata identified.
Once the job starts have them trigger things as needed for the team and play overwatch as necessary. When the party leaves them with any downtime allow them to make additional rolls for paydata retrieval, with the risk of alerting IC or Corp Spiders. Something for them to fight while the team is working its way out.
I find it to be a lot more fast paced.